I am in favor of a high speed rail system in New York, but wanted to vote NO. However, my reason for voting no isn't the reason given in the poll. So, I had to go with undecided.
At this time, with NY's financial bind, high speed rail isn't a priority. Would it benefit us in WNY in the future? Yes. Would I vote for it, at another time if Batavia was included in the mix? Yes.
I'm not being biased, but realistic when I maintian that Batavia is the ONLY option for a high speed rail hub. We are the gateway to the east and west.
I must be missing the point of this proposal. Just what is the purpose of this short stretch of rail? Is it a demonstration model of a bigger project? It connects nothing to nothing, unless you count the Riga landfill. And lastly, it encompasses the famous Byron grade; one of the steepest railroad grades in the Country.
I would imagine placing it on that grade is an important part of the pilot project. Insuring that the train can maintain the speed on that stretch of land would be critical to the model.
Seems to me like it would need a longer stretch of rail to get up to speed, with time to slow down and stop, to really be able to demonstrate anything.
I agree with Howard. This is too short a stretch for "high speed". And why have it? It starts no-place and goes no-place. A light rail system would be better for this area.
High speed rail from NYC to Niagara Falls has promise.
John, they couldn't do Niagara Falls due to some right of way issues. There was quite a bit of coverage about this in the Buffalo News last summer.
I agree with Bea's take on this. It's really not enough to do much good right now and this is probably the wrong time for it. I love the idea of high speed rail in this area, but this plan as it stands may be a bit light on real functionality.
I have to agree wit Bea on this one, right now isn't the time for this, however, if it went from Buffalo to Rochester and on the NYC in the future it would have my support.
Its to bad they couldn't run it down the side of the thruway, from Buffalo to NYC, with stops in Batavia, Rochester, Albany, and Syracuse. Imagine it, Wind Turbines powering everything, on one side, Vechicles in the middle, and the High Speed Rail on the other side. Now that would be something. I think people would be more apt to travel to NYC (Manhattan)and other stops, because of the conveniance. It would be a real "Money Maker" for NYS. Then I would agree to the cost. It would be a Wiser Way to spend our stimulus, and a smart investment into the future.
Kevin,
that is why I would advocate for Batavia to be the hub for Western NY.
You don't need a stop in Buffalo and Rochester, just one stop in Batavia. The next stop would be Syracuse, if traveling east.
Florida is putting in the bullet trains (and Karen, some of it will run along side the interstate). http://www.floridabullettrain.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=…
Gahagan,
with as much disdain as you have for this area, why not exert your energy on your own locale. Those of us, here, love this place and want to see what is right for us and for those coming after us.
You chose to leave, so why bother to continually come here to knock us down?
People, people, people. This project, in actuality really has nothing to do with high speed rail. Slaughter's spokesperson readily admits that this rail "will most likely NEVER SEE A TRAIN"! That is a direct quote. It's simply a way for slaughter to say that she brought 58 mil into her district. I spoke with Chris Lee's office this morning and he is trying to put a stop to this blatant waste of our tax dollars. Given the economic climate nationally and within NY, this is no time to be playing choo-choo with $58,000,000!! To those of you that voted yes PLEASE get back to me with a rationale for this debacle. Thank you.
Its a perfect example of outrageous wasteful spending and overall government stupidity, McManis. Why would anyone ride a fast train from Byron to Riga?
to look at the landfill.
Y'all dont seem to care what the government spends money on up there as long as they throw a little sumpin sumpin your way.
What's the matter Texas, now that W is a private citizen and the queen of pork is leaving the Senate, you 'fraid y'all won't be gettin' enough down there?
The point is that it may never see a train, and most likely if it did see a train, it would never see passengers.
It would teach us the best method for laying steel on steel tracks on our topography. It would answer questions about environmental impact; the best use of right of ways; how to best manage the infrastructure needed to procede with the project.
Google pilot projects for High speed rail and read the studies already conducted (both pros and cons) in California, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio and elsewhere.
It has everything to do with high speed rail. It is part of the process. It will also bring jobs to this area. What is wrong with that?
I voted undecided in the poll and I still am undecided based on the three options given.
If there are already pilot projects in "California, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio and elsewhere". Then why do we need to spend $58 million on another one? Can't we study the ones already in process? Awfully expensive research for a project that has shakey prospects of success. Ask Rochesters Fast Ferry investors what they think of the "if you build it, they will come" theory.
