Rather than put consolidation to a vote of the people in November, the Consolidation Study Committee is asking governing bodies for both town and city to establish a joint charter commission to draw up a document that would outline what a merged municipality would look like.
Under the new proposal, there wouldn't be a public vote on consolidation until November 2011. Committee members said this would allow both city and town residents to be fully informed about consolidation before voting.
When the committee made its initial report on consolidation two months ago, the plan was to have a yes-or-no vote in both the city and the town in November of this year. If consolidation was approved in both jurisdictions, then a charter commission would be formed.
Now Town Supervisor Greg Post said he prefers a clean-slate approach to create a whole new governing agency for the Batavia community.
"We have an opportunity to sit down with a clean piece of paper and say what works and doesn't work for Batavia," Post said. "We've been given an opportunity that is priceless. People talk about what doesn't work with government, but we have an opportunity to sit down and create one that does work."
But Batavia City Councilman Bill Cox sounded a more cautious, "not so fast" alert during Wednesday night's meeting at the Batavia Town Hall. He's concerned that the consolidation study so far hasn't produced enough actual numbers of hard-cost savings for taxpayers. Plus, he distrusts how much the study committee seems to be leaning on $820,000 a year in grants from Albany for a consolidated government.
Cox is concerned that the biggest city expense -- police and fire personnel -- hasn't been addressed by the study committee.
"Those topic are taboo from being part of the discussion and when you eliminate those two cost centers from the discussion, then the opportunity for cost savings is greatly reduced," Cox said.
City Manager Jason Molino, who served on the study committee, took issue with what he saw as Cox's characterization that the committee had not done its work by omitting police and fire savings in its report.
Molino said the committee made a decision not to delve into that topic because it's really a policy decision that a new governing body will need to address. It's a question that goes beyond mere cost savings: what level of service will residents in the new government want?
The study committee recommends that the consolidated Batavia (and we're assuming it will still be "Batavia") should be a city. As a city, there are advantages both in cost savings, grants from the state and more sales tax authority.
As for how the new city would govern, the committee is recommending an at-large elected mayor and six council wards. There would be one ward for the current town, one for the current city with the remaining four wards split between the town and the city.
That is, if the proposed charter commission likes those recommendations. The eight-member commission (four town residents and four city residents) could decide to go in a completely different direction.
Here's the recommended timetable for consolidation:
August 2009: City and town governing bodies pass a local law to create a joint charter commission. This would require a public hearing. Together, the city and town would apply for a grant to pay for the commission's legal work.
September 2009: Town and city begin interviewing potential charter committee members.
October 2009: Commission members selected.
November 2009: Commission members appointed and begin work.
December 2010: Commission completes work on a new charter.
Spring 2011: City and town governing bodies accept charter and ask state Legislature to place charter on the ballot at the general election in 2011.
Late Summer / Fall 2011: City and town hold public hearings on proposed charter.
November 2011: City and town hold separate votes. The charter must pass in both jurisdictions.
2012: If passed, 2012 is a transition year, preparing for the merger.
November 2012: Election of a mayor and ward representatives (if this form of government is recommended by charter commission).
Jan. 1, 2013: New merged municipality is born.
UPDATE: Download PDF of Consolidation Press Release.
i think we should do as thay
i think we should do as thay do down south, Consolidation of all towns and city under county.seems to work for them.
Bill, You are right.
Bill,
You are right.
I'd oppose that. What you
I'd oppose that. What you get then is one large, dysfunctional government. Bigger is not better. It's much, much worse. Smaller governments work better. They're more representative. One of the chief problems this country has is too much big government, too much power evolved to states and to the feds and not enough local control. Rolling everything up into one bigger local government isn't going to solve that problem. It will only make it worse. Same goes for schools. Each individual town should retain its right to self determination.
Large government? The whole
Large government? The whole county has roughly 50,000 people, that would not even make a large town. What is the right size of government? How many politicians per square mile is right for you Howard?
