Second victim dies in Florida murder with local ties

It's really a shame. But I'm scratching my head a bit. Looking at the folks he was selling guns to, what was he thinking they were going to do with them? Go duck hunting maybe?

Scott, the transaction was legal. I thought the same thing. But watch the press conference. It certainly cast a different (ironic) lite on the case. A quick caveat, perhaps the sale of firearms should be done at your local Sheriff`s Office? Might be an inconvenience, but also could vett out sinister deeds, such as this? Just a thought. Anyone who is contemplating evil acts, doesn't want to go to a local Sheriff`s Office??

Scott,is there a look that signals someone is a killer,or a criminal,or are you just seeing color? Are you also saying people of color don't duck hunt?If you aren't judging them by color,could you elaborate on your comment,I mean if there is a certain look that criminals have,please share,then we will all know what to look for.Don't get me wrong,I feel for the families of the victims,and pray justice will be served,but for the life of me,I couldn't make any sense from your comment without wondering if it was stereotyping,or racist,or that you know something some of us don't.Which is it Scott?

I don’t see anything about Mr. Jackson that would lead me to believe he would been seen other than another American looking to exercise his Second Amendment right and acquire a fire arm for self-protection or otherwise lawful use.

Frank, you're kidding right? Perhaps you need to read the initial reports [again?]

http://www.thebatavian.com/billie-owens/alexander-native-killed-in-home…

http://www.thebatavian.com/comment/98524#comment-98524

Brian,it has nothing to do with any report,I was asking Scott if there is something in a persons looks that tells us they are criminals,that would be a very useful tool.

Perhaps this report will shed a bit more light...
http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article194132144.html

How do I lookup past comments ?

Billie there is no one comment I'm interested in I just like to read all of them !

Scott, I don't believe your comment was racial, however, it could have a resemblance to the Sullivan Act of 1911. Big Tim Sullivan of Tammany Hall fame, exercised Jim Crow influence with Blacks or any non-WASP citizens. New York was (at that time) a "May Issue" state, as opposed to a "Shall Issue" state. When this victim sold those handguns (Legally) I am sure he could not foresee the future. He also could not see the other two creeps, because they were still in Mobile Alabama. That is why I was wondering about transactions being done at your local Sheriff`s Office??

No one has found issue with FEMA using private contractors whose background checks (or lack thereof) couldn't detect a prior arrest record? The two contractors are Vanguard EM and PB Disaster Services. Vanguard of Winchester, VA advertises for employees on Facebook and conducts "Training Roadshows." PB, coincidentally of Winchester, VA, also hires via internet. Reviews from employees note that the work is low paying, stressful and cite large turnovers. Why Winchester, VA? FEMA has a new headquarters there.

Frank, is there something wrong with stereotyping or being racist ? I hope not but I'm in New York so there may be a law against it........ clue me in ....

Robert.
As the comment "list" changes every time a new comment is added, the "list" only contains about the latest 15 or so. If your goal is to read EVERY comment made, I'd suggest you find someone willing to pay you to do nothing except read the comments.

Otherwise, you have two choices:
(a) Scroll through thebatavian, looking at the bottom of every article, to find out if a comment (or, multiple comments) have been made about the article. Click on articles which note that comments about it were made, then, click on the article. All comments made concerning THAT article will be there. Or,
(b) Type a word that was used IN the original article into the "search box", and search that way. Using this method, the more "unique" word you choose to search for will greatly reduce the search results. Example: If you were looking for an article that was written about Elm Street, and typed "street" into the search box, you'll probably find multiple thousands of articles that used "street" somewhere in the article. But, if you typed "Elm" in the search box, only articles that used Elm should appear.
NOTE: Typing a word that was in the COMMENT, but, not in the article itself, doesn't work. Which is too bad. Otherwise, when someone made their comments, they could just type a word like "marsupial" in the comment. Then it'd be easy to search for.

CM, they do background checks. Very efficient ones I might add. It has to be done as it's a Federal job. No, it's not a "road show" either. It's not the "good ole boys and girls" who always get hired after all.