I'm not advocating for the project. I'm just saying that other states are looking at it too. We can't use their studies because each is specific for their particular area. Our land use is different than somewhere else, etc.
Howard, I know you don't like government money spent to promote jobs, but read the studies.
You are all for the county (government?) buying the land and building an infrastructure for a corporate park that is going to fill the pockets of a few farmers in Alabama and has no prospect of any tenants (if you build it, they will come syndrome?).
Yet, anything else that may bring an iota of change to the county can't be good.
I give up, there is no point in any real dialogue. Listen to your Texan buddy who hates Genesee Co. with a passion, derides us at every turn while his state is receiving government contracts for rail service, transportation etc.
Posted by John Roach on February 1, 2010 - 7:43pm
Bea,
They can learn all that with the high speed lines in areas that actually might make sense, and save a few millions by not doing it in Byron.
John,
Show me where the states of Florida and California are exactly the same. If that is the case,then California should just take Florida's study.
Show me where we are exactly the same as Florida?
But, by all means, use the studies specific to another state and use them here.
Works for me!
This is 2010, we can simulate terrain, climate, gradation, etc using computer models. We don't have to build a pilot track system for millions just to see how our specific area would work for high speed rail. It has been quite a few years since we've made clay models of cars before building them.
Bea, I challenge you to find one quote from me to back up this statement: "Howard, I know you don't like government money spent to promote jobs, but read the studies. "
So, the majority of people are not for doing a pilot project to make sure billions aren't wasted in the future. (Yes, digital pilots can be done, but I would imagine some things can't be proven until something physical is built.)
Also, a good number of people on this forum aren't for things like the study to see if the county nursing home is an inefficient way to spend money (which could SAVE money in the end).
Many people aren't willing to cut spending on things such as wasteful spending on education, or other proposed cuts.
So, therefore, most people on here are tired of spending so much money on taxes, but aren't willing to take a personal hit by allowing tax cuts to go through. Most people also aren't willing to spend money to possibly save money or create growth, which will create jobs and possibly help revitalize the local economy a bit in the process. So, other than complain, what would you do to help the economy while stopping the taxes?
So ordinary citizens should just keep quiet when they see what they perceive as a waste of their tax dollars? You may call it complaining, but when we couple these blogs with letters and e-mails to our representatives, that's called Democracy. I for one am all for tax cuts, and I understand that due diligence calls for studies to be made before projects move forward, but this one doesn't pass the smell test and I think the smell is pork.
In my opinion, all these "STUDIES" and "PILOT PROJECTS" are excuses, and ways to justify spending MILLIONS of DOLLARS of OUR stimulus money. What exactly are the State, and government officials, job descriptions? What is it that they do all day? Arent they already getting payed to run things, to investigate, make improvements, to do their "jobs", and run our fine state? No they are double-dipping into the stimulus, creating PORK PROJECTS(excuses)to spend Millions. Grab, Grab, Grab!!!
Chelsea, I would help the economy, by taking all the Millions of Stimulus Dollars given to NYS, and Locking it up, to be used to help the people, not to play with, like Monopoly Money, by money grubbing officials, who could give a hoot about the taxpayer.
Government continues to play games, with the precious funds, that were "GIFTED" to the "People of NYS" to help us, not to be pissed away! Do they need help? Thats what they get the "BIG BUCKS" to do right? They deserve a raise and bonus, Right? Because they are going Above and Beyond their duties? Please!!! Still no word on the pricetag for the local water study either.......Im a real New Yorker, and Yes Chelsea, I will continue to complain. Better than laying down and taking it.
Sick In NY
The issue isn't whether high-speed rail is a good or bad idea. It probably is a good idea.
And the issue isn't whether at some point taxpayers should subsidize building such a rail system. Bea makes the point that now is probably a bad time, but that doesn't mean there won't be a right time.
The issue is whether this particular project does anything useful and that seems doubtful.
I agree with Jeff, it smells like pork.
It may be our pork, but it's still pork. At some point, taxpayers need to stop thinking "so long as it's our pork, it's good pork."
Name one government funded project in Western New York that created any permanent private sector jobs.
As for state and local politicians, reducing New York’s unnecessary taxes and regulation would be a good idea, since if WNY is ever to rebound, even somewhat, private innovators, not government projects, will be the primary reason.
