What is wrong with Batavia?

The poll could show an organized effort by the soccer league to vote.

I think a better poll will be in the election in just a few weeks.

Republicans Marianne Clattenburg and Tim Buckley have come out against this as increasing taxes and hurting the neighborhood.

The Democrat candidates still will not let us know where they stand, but it is my personal opinion they support it.

So, let’s see what happens in November.

Of course, a better poll will be this sports field construction itself being put up for a vote, right?

John,

Any idea where Bob Radley stands on this? He's been very quiet about his opinion so far.

John, I don’t think it’s fair to say the Democrats are for the field or not for the field. I think it would be fair to say, they are waiting to see what the plan is. I know for certain that is what Phil Ricci is doing.

I also think it would be a stretch to say that if Marianne and Tim win it will be because of their stand for or against the field. Both those people are very strong candidates because of what they have done up to this point on Council and that has nothing at all to do with this field issue.

Mike-Howard will tell you that these polls aren't scientific, it is entirely possible that supporters of the project could have "jammed" the poll by encouraging supporters to vote in favor of it.

John , You do realize that the fields are going support much more than just soccer games . And what soccer organization are you refering to .Or do you not even know that there is more than one . If the soccer organizations could of known about the poll ahead of it being posted then I could see your point but Howard isn't leaking any info on upcoming polls . Also the talley would have been more lopsided than it was . There were over 700 hundred kids in Batavia playing organized soccer and that number will grow . There are also men's and women's teams out there that must go outside of batavia to find fields .
I would like to know where he Chamber of Commerece stands on this proposal . Soccer games and tournaments generate a ton of revenue from outside teams coming here . Isn't that good for our community also .

J-It's easy, someone sees a poll go up and they start calling and sending out emails, you mentioned that there were over 700 kids playing soccer, that could easily translate into a couple of hundred votes.

Plus, if you know much about web browsers, you could vote over and over again.

Just a note, I'm leaning against the project but still haven't made up my mind entirely. I will say that I admire Bill Cox and Rose Mary Christian for taking such a strong stand.

Daniele , you are correct ,it is possible . I voted once and I am for the fields and I do coach soccer but no one ever contacted me nor did I contact anyone else to vote . I was interested to see what the people thought , not sure what to think now . Either way there was a lot of interest in that poll compared to others . Why wouldn't Mr. Cox rally his supporters to vote against it ( that is his way to influence people on the fence or maybe he did and it didn't work ) on The Batavian .

I'm not saying that he failed to do so in this instance or that the poll was rigged.

All that I'm saying is that one shouldn't take too much stock in the polls on this website, they exist to gauge the opinions of the readers and not the public at-large.

John is right, on election day, we will find out how people really feel.

We do need soccer fields(along with Lacrosse) in Batavia , that is for sure .I know first hand what a stuggle it can be to get a field to play on and anyone who says we don't need them are being told so by someone who doesn't know . I am not sure where else we could put them other than North Street extension . I am open for playing fields anywhere in Batavia but North Street Extension makes the most sense . If anyone has better suggestion where to put some fields ,please tell us .We as a cummunity should not encourage kids to play sports if we are not going support the kids with the proper fields to play on . Should we cut our enrollment in youth sports because we can't support them with fields ?

Yes Daniel , you are right again that we will find out on election day . If it was up to me there would only be playing fields with no locker rooms and no track . That way we can go forward with the project with no vote . But the BOE is trying to give the community something to use there also ( track ) and curtousy to have a say .

My God.....you would think from the comments posted that the city/school board is considering building a 100,000 seat stadium to host the Super Bowl 24/7!

The North St Ext property has sat there for what, over 50 years now. Plan and build something, anything, with the needed parking and amenities and get on with it!

That's why is called an IMPROVEMENT plan.