Many of you have heard the news that VEM will be starting the 2018 Training Roadshow next week. Due to space and resource limitations, we have had to restrict attendance for the first few classes to Invitation Only. The invitations were prioritized based on Production and Quality Results from the most recent disasters in Texas and Florida. Due to the overwhelming response to this event, VEM is planning additional events with invitations forthcoming. Thank you again for your positive responses. We look forward to seeing all of you soon! https://www.facebook.com/VanguardEM/?hc_ref=ARTALGwvAJWJP1pSm9zWS2v9mjl…

I can't believe there is implication, in some of the previous posts, that it is wrong to consider race and stereotype in the assessment of these murders. Once again we have a situation where 3 young black males rob and kill white people and yet dimwits continue to put blinders on and play the race card PC BS. The statistics are indisputable... black people are 13% of the US population and account for more than 2 to 1 - murders against white people vs white against black. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, and 53 percent of gun murders of officers in 2016. There is an obvious disproportional disregard and insolence for life of others among the black community, and this outrage is just another example. And you want to play games with "now don't point fingers, and don't make judgements"...

And then there are imbeciles who say things like "is there a look that signals someone is a killer, or a criminal, or are you just seeing color?"... or "I don’t see anything about Mr. Jackson that would lead me to believe he would been seen other than another American looking to exercise his Second Amendment right and acquire a fire arm for self-protection or otherwise lawful use."... "I was asking... if there is something in a persons looks that tells us they are criminals"... Research the data it's readily available.

Having been friends with Reiss since our high school days, he was always the most friendly, open, and trusting person anyone could know. I can only imagine that this was the case when Reiss first dealt with the perp and sold him a couple guns. Reiss was being himself... and new friend.

You can give these 3 scumballs the benefit of the doubt if you want. But all 3 had prior arrests. Sure some will counter with "how would Reiss know at the time". To which I say, he probably wouldn't and all the more reason to be leery, but that was not his style... and he paid an awful price for being too friendly. I'll will continue to use my life's experience with society [the good and bad], together with common sense, my gut feeling, and stereotyping, labeling, profiling... call it whatever you choose. In my world those 3 punks looked like the type to be very wary of. I choose to protect myself, and I don't much care if I do it in a way that pleases anyone else or not.

Brian, there is no implication about it.

It's immoral to judge somebody merely by the color of their skin. Flat out just wrong.

When Mr. Reiss met Mr. Jackson, as far as we know, he knew only two things about him. He was black and he was working with FEMA. Only one of those fact points are relevant to judging anything about him. Hint: It's not the color of his skin.

To suggest that somebody should distrust or dislike somebody purely because of the color of his skin is flat out racism. To call it following your gut is an excuse to be biased against people because the color of their skin. That isn't anything to be proud of.

Racism is pernicious and has no place in a civil America. There's nothing PC about being against racism. That's just being a decent human being.

Howard, immoral or not, sometimes a person has to use whatever means he has to survive.... years ago I was confronted by 3 non-white individuals. I knew from prior experience and knowledge that the non-whites were out to harm me and I did nothing. You may call it whatever you want and you may tell other people they are wrong for feeling the way I did. One of those thugs had a stick and together with his pals they tore me to pieces. I had a broken arm from a defensive move as well as gashes in my face and back of my head. I was knocked out as they took a stick and boots to my body. I did make it home to see my skull in a mirror.. When ever I see non-whites hanging together, I go back to that day, and I do what I must to avoid it from happening again.. so go ahead and throw the racist crap at me and call me what you will but if I have to profile or stereotype to survive I will for I won't be caught in a situation like that one again.

thanx Ed

so I guess I just can't scroll back day by day to read comments it that right ?

Sorry, Robert, no.

If I ever have time to do all the development I want, I could imagine such a feature. It's kind of what I have in mind.

David, The only time I've been violently attacked was in junior high -- twice. Once by a group of black youths who stole my lunch money. Another time was by a black kid during a basketball game.

But that doesn't make me think blacks are any more violent than whites. Empirical evidence tells me otherwise. Science means more to me than my personal experiences.

More than half the violent crimes in the U.S. are committed by whites.

Violence knows no color.

