CNN's Jim Spellman has been following the teabagger express and he's reporting what bloggers and our readers already know. There is a dark fringe, a radical element that makes up the fabric of the teabagger party who believe in wild conspiracy theories and hate Obama because a black man won the election. They can't handle that Bush isn't in the White House. And wasn't it Bush who said that elections have consequences?
Spellman:...we saw handguns from time to time, but running through this subculture that's developed around these tea parties is a bit of a dark undercurrent. The bulk of the people are for lower taxes and less government control, but there really is an element that's go these kind of outlandish conspiracy theories about death camps and about this take over, people comparing President Obama to Hitler. It really is a sizable...It's not just a couple of people around the edges. One of the big questions will be if this movement go forward while maintaining this kind of element on the edges...
At least Spellman is willing to say the truth instead of trying to put a ribbon on it. This isn't something new. It's been around a long, long time, but before the media gave them a platform they only existed in the radical right militia meetings and dark alleys of the wicked. The media is main streaming them into right our homes. They will continue onward unfortunately for America.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/cnns-jim-spellman-teabaggers-there-real
I'm not sure what's so wrong
I'm not sure what's so wrong with teabaggers. While I don't personally know any right now, there was a short time in college when I was very involved. However, since I've been married I haven't had the pleasure.
Ok, I think I'm ready to be serious now - the reason Mr. Spellman saw these horrible handguns = conservatives believe in the right to bare arms - and we actually do it.
I do believe that the current administration has a systematic plan to change this country from moderately free to authoritarian or marxist. Why do I believe this? Because a large portion of the czars and senior advisers to the President have given speeches on, or written in depth about, changing this country. From the environmental movement, animal rights people, racially charged comments from quite a few people, to the First Lady herself.
In my opinion, if this administration is successful, the United States as we know it will fail. Remember, a free country can not be destroyed from the outside, it must start from the inside and work its way out.
Mr. Spellman did not mention
Mr. Spellman did not mention "horrible guns". He said he saw them but it wasn't the issue.
Sean, why don't you and John organize a teabagger party in the restaurant's parking lot. Invite them to come and carry the signs that were carried in DC.
If you are both so certain that the signs are not offensive, then you will have the support of your communities' business sector and the residents as well.
There is a dark undercurrent. It is frightening to those who lived through the senseless killing of one president and the attempted murder of two others.
That was the issue, not the "horrible guns".
I said this in another thread
I said this in another thread and I'll repeat it here. It's up to the base of the Republican Party (since they represent the largest Party presence) to put their fringe in check, if they even can at this point.
Not to defend any of the
Not to defend any of the fringe element on the right, for years many Republicans called on Democrats to control their own fringe elements. I'm not sure it happened. Here's just one example of <a href="http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/media/… kind of signs the anti-Bush crowd carried around</a>. And if you do a Google Image search for "Bush equals Hitler" you'll find plenty more.
Or how about <a href="http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/wp-content/images2009/nooseLastMohica…;.
Or <a href="http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/wp-content/images2009/hangbushringo.j…;.
Or <a href="http://www.amifobornot.com/images/Bush/bush-funny-face-4.jpg">this</a>.
Or <a href="http://maaadddog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/kill_bush.jpg">this</a>.
Here's <a href="http://www.theodoresworld.net/pcfreezone/vile5.jpg">a rather outrageous protest sign</a>.
I'm certainly no fan of George Bush. My point isn't to defend him or any Republican/Right conduct.
These fringe elements exist on both sides and I'm not sure their conduct is really relevant to any serious debate of the issues.
I think we all agree that the
I think we all agree that the fringe element exists on both sides. That isn't the issue.
The point, it would appear, is that many of us (on both sides) denounce this sort of behavior since it doesn't reflect nor does it promote the idealogies we hold.
Saying it is okay because the other side does it too, isn't the answer. It isn't okay regardless of what side is guilty.
I would like to believe, we as a nation, evolved since the days of outrageous bigotry, violence and racism. I would like to believe that there is no place in our society where the signs - no matter who it is holding them - is considered acceptable.
Why is their conduct relevant to serious debate? The answer is simple, there are non-thinkers who are moving up the chain and working overtime to corrupt and disrupt the serious debates that should be the focus.
Yes, they have the freedom of expression. Ironic, isn't it, that they stand on that right, but will shout down anyone who's views they don't share?
I've stated before that we witnessed the murder of one president, and the attempted murder of two others in our current history. It doesn't matter which side you are on, you have to cringe when you see death threats on posters. Only the non-thinkers could possibly approve of those posters.
Bea RE: Teabaggers: The
Bea RE: Teabaggers:
The 'fabric' of the teabaggers are racist radicals? The very fabric? What broad brush strokes you and the people you quote continue to make, Bea.