Bea, please consider two points: 1.) Economically, given the current environment, any project that does not create PERMANENT jobs should not even be considered. This project is expected to TEMPORARILY create 16 jobs - to be filled by current union members. That works out to $362,500 per worker if the "project" lasts a year. Then those jobs are gone forever. 2.) If for some reason the government can show me (they haven't so far) that such a project is necessary for the development of high speed rail (which I oppose) wouldn't common sense mandate that they play 58 million dollar choo-choo in an area that the "real" high speed rail would go - and integrate that rail into the permanent system?
Unless you can put a car on it, a train that takes you to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo is useless. Once you are there, good luck finding quality transportation that doesn't waste all the time you "saved" by taking the fast train.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on February 2, 2010 - 12:29pm
Unless you can put a car on it, a train that takes you to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo is useless.
Both Albany and Syracuse have new transportation hubs that address that very problem. Buffalo and Rochester are far behind in making it easy to get around.
The mental gymnastics people go through to justify this amazes me. If this were anywhere close to being a self sustaining enterprise the free market would have already done it. This will prove again to be a burden on tax payers for many years to come. As far as job creation, it is arrogant of those who would support this project to believe they know better and should dictate how to spend other people's hard earned money.
Besides, NYC is the only real "destination" on the fast train's route. As we learned with the fast ferry, providing transportation somewhere doesn't make people want to go there. There are already a number of quicker, cheaper options for getting there. Jet Blue, 69 bucks, anyone?
I am in favor of a high speed
I am in favor of a high speed rail system in New York, but wanted to vote NO. However, my reason for voting no isn't the reason given in the poll. So, I had to go with undecided.
At this time, with NY's financial bind, high speed rail isn't a priority. Would it benefit us in WNY in the future? Yes. Would I vote for it, at another time if Batavia was included in the mix? Yes.
I'm not being biased, but realistic when I maintian that Batavia is the ONLY option for a high speed rail hub. We are the gateway to the east and west.
I must be missing the point
I must be missing the point of this proposal. Just what is the purpose of this short stretch of rail? Is it a demonstration model of a bigger project? It connects nothing to nothing, unless you count the Riga landfill. And lastly, it encompasses the famous Byron grade; one of the steepest railroad grades in the Country.
I would imagine placing it on
I would imagine placing it on that grade is an important part of the pilot project. Insuring that the train can maintain the speed on that stretch of land would be critical to the model.
Seems to me like it would
Seems to me like it would need a longer stretch of rail to get up to speed, with time to slow down and stop, to really be able to demonstrate anything.
i would be in faver if it
i would be in faver if it went from buffalo to Rochester to NY city
Think of the
Think of the boost-to-business for Playmates strip club in South Byron!
What a joke throwin
What a joke throwin government money around isn't going to change anything. Train Train take me right on outta this place.
I agree with Howard. This is
I agree with Howard. This is too short a stretch for "high speed". And why have it? It starts no-place and goes no-place. A light rail system would be better for this area.
High speed rail from NYC to Niagara Falls has promise.
John, they couldn't do
John, they couldn't do Niagara Falls due to some right of way issues. There was quite a bit of coverage about this in the Buffalo News last summer.
I agree with Bea's take on this. It's really not enough to do much good right now and this is probably the wrong time for it. I love the idea of high speed rail in this area, but this plan as it stands may be a bit light on real functionality.
I have to agree wit Bea on
I have to agree wit Bea on this one, right now isn't the time for this, however, if it went from Buffalo to Rochester and on the NYC in the future it would have my support.
Its to bad they couldn't run
Its to bad they couldn't run it down the side of the thruway, from Buffalo to NYC, with stops in Batavia, Rochester, Albany, and Syracuse. Imagine it, Wind Turbines powering everything, on one side, Vechicles in the middle, and the High Speed Rail on the other side. Now that would be something. I think people would be more apt to travel to NYC (Manhattan)and other stops, because of the conveniance. It would be a real "Money Maker" for NYS. Then I would agree to the cost. It would be a Wiser Way to spend our stimulus, and a smart investment into the future.
It won't be much of a high
It won't be much of a high speed rail system if it stops every 20 miles. You'll end up with a newer version of Amtrak.
Kevin, that is why I would
Kevin,
that is why I would advocate for Batavia to be the hub for Western NY.
You don't need a stop in Buffalo and Rochester, just one stop in Batavia. The next stop would be Syracuse, if traveling east.
Florida is putting in the bullet trains (and Karen, some of it will run along side the interstate).
http://www.floridabullettrain.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=…
Take a fast train to nowhere
Take a fast train to nowhere to do nothing fast.
