Elba planning to start school year early

1 more week per year of government indoctrination.

1 week is not going to make any significant difference.

Peter, do you see ghosts behind every door?
While I agree that one week won't make a difference, I don't consider education government indoctrination. Would you prefer that all children skip formal education and go into this world illiterate and unskilled?
If they really want to make a difference they would schedule less days off for teachers' conferences, etc.
180 days of school is sufficient. In this area, especially for a rural school, the school year was set for a specific purpose. School starts at the beginning of the harvest season. I would like to know how many families will miss that extra hand on their farms when needed most.

No, I would prefer home schooling or private education. I would prefer choice over government mandated curriculum

Here is what Russia thinks about our education system
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

Along with our downfall into socialism

my children, some who read this, went through the public school system. I don't see any Communist traits in their make up. I went through private school, then public school...none here either.
Peter, not everything is black and white. There is a grey area in everything. You seem to miss that.
I have friends from the far right to the far left. We may agree to disagree, but we also realize that there is good in everyone.

The public school system itself is communist. This is from the communist manifesto. See #10

As for the rest, #1 see Kelo vs New London
#2 See our current income tax
#3 See Obama's Inheritance Tax
#4 Firing of CEO's, not quite confiscation but close
#5 Bank Bailouts
#6 GM and Chrysler Bailouts
#7 EPA
#8 Farm Workers Bill among other things
#9 General anger at Golisano choosing to live in a different state and anger I have seen from people about state workers retiring then leaving NY and still getting a pension.

10 Conditions For Transition To Communism

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equal distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.[7]

Free education was suggested heavily by Jefferson, and he was decidedly not a Communist. Jefferson believed that in order for our democracy to run correctly the people needed to be educated. The difference between our education system and those of other countries is that our public schools are regulated by individual states, not the federal government.

A transition to communism must take place at the federal level, and so I'm assuming all of these conditions are put in place by some type of federal government.

#1 cannot happen here, as one of our fundamental rights is to own property

#2 Most taxes, at least where we live, come from the state, not the federal government. In order for it to be considered "heavy" there needs to be no "safe" places for rich people to go. We still have places with lower taxes

#3 Eh, you could argue that the new taxes on inheritances do this. But it isn't abolition of them,

#4 I have yet to see property confiscated due to political views (violence and other things can lead to imprisonment though)

#5 National Banks have existed for decades, your personal opinion of them doesn't matter, 'cause most of the countries that have them AREN'T communist. The centralisation of credit hasn't happened either.

#6 This has always been in the hands of the state, and people of both parties can argue that they could be privatized and save a lot of money

#7 Yes, all those bad auto plants now "belong" to tax payers, but the rest doesn't apply

#8 This is supposed to happen through education, our system is broken. But, this could also be compared to the "American Dream" where we say everyone has the same ability to do whatever they want.

#9 The first part has happened by the corporate farming techniques taught by colleges; second part... I still see lots of corn on the way to Batavia

#10 addressed above.

What point were you trying to make?

Everyone of the points I listed show a gradual change from a free society into one the communists were trying to create. Just because we aren't there now doesn't mean we aren't moving towards it. If let everything go and free fall to communism then it is that much harder to escape its grasp of government dependency.

And correlate the numbers to mine to make it easier.

I get an education everyday from The Batavian Website. What does that make me ? I enjoy all of these posts and points of view on this subject. I dare say that I have been proved wrong and seemed slightly ignorant on many subjects. I obtained my education from public schools and Community college right here in Genesee County. May I use this as an excuse for my lack of proper edumacationz ? Maybe I should demand a refund !

Jefferson never wanted any type of mandated curriculum from the federal government like we have now. I would have no problem if the schools were responsible solely to the local tax payer but that day has come and gone.

The numbers of my explanations do correlate to the conditions you posted.

Manifesto 7 - cultivating waste-lands
My 7 - EPA
Your 7 - bad auto plants

Its not out lined in the constitution that the government should create consumer items.

#7 Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

#7 Yes, all those bad auto plants now "belong" to tax payers, **first part of above** but the rest doesn't apply **second part of above**

The EPA is about preserving and protecting, lately it hasn't tried to rehabilitate in accordance with a common plan

Communism as Marx and Engels described it has never existed outside of books. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc. initiated something else. Communism was designed for highly industrialized nations, specifically: Germany and Great Britain. It was developed to empower factory workers who were underpaid, over-worked and treated little better than slaves.

The reason communism has never existed is that most industrialized nations took it upon themselves to temper the draconian grip of big business with unions, labor laws, anti-trust laws, occupational safety reform, etc. The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848. The problems it purported to solve hardly exist anymore- least not in developed nations. Think child labor, coal soot raining down on rowhouses, cholera, no sanitary sewers or clean water...

