Elba robbery suspects identified, arraigned and held without bail

Come to think of it that person dressed up as an onion I saw on rt. 98 today didn't look like he was up to any good.

just out of curiosity, I did a search of the DOCS website for these guys, Micheal Wells has already done some time for a burglary, as a matter of fact he is still on parole, looks like he's be going back to Bubba!

Great coverage on the story today-

Howard, you are amazing how quick you get the news of here.. I know when I hear a siren, I can log on to see what is going on.

I had no clue this was happening until I was at BJ's and the checkout clerk mentioned it.. sure enough I came back.. logged on and there it was!
Thanks for all you do.

Let's give major kudos to our local law enforcement agencies. The fact is these thugs thought that driving out to a hick town near a thruway exit would be an easy knock off and escape back to the city. They got a quick introduction to rural justice. The only question that loomed yesterday was who would get them first, the police or a ticked off land owner with a shotgun! Great work everybody(Howard included), you did our area proud!

Jeff, explain to the people how you know what these men were thinking. Because if you know that, I want to know what the lottery numbers are going to be.

That's not proof, its an inference from available knowledge. Its thinking like Jeff's that has led to hate crime (aka thought crime) legislation.

Jeff - I thought the exact same thing. Don't mess with us small town hicks. I was very impressed with our law enforcement agencies. They did a superb job and you did too Howard. My daughter called me up at work after getting home from school and was quite surprised that I knew so much.

robbing a bank just a few miles away from the NYS trooper barracks was not the best thought out plan. The converge on this story was top-rate, of course I was at work and didn't hear much until around 1-2pm, but it was still amazing coverage. The police agencies that worked together did a bang-up job!

Gary you might want to go back and look again, they have that inmate listed as white for race. I though it was a good hit until that. Most likely still going to meet Bubba.

Its not a long slippery slope to the comparison. It used to be that a case had to be proven, now just an inference on peoples motivations is all that is needed to slap added sentences on.

My point in asking what he knew about their thoughts was simply to draw this comparison. I know that no proof needs to be given to someone as lowly as me, nor did I expect any.

But is it not a stereotypical belief that the back woods of Elba must have poor law enforcement compared to the city of Buffalo? So if hate crimes legislation protected "red necks" couldn't that be added to the charges?

Howard,
He was refering to Gary's first post on the thread about the Department of Correctional Services site.

Great job Howard. And Peter, you just seem to go overboard and lash out at people who make inferences. This is a blog! People probably do think our village of Elba is a redneck town, but they don't really know us at all. I take no offense. We have a fine heritage, a top rate school and many other amentities that people could envy. Relax and smell the roses Peter.

I wasn't trying to offend I writing from the assumed perspective of the suspects. Honestly I have never been to Elba so I don't know what its like.

I also wasn't trying to sound like I was lashing out. Tone is missing from text posts on blogs and if this conversation occurred in person I guarantee that your view of it would be different.

I know my writing often sounds angry. Sometimes it is. Most of the time I am just emptying my thoughts on to The Batavian. I don't have a screen between my head and hands like I have developed for my mouth (through lots of extra assigned duties in the military).

Thanks for the news report Howard. I didnt get a chance to se it. I guess the next theives that try to steal from our town better think twice.

Richard,
"MY BAD"...you are right they do have Micheal J. Wells listed as white on the docs web-site! I typed in the name and noticed the date of birth fit the age and didn't notice the race...sorry!
Gary
here is the site for others to see:
http://nysdocslookup.docs.state.ny.us/GCA00P00/WIQ3/WINQ130

sorry, you are right, the name fit the year of birth fit the age...I didn't notice the race...
strange that there would be two people with the same name, same age though??

Peter,
the segue you made from my original post to my thinking being the motivation behind hate crime legislation is absurd. Making "an inference from available knowledge" is exactly the driving force behind OPINION blogs.
I don't believe these individuals selected Elba as their target because they "hated" Elba, small towns, hicks, farmers, onions, muckland, Lancers, etc.. I believe they selected Elba on the assumption that it was an easy target. They were wrong, and I was simply commending our local law enforcement on a job well done. Perhaps if more people spent their time and resources encouraging others who impact our lives, and less time ferreting out the evil intent in every communication, there would be less conflict in our daily walk.

Is stereotyping the problem that is trying to be solved by hate crime legislation?

Is it stereotyping to think that a small town has a less able police force? Less resources sure, but less able?