Gahagan, with as much
Gahagan,
with as much disdain as you have for this area, why not exert your energy on your own locale. Those of us, here, love this place and want to see what is right for us and for those coming after us.
You chose to leave, so why bother to continually come here to knock us down?
People, people, people. This
People, people, people. This project, in actuality really has nothing to do with high speed rail. Slaughter's spokesperson readily admits that this rail "will most likely NEVER SEE A TRAIN"! That is a direct quote. It's simply a way for slaughter to say that she brought 58 mil into her district. I spoke with Chris Lee's office this morning and he is trying to put a stop to this blatant waste of our tax dollars. Given the economic climate nationally and within NY, this is no time to be playing choo-choo with $58,000,000!! To those of you that voted yes PLEASE get back to me with a rationale for this debacle. Thank you.
Its a perfect example of
Its a perfect example of outrageous wasteful spending and overall government stupidity, McManis. Why would anyone ride a fast train from Byron to Riga?
to look at the landfill.
Y'all dont seem to care what the government spends money on up there as long as they throw a little sumpin sumpin your way.
What's the matter Texas, now
What's the matter Texas, now that W is a private citizen and the queen of pork is leaving the Senate, you 'fraid y'all won't be gettin' enough down there?
http://www.cagw.org/newsroom/porker-of-the-month/2009/sen-kay-bailey-hu…
The point is that it may
The point is that it may never see a train, and most likely if it did see a train, it would never see passengers.
It would teach us the best method for laying steel on steel tracks on our topography. It would answer questions about environmental impact; the best use of right of ways; how to best manage the infrastructure needed to procede with the project.
Google pilot projects for High speed rail and read the studies already conducted (both pros and cons) in California, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio and elsewhere.
It has everything to do with high speed rail. It is part of the process. It will also bring jobs to this area. What is wrong with that?
I voted undecided in the poll and I still am undecided based on the three options given.
Bea, They can learn all that
Bea,
They can learn all that with the high speed lines in areas that actually might make sense, and save a few millions by not doing it in Byron.
If there are already pilot
If there are already pilot projects in "California, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio and elsewhere". Then why do we need to spend $58 million on another one? Can't we study the ones already in process? Awfully expensive research for a project that has shakey prospects of success. Ask Rochesters Fast Ferry investors what they think of the "if you build it, they will come" theory.
"It will also bring jobs to
"It will also bring jobs to this area. What is wrong with that?"
The famous words attached to every pork project that helps drive federal deficit spending.
I'm not advocating for the
I'm not advocating for the project. I'm just saying that other states are looking at it too. We can't use their studies because each is specific for their particular area. Our land use is different than somewhere else, etc.
Howard, I know you don't like government money spent to promote jobs, but read the studies.
You are all for the county (government?) buying the land and building an infrastructure for a corporate park that is going to fill the pockets of a few farmers in Alabama and has no prospect of any tenants (if you build it, they will come syndrome?).
Yet, anything else that may bring an iota of change to the county can't be good.
I give up, there is no point in any real dialogue. Listen to your Texan buddy who hates Genesee Co. with a passion, derides us at every turn while his state is receiving government contracts for rail service, transportation etc.
Posted by John Roach on
Posted by John Roach on February 1, 2010 - 7:43pm
Bea,
They can learn all that with the high speed lines in areas that actually might make sense, and save a few millions by not doing it in Byron.
John,
Show me where the states of Florida and California are exactly the same. If that is the case,then California should just take Florida's study.
Show me where we are exactly the same as Florida?
But, by all means, use the studies specific to another state and use them here.
Works for me!
This is 2010, we can simulate
This is 2010, we can simulate terrain, climate, gradation, etc using computer models. We don't have to build a pilot track system for millions just to see how our specific area would work for high speed rail. It has been quite a few years since we've made clay models of cars before building them.
Bea, I challenge you to find
Bea, I challenge you to find one quote from me to back up this statement: "Howard, I know you don't like government money spent to promote jobs, but read the studies. "
So, the majority of people
So, the majority of people are not for doing a pilot project to make sure billions aren't wasted in the future. (Yes, digital pilots can be done, but I would imagine some things can't be proven until something physical is built.)
Also, a good number of people on this forum aren't for things like the study to see if the county nursing home is an inefficient way to spend money (which could SAVE money in the end).
Many people aren't willing to cut spending on things such as wasteful spending on education, or other proposed cuts.