People wonder why this area has festered for so long. The tribal mentality has created an over bearing system of waste and redundant government. Look around there are too many school districts, councils, town boards and fire departments drowning us. I realize it’s a waste of breath on my part because; the money from this waste fills the pockets of those in power. Wake up people, your undoing is of your own creation.
Why a change in direction?
Why a change in direction? Maybe people are seeing through all the smoke and mirrors that have been presented thus far so the committee has to go down a different path. Even though everyone will now know the rules before they vote I’m still skeptical that this will have serious financial impact on the Town’s people in the future if it passes.
Each community is a distinct
Each community is a distinct community. It should have it's own government, whether its 10 people, 100 people or 100,000 people. It would greatly change the nature of these towns to roll them up into a consolidated government. Having spent some time in Wyndotte County, 100,000 pop, I've seen how dysfunctional their consolidated government is, how dissatisfied the towns people are with having lost control of their towns.
We're in a crisis in this country because our communities have become less and less cohesive, more and more power has flowed to the federal government. We can't afford to do more damage to our communities, to take steps that diminish involvement and caring. To eliminate these town boards, the town fire departments, the town school boards would do just that -- and for what, cost savings? I doubt there would be any more cost savings, and over time, ore spending as the larger, less accountable government became more and more removed from the people, as fewer and fewer people cared what was going on on a daily basis. It doesn't matter whether its 60,000 people or 100,000 or 1 million, disenfranchise people and they pay less attention, care less. I see no benefit and much damage to a single county government.
Howard, there is no sense is
Howard, there is no sense is debating this again. You look at government as your dream of Americana. I look at it as a noose around my neck. We will never agree about this. It also doesn’t matter. No one is going to give up their little bit of power in this county anyway. I’ll get off my stump and go about my business earning money to pay my taxes now… thank you..
Howard, I agree totally,
Howard,
I agree totally, smaller government works better and the people get better representation. So why consolidate the Town and City into one “bigger” government. If it’s about savings there are a lot of things that can be done through sharing services that would cut costs.
Charlie, government is a
Charlie, government is a noose around your neck, mine, too, which is why making it bigger makes no sense.
Robert, I'm still undecided about one Batavia. I see pluses and minuses on the size issue. It's not quite the same as taking away Corfu or Elba's self-determination. There is much the town and city of Batavia have in common and many shared interests. I'm just not convinced, like Bill Cox, that the real cost savings is there. I don't consider grants from Albany to be cost savings. That's just perpetuating Albany's big government power. Let's see what the real potential cost savings is, without any concern for sacred cows, and then decide if that's the right direction to go in. Maybe the new elected leaders won't want to take all of those steps, but at least let's see what the potential savings and impacts are instead of putting it off until after consolidation.
To put a finer point on it: The debate, study and consideration about police and fire costs should happen before consolidation, not after. What could the cost savings be and is it the right thing to do?
Also, there needs to be more discussion about the tier system. There is some inherent unfairness in it for city businesses competing against the chain stores in the town. Are the tiers as proposed really the right thing, and should the tiers be put in place indefinately?
Howard, your use of the terms
Howard, your use of the terms “bigger” and “smaller” is backwards.
Smaller = less politicians and money for government
Bigger = What we have now, government everywhere.
ges that's funny, taxes are
ges that's funny, taxes are lot lower down south, i know there is no snow removal but taxes are tons lower under county government, wake up Howard, we are taxed to death here.NYS is going to be a ghost town if things don't change soon.
Charlie, Bigger = less
Charlie,
Bigger = less representation, more voters per individual elected leader. More staff. More middle management. More costs.
Smaller = More representation per voter, and representation equal to contiguous geographical boundaries, psychic sense of community.
William, taxes are lower in other states because state government and school spending isn't out of control. It has nothing to do with consolidated municipal government. Fix Albany and you'll fix taxes. Robbing people of their local representation isn't going to lower your taxes. And it will likely increase them with even less say-so from you.