Permanent, repressive rule was not the intent of Communism. It was a Utopian idea that posited a worker rebellion, followed by proletarian reorganization that would rule until everyone fully embraced communist principles. The end scheme was a democratic worker state. The whole point was elimination of class distinctions.

Come to think of it... Why did our nation spend decades declaring the USSR and People's Republic of China our arch nemesis if Communism was the ultimate aim? And please don't suggest that all this socialist stuff began recently... Theodore Roosevelt(a Republican mind-you)took on unrestrained capitalism, enforcing antitrust laws in the 1850s. Trade unions have been in ascendency since the 1890s. Social welfare programs existed in colonial times. Workers compensation has been around since 1908. ...Pension plans since 1896. ...The social security act since 1935.

This is why we need public education- so our citizens can speak intelligently about government.

...and what does any of this have to do with starting school a week early?

I think the concern some of the parents had is that they were not notified about the change. Elba had always started the school year after Labor Day but changed this year due to Labor Day being later this year. Apparently, many families have plans camping, State Fair, etc. and were upset to find out the change through word of mouth and not directly from the school. My understanding is the Board voted on this in February but again never notified the families of Elba of the change.

C.M. it has something to do with Peter claiming that the early week is an evil attempt by the school to add another week of government indoctrination and his claim that children that attend public schools are headed down the path of Communism.
Ergo the path back to Elba.

"The public school system itself is communist. This is from the communist manifesto. See #10"

Peter.. communist manifesto? are you serious? LOL and you think there is something wrong with the school system? I went to Batavia High school and I'm not a communist, thank you very much. I want to know what's wrong with someone that chooses this for reading material. I wouldnt know where to look. Seems to me a true communist would know where to find this information.

Howard, your comments are not without justification. Roosevelt was indeed a Jingoist as well as Progressive- he named the party! I dropped TR's name to establish a time frame for such policies as he advocated. The point: social reform is neither new, nor an agenda exclusive to Communists. (J. P. Morgan and George F. Baer might label TR a Communist!)

I would argue that TR was sympathetic to the small businessman. Though he tended to favor high-publicity skermishes and had a problem following through on others.

From TR's speech to the Ohio Constitutional Convention Columbus: 1912

We are a business people. The tillers of the soil, the wage workers, the business men — these are the three big and vitally important divisions of our population. The welfare of each. division is vitally necessary to the welfare of the people as a whole. The great mass of business is of course done by men whose business is either small or of moderate size. The middle sized business men form an element of strength which is of literally incalculable value to the nation. Taken as a class, they are among our best citizens. They have not been seekers after enormous fortunes; they have been moderately and justly prosperous, by reason of dealing fairly with their customers, competitors, and employees. They are satisfied with a legitimate profit that will pay their expenses of living and lay by something for those who come after, and the additional amount necessary for the betterment and improvement of their plant. The average business man of this type is, as a rule, a leading citizen of his community, foremost in everything that tells for its betterment, a man whom his neighbors look up to and respect; he is in no sense dangerous to his community, just because he is an integral part of his community, bone of its bone and flesh of its flesh. His life fibers are intertwined with the life fibers of his fellow citizens. Yet nowadays many men of this kind, when they come to make necessary trade agreements with one another, find themselves in danger of becoming unwitting transgressors of the law, and are at a loss to know what the law forbids and what it permits. This is all wrong. There should be a fixed governmental policy, a policy which shall clearly define and punish wrong—doing, and shall give in advance full information to any man as to just what he can and just what he cannot legally and properly do. It is absurd and wicked to treat the deliberate lawbreaker as on an exact par with the man eager to obey the law, whose only desire is to find out from some competent governmental authority what the law is and then live up to it. It is absurd to endeavor to regulate business in the interest of the public by means of long—drawn lawsuits without any accompaniment of administrative control and regulation, and without any attempt to discriminate between the honest man who has succeeded in business because of rendering a service to the public and the dishonest man who has succeeded in business by cheating the public.

"Peter.. communist manifesto? are you serious? LOL and you think there is something wrong with the school system? I went to Batavia High school and I'm not a communist, thank you very much. I want to know what's wrong with someone that chooses this for reading material. I wouldnt know where to look. Seems to me a true communist would know where to find this information."

3 second Google search.

Know thy enemies or fall to their will.

Folks that don't believe we're headed down the road to Socialism (or worse) are alot like the parable of the frog in the pot of cold water that is ever so slowly getting warmer. Everything seems fine, until it's too late to do anything about it.

Socialism, when it comes to working with the poor is wrong.
Socialism, when it comes to bailing out Wall St. was right.

The far right has only one weapon in their arsenal right now and it is fear mongering. It isn't working.