We're all human prone to the same failings and faults as every other human. It's not a matter of skin color. It's part and parcel of the human condition.

If there is any variable that makes one class of people more violent than others, its economic, not skin color. Poor people, people who are far enough down the economic latter that they don't have much to lose, are statistically more likely to commit crime, even violent crime, than people who have a seat at the economic table.

There is no scientific, fact-based way to make any excuse for expecting a random black man to be more threatening than a random white man. There are far too many good black men to even hope to make such an assumption valid.

Look how many white men have committed mass shootings in the past few years. Why doesn't that make you fear white men?

By the accounts I'm reading here, people are saying they would be afraid of my nephew, a black man with long dreadlocks who also happens to be a disabled U.S. Navy veteran and one of the gentlest men you'll ever meet and has no criminal record.

This is supposed to be a country where people assessed by what they do not who they are.

Howard, once again you are spinning in circles. It is not immoral to judge [def: form a conclusion about] someone by their racial makeup if there is factual documentation to support a conclusion. In the USA it is documented fact [FBI - Expanded Homicide Data Table] that murder by a black person against a white person is almost 2 1/3 times more prevalent than the reverse. The total number of black and white Americans [not including Hispanics] is approx 244 million, and of that total the black folks are less than 18% and yet they murder whites 2 1/3 times to each time a white person murders a black person, and you want to tell me that there is no substantive cause for being apprehensive based on race... ??? Well, I don't wear rose colored glasses like you do.

I'm not saying, or even suggesting that I am wary of a black stranger and not a white stranger... I am wary of ALL strangers. It's a sad commentary on our society and world, but it's reality. But more and more the progressive thrust is that profiling is racism. This deception thrives on ignorance and a willful blindness to the demographics of crime. The seeming disproportionate numbers of arrests and incarceration isn't due to some sinister plot to lock up minorities... it's because those minorities do way more than their share of the crime. And I haven't even brought the black on black murder rate as compared to white on white into the picture. I'd like to agree, let's not talk about race and let's just focus on criminal activity... but then that brings us back to race, because crime does not discriminate and chose who it wants to blame as the perpetrator, but quite the opposite, the perpetrator chooses to do the crime. And the numbers speak the cold hard truth.

Here's an example of your "civil America"... it appears that Pres Obama [the anti-racism Pres] didn't help much with improving, or even maintaining that civility... but no one dares call him a racist like they do Pres Trump.
'Interracial homicides – black people who killed whites and whites who killed blacks – climbed to their highest levels last year [2015] since the election of President Barack Obama almost eight years ago, even as the proportion of so-called black-on-black killings dipped, according to the latest national crime figures from the FBI... The statistics show 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year [2015]... Conversely, 229 black lives were taken by white killers last year [2015]' - US News & World Report

You use the joke of an argument that "More than half the violent crimes in the U.S. are committed by whites" Well no kidding, there are 5 times as many whites in the US than blacks, and that's not counting the Hispanic white people. The population of whites outnumber blacks in the US 201M vs 43.4M. And according to research by James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University, "Using the homicide count, whites and blacks were arrested in about equal numbers. But cast as a rate, the results shift dramatically. Black men were about seven times more likely than white men to be arrested for murder. That would be a rate of 33 murders for every 100,000 black men, compared to 4.7 for every 100,000 whites."

So I'd say the numbers above should get your attention. But you can continue to wear those rose colored glasses.

CM, Vanguard Emergency Management:
https://www.vanguardem.com/recruiting/

FEMA What I have done for over 9 years! You have to get a security clearance, background and fingerprints. You also have to update every 3 years. It's kind of like the military only no uniforms, just shirts and a bunch of sleepless nights is what I dealt with.

There is a WORLD of difference between Vanguard and FEMA

I've taken issue with an sub-contractor before, when a rookie thinks they can do the supervisors job better. I've been to fires, floods, hurricanes and in which all of them I've worked 2 out of the many, I can remember there being one guy who was very critical of women being on the job. That just went against him when we found him smoking dope with one of the locals when he went AWOL for 4 hours.

Impressive stats, Brian, but nothing there mitigates the fact that put a white man and a black man next to each other you have no basis for judging which individual might some day commit a violent crime, even if you were to account for how they are dressed.