Howard, I again agree with
Howard, I again agree with you but it sounds to me that the consolidation committee is done talking about the savings or lack of and just want people to vote on the new rules the appointed charter commission will draft up. Hopefully there is more discussion on “True” savings and maybe some public forums for both the Town and City residents to discuss issues.
It would be interesting to
It would be interesting to find out the total number of employees of all the towns and villages and the city of batavia and also the county..What do they add up to..When as Charlie states the county total population is 50,000.What is the ratio..How many people does it take to oversee Genesse County..
Charlie, following your
Charlie, following your logic, why don't we just eliminate town, city, village and county governments throughout New York and just have Albany? Heck, why stop there, let's do away with all the state capitols and just have Washington? Wouldn't that lead to less government under your logic?
Howard, we are not that far
Howard, we are not that far off in our thinking but, it is my strong belief that County government should be the smallest form of government. The state needs to be reined in so that our county governments can direct funds where they are needed. I don’t buy your perception of Americana with all these little tiny boards spending our hard earned money being the best thing for our development. Our county government isn’t “out of control” or “out of touch” with people. They seem to keep spending in line, why should we fear our county government as you say?
These communities in the South are whooping our pants because they don’t have all these small town boards feeding on people. We in New York think we know better, we don’t. Howard, have no fear; things will not change in this state. We are New Yorkers and we LOVE government!
Charlie, there's no doubt the
Charlie, there's no doubt the Genesee County government is well run. But that's no guarantee that the consolidated government that might replace it would be as good, or that it would remain as good, especially as people drift away from interest in local government because they feel less represented.
As for the South -- the issue there isn't consolidated government, it is State government that welcomes and encourages business, not a government -- like Albany -- that is hostile to it. Look at how the NYSPA jerks around businesses trying to move into the state. So the comparison to the south when it comes to consolidation -- and I'm not even conceding that much consolidation has gone on there -- doesn't hold water. There are a lot of other factors at work.
There is also some degree of local government getting in the way of business, but in Genesee County, all of the complaints seem pointed at the City of Batavia, a bigger government entity. A consolidated county government would take over the role of the city as it pertains to business -- there's no guarantee at that point that it wouldn't inherit the same problems that currently exist in the city. I just don't see consolidation as a magic wand that makes all problems go away.
why are they putting the vote
why are they putting the vote off until 2011? It already looks like the town will vote no. Is this so they can sweeten the deal for town residents. Why spend all the time and money on this if it looks like it is not wanted? To me it looks like they are trying to make this look more appealing to town residents or find a way around the fact that the Town does not go for this Idea.
The only way you get savings
The only way you get savings is to cut public jobs...Where are all the job cuts in this Consolidation..If not why even bother with all this.........
Government isn’t perfect.
Government isn’t perfect. Isn’t democracy the quest to form a “more” perfect union? What we have in NY is government out of control. It is squandering our future and lowering our quality of life. It takes resources from our county governments and imposes itself.
Howard, as for the complaints you mentioned. The city of Batavia isn’t a bigger government entity; there are only 15,000 people in the city. It has always been my belief that the services that the city provides are unaffordable for the people of the city to bear in the future. Paying for those services has made our community unable to compete with other communities for jobs and business, hence our decline. The long term costs of keeping our service level will also rise in the next 10 to 20 years to the point where we will hit a financial brick wall. We in Batavia will not be alone; this will happen to every community in the state as well.
This little dream of Americana with its small little governments under every rock will be our undoing.
Howard, what are you talking
Howard, what are you talking about the county is well run?
genesee county and every other county in western NY are run like job shops.
You think you really need all these Departments and Programs. Click on the tabs it just keeps getting worse.
http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/index.html
Is the county the number 1 employer in the county?