Lets assume that you are correct and fear mongering is their only weapon (its not)

That's all the left had in 2005 and look where it got them. Why reinvent the wheel?

And no, none of the bailouts are ok with conservatives.

I was against all the bail-outs last fall. Check my posts at the time Howard posed the question here.

Tell me Bea, what is your opinion of all the retirees in Indiana whose pension fund just became worthless with the govt. take-over of Chrysler. I'd say they have a right to be fearful, wouldn't you? What about all the employees of the Chrysler and GM Dealerships that will be out of work by month's end. Should they be afraid? Then there's the owners of those dealerships. With the stroke of a pen, the President just put the vast majority of them into personal bankruptcy. You can read their stories just about anywhere and you will see they are definitely afraid. (On a related note, anyone else notice the lot at Zigrossi's has noticeably fewer cars on it lately?)

But, I'm fear-mongering, right? You do know all these czars the President has been appointed are accountable to no-one except the President, right? I thought our country was founded with a system of checks and balances in government?

Peter, you are entitled to your opinions. I may not agree with them, but I won't go down your path and label people as Communists, or worse.
You may believe that you live in the midst of a great conspiracy to take down this government, but I wonder sometimes just how much you love this country and the constitution under which it has survived all these years.
Patriotism does not wear the GOP/Conservative/Libertarian button. To believe that only those who agree with your idealogy are the only standard bearers of love of country and freedom is wrong.
This started because you stated that the Elba School system is taking that extra week for additional government indoctrination. You also stated that only home school or private school can provide the education free of such indoctrination. Please tell me what indoctrination would children at your home school receive?
Do you feel that the only indoctrination ALL children should receive is the idealogy that you hold?
Is there, in your indoctrination, the belief that children should be taught to question and research and learn other idealogies?

Bea,
Conservatives were never in favor of the Wall Street bail out or the auto bailout, so don't go down the "far right" path. It was Liberal Dem. and Liberal Republicans who bailed them all out.

I'm not sure what "headed down the path to Socialism (or worse)" means... By definition, Socialism is a political-economic system wherein land and organs of productivity are publicly owned; the output of which is shared among workers.

I concede that U.S. benevolence to corporate America is best construed as welfare... By no means is the United States courting Socialism. This country is bought and paid for by special interests AKA corporations that have no intention of being nationalized.

Compared to 1960, the middle (working) class depends on two wage earners to maintain par. *(While the median household income has increased 30% since 1990, it has increased only slightly when considering inflation. In 1990, the median household income was $30,056 or $44,603 in 2003 dollars. While personal income has remained relatively stagnant over the past few decades, household income has risen due to the rising percentage of households with two or more income earners. The 2006 economic survey also found that households in the top two income quintiles, those with an annual household income exceeding $60,000, had a median of two income earners while those in the lower quintiles (2nd and middle quintile) had median of only one income earner per household. -Household income in the United States From Wikipedia)

Cost of living since 1960 has increased by a factor of 13. Household income has not kept up. Basic costs in 1960:

New house; $11,700
Average monthly rent: $88
Gas: 22c a gallon
New car: $2,050
Health insurance for family: $75 a month

In 2008, the minimum wage was $6.55 an hour.

Basic costs today:

New house: $212,000
Average monthly rent: $1,200
Gas: $2.25 a gallon
New car: $28,400
Health insurance for family: $840 a month

To have the same standard of living as Americans enjoyed in 1960, the minimum wage today should be $13 an hour. Hence the necessity for two wage earners.

YET- - WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- U.S. corporate profits have increased 21.3% in the past year and now account for the largest share of national income in 40 years, the Commerce Department said Thursday.

Strong productivity gains and subdued wage growth boosted before-tax profits to 11.6% of national income in the fourth quarter of 2005, the biggest share since the summer of 1966.

So tell me more of this trend toward Socialism....

Posted by C. M. Barons on June 10, 2009 - 10:13am
I'm not sure what "headed down the path to Socialism (or worse)" means...

The only answer you will get is more fear mongering...

Posted by Peter O'Brien on June 9, 2009 - 10:49am
1 more week per year of government indoctrination.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on June 9, 2009 - 11:52am
Here is what Russia thinks about our education system
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

Posted by Peter O'Brien on June 9, 2009 - 12:32pm
The public school system itself is communist. This is from the communist manifesto. See #10

Posted by Peter O'Brien on June 9, 2009 - 1:04pm
Everyone of the points I listed show a gradual change from a free society into one the communists were trying to create. Just because we aren't there now doesn't mean we aren't moving towards it. If let everything go and free fall to communism then it is that much harder to escape its grasp of government dependency.