My point about more than half of violent crime committed by whites doesn't ignore the fact there are more whites. It makes the point that a lot of whites commit a lot of crimes. You don't deny that, do you?

There is simply no moral, ethical, logical, reasonable way to justify judging somebody merely by the color of their skin.

Well,everyone but Scott is making noise here.HMMMMM.......I'm really not surprised that racism exists,look at the bigot people elected president.

Frank, you've got your right to your opinion. However, bigot? I'd say he may be a tad naive about my ancestors culture. Bigot? no

Brian - kind of hard for President Obama to fight racism in this country when bigots were protesting with guns outside events he had prior to even his inauguration. Minor missteps he may have made were quickly corrected (and, try to imagine the current office holder doing this, apologized for).

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/268964.Jesse_Jackson

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson

Howard #27 "There is simply no moral, ethical, logical, reasonable way to justify judging somebody merely by the color of their skin."

Sorry, but you are wrong. I repeat: "Black men were about seven times more likely than white men to be arrested for murder. That would be a rate of 33 murders for every 100,000 black men, compared to 4.7 for every 100,000 whites."

Tim #30: So tell us, at those events with "bigots carrying guns" protesting Obama, how many people did they shoot? How many cop cars did they destroy? How many private properties did the break and enter and set on fire???

This debate like most on the Batavian is going to accomplish nothing and I'm finished wasting time with it. Everyone mostly just spouts their unfounded opinion, I try and do a little research and provide some statistics to support my position and it just falls on deaf ears, blind eyes, and hard heads.

Richmond's post #31 sums it up very well.

I'm out.

Brian - thank you for not wasting any more of our time. ;-)

Repeat the same stat all you like, Brian.

It doesn't change a more important fact: The majority of blacks, even young black men, do not ever commit any violent crime in their life.

You are using the sins of a few to judge and discount the virtue of the many.

The odds of you standing before a random black man who might do you harm are slim to none.

As I said before, violence knows no race boundary. It's also rare.

There is no excuse for looking at a black man you know nothing about other than the color of his skin and assuming he's a criminal. None at all.

The Jesse Jackson quote proves nothing other than like any human he's subject to the same cognitive biases we all must struggle against.

When a decent human being knows that something he or she has said is being interpreted as racist, or sexist, or stupid, that person sincerely apologizes and clarifies IF the comment was misinterpreted or unintentional. The racist squatter in the White House has never apologized for or clarified ANYthing he has said, or tweeted. The “locker room talk” fake apology doesn’t count; he has subsequently ridiculously denied his own image and voice.

He lies every time he opens his mouth or posts his tweets, with impunity. He’s a coward and a bully. If I didn’t despise him I’d pity how the KGOP is using him, and how his mail order trophy wives have used him, and no one apparently cares enough to get him help he so obviously needs. He’s been nothing but a vacuous puppet his whole life.

Of course he hates women, and people of color, and Muslims, and Mexicans, and liberals, and Democrats, and on and on and on…hate reflects on him every time he looks in the mirror. All he can do is deflect.

White male privilege lacks critical thinking skills and empathy. The quote attributed to Jesse Jackson says there is “nothing more painful” to him; it doesn’t justify your racism like you think it does.

Thanx Howard keep up the good work you do and I will look forward to your continued progress

Thanks, Robert. I appreciate the support.

Howard, regarding your Post # 35, and mine: I’m familiar with the term “cognitive” as the mental processes of perception, memory, judgment, and reasoning. I agree with you everyone is biased to a degree, however; my link to a quote showed a private side of the man I’ve never seen before. I was impressed that he admitted to it, and nothing more.

I don’t always agree with his politics, and I wouldn’t call Jessie Jackson’s admission cognitive bias. Cognitive biases are systematic patterns of deviation from norm or rationality in thought and judgment.

One example of Cognitive Bias is the tendency a person or people to believe they are less biased than other people, based on their gender or ethnicity, and to identify more cognitive bias in others while excluding themselves.

Another of Cognitive Bias" is the tendency of a person to interpret others' words as racist and sexist, even when those words are ambiguous or benign.