So, therefore, most people on here are tired of spending so much money on taxes, but aren't willing to take a personal hit by allowing tax cuts to go through. Most people also aren't willing to spend money to possibly save money or create growth, which will create jobs and possibly help revitalize the local economy a bit in the process. So, other than complain, what would you do to help the economy while stopping the taxes?
Chelsea, Thanks :) Couldn't
Chelsea,
Thanks :)
Couldn't say it better.
So ordinary citizens should
So ordinary citizens should just keep quiet when they see what they perceive as a waste of their tax dollars? You may call it complaining, but when we couple these blogs with letters and e-mails to our representatives, that's called Democracy. I for one am all for tax cuts, and I understand that due diligence calls for studies to be made before projects move forward, but this one doesn't pass the smell test and I think the smell is pork.
In my opinion, all these
In my opinion, all these "STUDIES" and "PILOT PROJECTS" are excuses, and ways to justify spending MILLIONS of DOLLARS of OUR stimulus money. What exactly are the State, and government officials, job descriptions? What is it that they do all day? Arent they already getting payed to run things, to investigate, make improvements, to do their "jobs", and run our fine state? No they are double-dipping into the stimulus, creating PORK PROJECTS(excuses)to spend Millions. Grab, Grab, Grab!!!
Chelsea, I would help the economy, by taking all the Millions of Stimulus Dollars given to NYS, and Locking it up, to be used to help the people, not to play with, like Monopoly Money, by money grubbing officials, who could give a hoot about the taxpayer.
Government continues to play games, with the precious funds, that were "GIFTED" to the "People of NYS" to help us, not to be pissed away! Do they need help? Thats what they get the "BIG BUCKS" to do right? They deserve a raise and bonus, Right? Because they are going Above and Beyond their duties? Please!!! Still no word on the pricetag for the local water study either.......Im a real New Yorker, and Yes Chelsea, I will continue to complain. Better than laying down and taking it.
Sick In NY
The issue isn't whether
The issue isn't whether high-speed rail is a good or bad idea. It probably is a good idea.
And the issue isn't whether at some point taxpayers should subsidize building such a rail system. Bea makes the point that now is probably a bad time, but that doesn't mean there won't be a right time.
The issue is whether this particular project does anything useful and that seems doubtful.
I agree with Jeff, it smells like pork.
It may be our pork, but it's still pork. At some point, taxpayers need to stop thinking "so long as it's our pork, it's good pork."
Name one government funded
Name one government funded project in Western New York that created any permanent private sector jobs.
As for state and local politicians, reducing New York’s unnecessary taxes and regulation would be a good idea, since if WNY is ever to rebound, even somewhat, private innovators, not government projects, will be the primary reason.
Bea, There are other high
Bea,
There are other high speed lines planned for New York. The money for this Byron line could be better spent on them.
I support high speed rail and light rail, but the Byron project is just a waste of money.
Bea, please consider two
Bea, please consider two points: 1.) Economically, given the current environment, any project that does not create PERMANENT jobs should not even be considered. This project is expected to TEMPORARILY create 16 jobs - to be filled by current union members. That works out to $362,500 per worker if the "project" lasts a year. Then those jobs are gone forever. 2.) If for some reason the government can show me (they haven't so far) that such a project is necessary for the development of high speed rail (which I oppose) wouldn't common sense mandate that they play 58 million dollar choo-choo in an area that the "real" high speed rail would go - and integrate that rail into the permanent system?
Unless you can put a car on
Unless you can put a car on it, a train that takes you to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo is useless. Once you are there, good luck finding quality transportation that doesn't waste all the time you "saved" by taking the fast train.
Another $50 million train
Another $50 million train stimulus in California and it smells too:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/01/31/MNP31BNTV4…
Posted by Peter O'Brien on
Posted by Peter O'Brien on February 2, 2010 - 12:29pm
Unless you can put a car on it, a train that takes you to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo is useless.
Both Albany and Syracuse have new transportation hubs that address that very problem. Buffalo and Rochester are far behind in making it easy to get around.
The mental gymnastics people
The mental gymnastics people go through to justify this amazes me. If this were anywhere close to being a self sustaining enterprise the free market would have already done it. This will prove again to be a burden on tax payers for many years to come. As far as job creation, it is arrogant of those who would support this project to believe they know better and should dictate how to spend other people's hard earned money.
Besides, NYC is the only real "destination" on the fast train's route. As we learned with the fast ferry, providing transportation somewhere doesn't make people want to go there. There are already a number of quicker, cheaper options for getting there. Jet Blue, 69 bucks, anyone?