Since when is peaceful rejection of increasing taxes, broken promises (by a series of administrations), protesting the cleaving to radical Saul Alinsky adherents working in the current administration (do you want a list of names?), an overwhelming displeasure with our congress (job approval rating 28%), a deficit big enough to bury our great grandchildren and their offspring, the passing of legislation without reading it, ignoring the founding principles of our country in their entirety, (35.4% of Americans like the direction our country is heading) etc. etc. etc.
<b>Why do so many people assume that to dislike the ideology of the current president automatically means that you loved the Bush ideology? Many of us voted for neither of them.</b>
Are there people out there who resent the president solely because of his race? I would say yes, I imagine there are. Were the people who despised President Kennedy solely because he was Catholic? Yes, we know that is true.
I would like to have Mr. Obama over for dinner and visit with his family. I am certain he is a well-intentioned man. I just do not agree with his <b>very, very</b> extreme views. You can judge a man by the company he keeps - and he has a long and continuing list of some very radically left advisers. Remember the cliche - 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'
I was not in Washington and I have no signs which I carry up and down my street. My convictions are written upon my heart and if I read one more time how people who feel like I do are racist, cold-hearted, moronic, fill in another slanderous comment, on this website - I will vomit. These statements are not ones which make people listen; they are divisive and widen a chasm that already exists. It is not a Republican v. Democrat thing; the spectrum is much, much more vast than that.
Look at the polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
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http://farm1.static.flickr.com/27/63799847_3febf12f79_o.jpg
Hatred goes both ways and instead of putting out the fire, you have to be sure you are not fanning flames, instead.
I really liked your posts of recipes Bea and how supportive you are of local people in need of blessings. Maybe you have an autumn recipe you could share - feed the soul while feeding the body? That would be really, really good.
This Non-Voter feels sorry
This Non-Voter feels sorry for any president brave enough to run this country. Bea's recipes are awesome!! I wish Howard would give her, her own spot on the Batavian. Kelley, I like your wording above. You are sooo right.
Bea, maybe I missed a sign.
Bea, maybe I missed a sign. I didn't see any death threat in the pictures you posted above. I didn't see anything racist. For the record - I'm not a fan of Bush either. It's a normal thing for liberals to do - react with emotions instead of facts.
Also for the record, my views are my views, not my employer's views or my staff's views. I would appreciate it if you could keep those separate.
I don't believe there is a
I don't believe there is a progressive on here that hasn't admonished the fringe left in the broader discussion that has been going on across a few threads on here. This is equal opportunity here and we all have agreed that the fringe is a problem on both sides. The problem here and now on this blog, we can't go back to the Bush years. It's past tense and the batavian was not in existence then. If we could I'm sure that the discussions would have been just as spirited.
I strongly disavow the signs from the left that Howard posted. I hated the war, but never marched. If I had attended any protests and saw any signs like that I would not be attending another one and would stay clear of the hate mongers. I can also say pretty emphatically that most of the party faithful would agree.
I adhere to Martin Luther King's philosophy of non-violent resistance. http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/martinlutherking/a/mlks_philosophy.htm
I'm just not so sure that some of the folks trying to delegitimize Obama feel the same.
Sean, I would have to say that the African lion analogy, while not coming right out with anything blatently racial, had very racial undertones. Maybe I'm wrong.
Everyone that disagrees with
Everyone that disagrees with the president's political agenda and policies is not a racist.
Related, here's a long but
Related, here's <a href="http://www.reason.com/news/show/135735.html">a long but thoughtful piece from Reason Magazine</a>. People often try to associate the extreme fringes with the politics of their opponents, and the scary aspect is, it can have or be an attempt to chill opposition speech.
Hi Lorie - I could see the
Hi Lorie - I could see the lion sign being racially charged, I guess it's all how see it. I've also never protested with signs, and I think I would be overwhelmed if I was there also. Don't you think that when you get a large group of protesters together, regardless of the issue or the political views, people get riled up and do over the top things? I'm also not sure if the protesters are fringe right, or if they just got caught up in the moment. I know a few people that went to the war protests in Rochester - they are very quiet people - and there they were on Channel 10 with large signs and chanting.
Also, I'm not sure which side is more racially charged in this debate - is it the right being racist, or the left looking for racist remarks from the right?
I don’t think that
I don’t think that Republicans can be expected to control the racist radicals that make up a very small part of their party. You just should not come to the aid of the nuts in your party. You stay clear of them.
I have been to a lot of Democratic meetings in my life and I don’t remember anyone defending eco-terrorists. The fear here is that everyday Republicans are not seeing these nut jobs in plain sight and worse yet are coming to their aid.