Posted by Andrew Erbell on June 10, 2009 - 8:53am
Folks that don't believe we're headed down the road to Socialism (or worse) are alot like the parable of the frog in the pot of cold water that is ever so slowly getting warmer. Everything seems fine, until it's too late to do anything about it.

All good points C.M..but the one you forgot is the % of all taxes paid in 1960 to 2008..If we pay a greater % of taxes on our income (property taxes ,sales taxes,state taxes,gas taxes,utilies taxes,and Federal taxes ect.ect.) now then in 1960...Corporate rates in US are higher then in most countries..Point being a great % of income is taken away in taxes..Just in the last few years the sales taxes in genesse county has gone from 7% to 8.5 %..It was alot less in 1960....That can makes us more Socialistic....That looks like a trend to me.....

Way to get off topic...Guess Elba should get a new school board................

"So tell me more of this trend toward Socialism...."

Tell me, what would you call what the Federal Government just did in taking over GM and Chrysler? How about telling secured bond holders to take a hike and giving their stake in a company to another entity for nothing? Perhaps, bringing Bank CEO's into the White House and telling them they WILL take bailout money despite not wanting or needing it and later telling those same people they WILL NOT pay it back until the Federal Government tells them they can. Any of this ring any bells for you?

Liberals don't love the constitution as written. It needs constant updates to them which is wrong.

I am engaged to Chelsea Dobson, if you think my kids won't get both sides you are strongly mistaken.

Liberals can be patriots, that doesn't stop their ideal from being determental.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on June 10, 2009 - 12:05pm
Liberals don't love the constitution as written. It needs constant updates to them which is wrong.

by constant updating are you referring to giving women the right to vote?
or ending slavery?
Damn those liberals anyway!

Ending slavery was not completed through the constitution. It was completed with the Emancipation Proclamation. The 13th amendment just shored up Lincoln's war time decree.

The 19th amendment was an extension of the ideas of the framers.

On the other hand the 16th amendment was contrary to the Constitution.

There is not right to privacy in the constitution. There is not a right to expression. These were determined by judges and should be put to an amendment, not left to some judicial appointee.

The problem here is a confusion of terms. Socialism requires more than redistribution of wealth; production must be state-owned. Our industry and land are not owned by the state. On the contrary, the opposite seems to be true. 150 years of failed political influence reform is evidence enough. Regulating is not the same as owning factories, farms, utilities and modes of transportation.

The correct term is Welfare Capitalism. Government attempts to mediate poverty through social programs funded by public money AKA taxes. Distinctly different from Socialism. Under Welfare Capitalism factories remain in the private sector. Banks, the telephone company, railroads, energy, health care; all remain privately owned. And we trust them not to become too greedy.

As for the word Liberal- it has been so manipulated that it defies definition. Yes, the original meaning in law denoted: Liberal = court interpretation of law; Conservative = literal application of law. The spin doctors have managed to equate liberal with spend-thrift and conservative with tight-wad. This among a myriad of other impressions distilled from hyperbole.

In any event, updating and interpreting are not synonymous. The responsibility of the Supreme Court is to interpret law. And occasionally the interpretations function as updates. That was understood in the Constitution. Our founders were savvy enough to realize things might change after a couple hundred years. ...A stunning departure for those who champion Biblical law.

Who could have guessed that corporations would assume rights reserved for individuals?

Excellent retort, Bea!

Peter,
If you want to pose as an expert, try to get your facts straight. The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order which freed the slaves in ten specific states. Those were states in rebellion. Slave-holding areas under federal control were exempted. Until the Thirteenth Amendment (December of 1865) slavery was still legal in Delaware, Kentucky and Missouri. The other exempted areas had all passed state anti-slavery laws. So the amendment to the Constitution got the job done.

What I said still holds true. It shored up Lincoln's executive order. And there were 5 states that it didn't apply in. You left out Tennessee and Maryland.

As for the role of the Supreme Court, i understand they interpret. They are wrong in their belief that its ok to burn the flag and that we have a right to privacy. Just because they are justices on the supreme court doesn't mean they can't be wrong.

Peter, I did not leave out Tennessee and Maryland. Read more carefully. They fall under the category of states that enacted anti-slavery legislation prior to the Thirteenth Amendment. The three states that I mentioned were the only ones left that had not passed such laws by December 18, 1865.

Does anyone else find it frustrating that the last word of a line is often cut off? I have a hard time making out what I wrote myself!

...as was interfering with Florida election law, overriding the state Supreme Court to dismiss a recount of the November 2000 ballots. Not to mention the Dred Scott decision; Kelo vs. City of New London, public domain; Bowers vs. Hardwick, sexual privacy at home; Buckley vs. Valeo, campaign financing; Plessy vs. Ferguson, segregation; Gonzales vs. Raich, thumbs down on medical marijuana...

...But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.