My answer to those questions is yes and that is a correlation.

So lets look at it this way.
Lets assume that I part of a minority. The stereotype of that minority is that I am slow and bumbling. I am the protector of a fort.

You live in large city. You see police everyday. You have seen how fast and diligently they get to a scene. You know that I protect a nearby fort that you want something of. You know I am a minority that has the a fore mentioned stereotype. You believe that stereotype.
You try to exploit it by attacking my fort.

The result of the attack doesn't matter. Hatred doesn't have to be involved. Your motivation is based on a stereotype you believed in. That is a hate crime if I am a protected minority.

Now how does that not relate? You admit yourself they thought Elba would be an easy target.

Are those piercings in his cheek Howard? OOuch! I wonder if it means something.
http://www.tattoo-designs.dk/prison-tattoos.html

Jeff, I agree w/your post, actually, it was what I was thinking myself. It had a little humor in it with the "hick town". I try not to tear other's postings apart to show how much smarter I am or how wrong the poster is in my view and how my opinion is the correct one. If I have a different Opinion, I state it w/out calling someone out by name. If I agree w/someone's view then I will call them by name as I did in this post.

So postive mentioning is ok but negative isn't? Why do you assume that I disagree with his reasoning, I just take it a step further.

Why has this become is a society of pansies. Why am I a villain for expressing my opinion which is just a valid as his? Because I defend it?

Your just so intent on being negative and stirring people up with insults. Try being nice, it will get you the attention you crave, but in a positive way. We more than get your point, as we have since this morning. I enter this blogg in a good mood, and beleive it or not, leave it in a good mood, and so should you. Give others a chance to get in a word edgwise, and blogg with each other. I know you can do it!!

Man robs bank
Man gets caught
Man goes to prison

Welcome to Logiccity, we apologize for the turbulent and extended flight, but we do hope you enjoy your stay while you are here. If at any time you wish to leave, we will be glad to put on a direct flight back to Overthinkington.

Peter, since you are asking me, I am replying. You've been asking several people about your style of blogging... keep in mind, I am not attacking you and not trying to pick a fight, just replying. The style of your replies can have the affect of getting blasted w/fact after fact. When someone just keeps firing fact after fact at you without softening it a bit, one will get offended. As you have said, "Tone is missing from text posting". So, keeping that in mind... when fact after fact is texted/blogged at someone... can you see where I'm going? I appreciate your passion, just trying to help as you are very active blogger and you have asked before. :0)

I'm not negative nor am I in a bad mood. It seems to me society cannot stand people that a devout in their views.

I admit to being overbearing but I believe that is because others aren't willing to bear it. I am strong willed and I have developed views that stray from the center. I don't apologize for that or for the strength of my convictions.

One of my convictions is that hate crimes are thought crimes and are wrong and if I can display the absurdity of them through this example I am going to.

There is no such thing as over-thinking. There are undeveloped thoughts and developed thoughts. You can never think too much. Would someone say that Newton thought too much? How about Freud? Hawking? Edison? Einstiein? All of them geniuses. I am not. But I strive to be more than I am in all parts of my life. Why is it that a layman like me can over-think something if they can't? Education?

As far as getting a word in, I post less when I have work to do. Right now I am part of the 15% of the workforce here that is not being utilized. I am waiting on other people to finish what they need to do in order for me to do something that is above what I should be doing.

Peter so you are at work being paid to blog?Man i thought ya only picked on me.I was wrong.I don't agree with much that you ever say.Or anything.Yea i think you can think too much.I gotta give my brain a rest.Forget the blank and try an relax yea that's it.Simma down.Ya know before i lived in the woods it was less stressful.

Dan,
Essentially, yes. I get pulled for odd jobs once in a while but most of the time there is nothing to do till the new product is ready.

Peter says> But is it not a stereotypical belief that the back woods of Elba must have poor law enforcement compared to the city of Buffalo? So if hate crimes legislation protected "red necks" couldn't that be added to the charges?
I think they'd have had more money and a better chance to get away in a city.So were all rednecks.Stereotypes nice.Right i wish my neck was red.I gotta get off here and rest.
Maybe puters are not so good for too long are they?

So why don't they fire you?for not working?Nothing to do.

If you follow along in the thread I mentioned that I was writing from a possible view of the suspects.

I survived 3 layoffs so far and until the last one ocurred I had work to do.