Anyone see a problem with that. Most of the population are employed by the government then they complain about taxes. But everyone always wants a raise. What the fizzizzel Howizzel.
Charlie, in Erie County isn't
Charlie, in Erie County isn't there some talk of eliminating the county government as unneeded an inefficient?
Batavia is bigger than Elba.
This isn't an Americana thing. This is a common sense thing. Smaller is better. Bigger destroys quality of life. Power needs to be devolved to the smallest units as possible, the neighborhood level if possible.
Power to the people!
Power to the people!
Smaller governments mean more
Smaller governments mean more duplication of services and unbearable long term costs for all those people on the government payroll.
Richard is right about this one. Most people in NY earn their living or have friends or family who earn their living from government. There is no stopping the free fall, New Yorkers LOVE and are dependent on large government.
Consolidation seems to mean
Consolidation seems to mean shifting of services. Same people, new bosses, and you know how that goes with government -- eventually, more of them. There may be good reasons to consolidate the Batavias, but so far, cost savings on personnel doesn't seem to be among them. I doubt it would work that way either on a countywide basis. People would be asked to give up their local control for only a more onerous and expensive government.
"Most people in NY earn their
"Most people in NY earn their living or have friends or family who earn their living from government. There is no stopping the free fall, New Yorkers LOVE and are dependent on large government."
I certainly hope that is your tongue in your cheek
Charlie how many jobs will
Charlie how many jobs will this cut ..I'm for it if it cuts
payroll size ..But if payrolls stay the same what is the sense..just to get more money back from the state..Because thats what it seems like..
Bud, yes most of tongue is in
Bud, yes most of tongue is in my cheek.
There is no one who is going to talk about the payroll cuts that would come from consolidated government. The mobs would come out with torches in hand.
Also i thought that if the
Also i thought that if the Charter commiitte wants that to go up for a vote than this consolidation plan can't..So wasn't that more of the reason why this isn't moving forward..
Let's listen to Greg Post and
Let's listen to Greg Post and take the time to create a plan with a clean slate....get rid of the old town bullies and move this city forward!!
Batavia's potential is great....now, let's realize it!.....CHANGE!!....and Howard- Bigger is better when you have the right people in place to make things work!
Do you really think that all
Do you really think that all these departments and programs are necessary?
http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/index.html
David So bigger tyranny is
David
So bigger tyranny is better than smaller? Maybe the right person will be the future politician than bragged the other day that he only raised the school taxes $800,000.00
in one year when the enrollment and test scores continue to decline. Maybe the right person is the one that if he and his Council Members talk about the cost savings (payroll cuts)that the taxpayers (the mob with torches)might have an opinion one way or another. There is no right person, there are only people that find nothing wrong with impoverishing people that have no use for any of these services.
Terry, don't forget that
Terry, don't forget that impoverishing people that have no use for any of these services creates layers and layers of useless government programs and jobs.
Programs and jobs that will
Programs and jobs that will have never solved there intended problem and can never get smaller or cheaper
Someone needs to step up like
Someone needs to step up like the terminator
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12454979
Should just leave it alone!
Should just leave it alone! Who started this idea?
While I don't know which
While I don't know which government is better for this area, big or small, I would say that Batavia needs some serious change. Is the problem the government itself? I don't think anyone really knows that, though its nice to have something to blame. I moved to this area in 2005 and have lived in many others and I don't think Batavia is terrible; however, it does have its short comings. First, there are few employers that offer careers but many dead end jobs. This really stifles everyone's growth, including that of the city itself. Also, it doesn't seem like the services Batavia offers are evaluated for efficiency. Annually, or at least biannually these services should be evaluated to determine whether or not they should stay or if there is a more effective method in providing these services. In addition, I have heard little of a Mayor or City Council or Town Hall meetings to hear from the residents of Batavia. I see more and more houses for sale everyday, but do we know why everyone is leaving? While I love a city that is aesthetically pleasing, money has been spent somewhat carelessly-such as the Ellicot St. bricklaying. My father was a foreman on this project and I know how much it cost Batavia. Who is making these decisions? It ought to be the tax payers. I think many of the issues Batavia is facing is due to the lack of involvement of Batavians, not due to lack of interest, but lack of opportunity.
The simple fact is that
The simple fact is that federal, state, county, city, and town departments, services, programs and jobs need to be reduced and/or eliminated - let em bring out the torches Charlie I said it. There are not enough private sector jobs, so people leave. Then the remaining population becomes more and more dependent on government programs and jobs, but the system breaks down when you don't have enough people to tax and you can't raise taxes anymore to pay for the all the government programs, services and jobs. New York is the next California.
Just to set the record
Just to set the record straight Genesee Counties population is more like 60,000. I do agree with Robert there are a lot more ways to save tax money than consolidation. I have said right along sharing services will save more money than consolidation. How about health insurance. If all the municipalities in Genesee County got together and put their employees in one insurance plan, either self insured or private, money on premiums could be saved and a very good benefits plan could come out of it. Each town in the county and the county have different plans and each plan and union agreement varies widely. Some employees pay toward their premiums,as I do, and some pay none,(tax payer picks up the whole bill. By the way ask your neighbor in the private sector chances are they pay toward premium). I am glad to see this plan slow down and have more thought put into it. Maybe in the mean time a sharing plan will develope which will show even more cost savings than consolidation. I just can't see how combining two governing boards into one could fairly represent constituants in both a rural and urban setting.
Gary's reference to urban and
Gary's reference to urban and rural reminds me of something -- in moving here, the idea of City, Town, Village governments was very new to me. The fact that there was a Village of Pittsford and a Town of Pittsford seemed really odd to me.
Also, the concept of county government is very different in New York than California.
In California, you have incorporated areas (cities) and unincorporated areas (governed by County Supervisors). The county has no responsibility, expense or revenue related to incorporated areas. So, County = rural, city = urban, or at least a population center. Though, in, say, San Diego County, some place like Elba probably wouldn't be incorporated. It would be a rural community governed by the county.
Not advocating anything here, just throwing out a different concept of local government. It was a concept that made sense to me when I lived in California, but it was the only thing I knew almost my entire life (until I moved to New York).
My first real understanding
My first real understanding of incorporated and unincorporated was in the south.
We happened upon a beautiful home, well manicured lawn, and obviously owned by someone with the finances to maintain it. Directly across the road was a shanty (no other way to describe it)so run down it looked as if a good strong wind would take it away. The laundry hanging on lines between two trees in the front of this house gave evidence of people living there.
As we traveled we saw other well maintained homes, then hovels or poorly kept small business buildings. I learned that the area was unincorporated with no zoning laws.
That pretty much sums up
That pretty much sums up incorporated vs. unincorporated, Bea. Same thing in San Diego. One of the big struggles the City of Santee had was code enforcement. Santee was newly incorporated and many of the residents didn't understand why they could no longer store broken down cars in their front yards.
Maricopa County, Arizona is
Maricopa County, Arizona is where Phoenix is located. I'm sure development has addressed the issue, but when I lived there in the 90's, I bet half the county was unincorporated. And it wasn't always a case of rural areas. You would find 1 or 2 mile stretches of land in between Tempe and Scottsdale that had no govt except county.
Someone mentioned Health
Someone mentioned Health Insurance for city and county workers. I am interested to know what type of healthcare they are recieving now, and the cost to the city. I have heard county and city employees, have the Cadillac of all insurances. Is this true?? How much are the taxpayers paying for these policys? How much of the city and counties money is going toward health insurance? We are talking cuts right?
I feel the two more years is
I feel the two more years is just because they new it didn’t stand a chance this November. And unless something drastically changes it will be no different 2011. Hopefully more info and questions will be provided in the years to come.