If they lay off anymore, their product knowledge base will be too diminished to allow the company to make a comeback when the industry comes back.

The product line work on originally had much more work but the order was scaled back as the recession hit.

I am also valuable because I wrote or had a hand in writing 50% of the test procedures that are currently used before I was sent to the production floor to test instead of write (that happened at the same time as the first layoff)

Also since I am young and new I am cheap. Better people than me have been layed off and if there is another round I have no doubt I will go.

I can't believe they had ten thousand dollars cash at a bank in Elba. That must have been all weeks worth. They didn't have to give it all to them, and what about the dye pack? It's like they came down from Charlotte to rob a bank in Mayberry and then they got caught in Mount Pilot.

George, while I think Austin is a cool city, for the most part Texas sucks hind teet. Too many rednecks and Mexicans. I know that's not PC, but I said it. The only thing good I ever saw come out of Texas was I10 east and west!

:) :) :) :)

Any bank robber will tell ya that you NEVER let the teller give u money out of the drawer and there are many "panic buttons" located in certain areas. enuff said. Thank God nobody got killed !

Bud, Elba is cool I'm just pulling your leg. But you are right about the rest of Texas except for Willie Nelson.

and don't forget the vaughn brothers :)

Y'all can stay in that high taxes no jobs welfare state - I'm staying in Texas where they actually have an economy, private sector jobs, no state taxes, and the buildings aren't all boarded up and fallin to pieces. Texas rednecks, mexicans, hill country, fine women, lake fork and the piney woods brutha.

Without Mexicans we would have no Mexican food and I would die from starvation. Pizza can only keep me going two days a week.

Its kinda funny really I've found that the "rednecks" in Texas are actually much open minded, less prejudice, more independent, more intelligent, wealthier and friendlier than most WNY hicks.

If you post a comment and then later regret it, just say so and stand by your regret. Don't remove the post so that the natural flow of the debate is interrupted and causes responding posts to be confusing.

Jeff, if you are talking to me I plead guilty for past transgressions but you didn't miss anything because it was only related in my mind. Vaguely related at best, but you are right, even if you weren't referring to me.

Good Richard, you found a good home. Nice for you. NEXT

Bud, you found a good home too. That's why we keep checking in from Texas. Nice for you. LUCKY DUDE.

Convoluting misjudgment of a rural bank's vulnerability as similar to criminal acts targeting an individual's race, religion, gender or sexual preference (AKA Hate Crime) is absurd. I doubt even Rush Limbaugh would buy into that logic.

I do, however, agree with Howard; regardless of hateful motivation, a crime is a crime. I believe the intent of those who advocated penalizing hate had in mind crimes such as cross burnings and swastika painting that begged a more serious outcome than applicable law could impart. Also the incidence of bias crimes appears to be on the rise as are groups who advocate violent bigotry. Certainly the recent attack on the Holocaust Museum in DC supports the notion. In the case of group conspiracy or gang fueled violence, a separate charge is warranted. The 1994 federal statute defines hate crime as - "a crime in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim, or in the case of a property crime, the property that is the object of the crime, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person."

If you recall the 2007 West Virginia incident- a 23-year-old black woman was held captive for a week, stabbed, raped, tortured, repeatedly. In that case the hate crime law was not applied despite the overwhelming circumstances. ...Mainly because federal authorities did not want to intervene in a local jurisdiction since the charges and evidence presupposed maximum penalties.

Setting aside emotion and personal experience, I agree with Howard and C.M. A crime is a crime. If someone fractures your eye socket, you worry about 'why' way down the line. But there is something to be said for 'why' in the greater scheme of things.

I remember reading a Rolling Stones article 30 years ago about Altamont that had the line (paraphrasing) "If you pull a knife, you open a door. And if you open that door, you have to accept what comes through it." But what if you aren't the one who opens that door? What if someone kicks that door down? What if that sick f**k chose your door because of what you looked like? Or who your parents were? Or who you chose to befriend or love? Not everybody is John Wayne (god bless his image). Sometimes hate is the only reason they choose your door. Maybe its not in keeping with pure logic or libertarian philosophy, but if someone kicks your door down because of hate and spite, but neglects to or is unable to kill you, I think special consideration should apply. And if they choose to cowardly stand out on the lawn and terrorize you instead, that seems like it deserves special attention,too.
I'm not looking for support or agreement. This is strictly my opinion and I understand that its not entirely logical.

George,
I wasn't talking about you.