What's wrong with Batavia? Howard the reason no one wants to move or return to Batavia isn't because they don't have soccer fields. The area has been in a slow economic decline for my entire life time, the large manufacturing facilties closed or left, there are no private sector jobs, the tax rates are among the highest in the country, the public employee unions suck the tax payers dry, the the schools are old and nasty, the infrastructure is in a shambles, major sections of the town are in disrepair and need to be knocked down (harvester, swan, the mall, etc), and the weather is so bad most of the country can't understand why anyone would ever even consider living there. This link shows the sports complex in Mansfield, Texas http://www.bigleaguedreams.com/ which is located adjacent to the high school football field http://www.mansfieldisd.org/athleticsweb/misdstadium/misdstadiumhome.htm. The athletic fields in batavia haven't' changed in over 50 years. The main reason people don't want to move to or return to Batavia is simply because they can find or have found a better quality of life elsewhere.

The issue here is not a “park”, its Soccer.

If the school board was really all that concerned over the lack of parks, they would just donate the land to the city for that purpose, but they will not.

And it’s not the need for a place to walk around a track; we have two of them already in the City.

This is all about soccer and lack of soccer fields. So the only real question is do we want a soccer complex at the end of North Street, and how much we want to pay for it. While the initial construction might be paid for by grants, the year to year cost of maintenance will not be. That will be paid by us in the city.

Mr Ricci.....the Batavia City School District has a $40 Million Dollar SURPLUS in the bank.

Batavia residents should not pay another dime for any quality of life improvements.

And I'll keep blasting the CITY/SCHOOL BOARD (not residents) over high taxes, and you should too. In my community, my taxes don't increase while 3-4 new schools, huge new parks, libraries, recreational facilities, roads, etc. are built EVERY year. Why should your taxes increase for ANY project? They shouldn't!

The next thing you know....they will be increasing your school taxes to buy new pencils.

Is the North St. Ext property going to sit there for another 50 yrs? If I'm a bettin man.......

Its simple charge the soccer teams, players, parents a fee to pay for the maintenance costs. The problem is soccer associations and parents want something for nothing.

Unfortunately for WNY residents, Mr. Gahagan is right on. Ditto to you sir.

Chris,
In answer to your question on Mr. Radley, nobody seems to know where he stands on anything.

I see Rose Mary Christian walking the district (and I am voting for her), but have not seen him yet. Of course, he might be out and just has not been to my street yet.

Tim, I drive by 4 brand new schools with all the fixins, ball fields, tennis courts, soccer fields, golf ranges every day on my way to work. Families relocate here for that reason alone. Mansfield ISD has 39 schools and grows by approximately 2,600 students each year. http://www.mansfieldisd.org/schools.htm. The parents and kids in Batavia would be amazed at the facilities that are being built elsewhere in the country without hesitation.

Is this a city of batavia soccer league..How many kids are in the league..What happened to the land on River street that the school district bought.Richard has got it right, no one will move to this city until there are jobs,not soccer fields.Whats wrong to leave it as is..I don't see a rush to develop Centennial Park.That park doesn't have a blacktop path to walk around it..So why do we need one for this site..
Mr.Ricci any way you look at it,it will cost tax dollars..Weather is school,city ,state,or federal tax dollars it will cost...

Richard, you addressed your comment to me, but I didn't write this post.

But, you wrote, "the reason no one wants to move or return to Batavia,"

And I'll politely call bullshit on this remark. I moved here. I've met a dozen or more people who have relocated here in my time here. Further, I've met an equal number of younger people who talk about how they moved away and decided to come back. I was just at an event last night were a couple of 20somethings talked about either staying or coming back because they love it here -- and it's not just about their family being here.

Richard and Tim, your constant running down of Batavia, when you don't even live, here gets old. You don't know, really, what you're talking about and you don't have money on the table or a ball in the game to really have credibility with your constant harping, negative attitudes. There's a lot more good and positive going on in Batavia than you're really aware of because you're not here every day doing your part to make a difference.

I drove around the North Street neighborhood today and I thought, "My God, why wouldn't these people want a first-class part/athletic facility in their neighborhood?" It's just what the neighborhood needs to enhance the value of the homes and neighborhood. If I lived over there, I'd be taking up a collection to help pay for it. The proposed North Street Extension is probably under scaled for the neighborhood and should be expanded.

WE NEED JOBS!!! Not circles signs and fields

Mary, what are you doing to try and create jobs? Have you written a business plan yet for the new company you're going to start to create jobs?

oh btw theres more place to shop in the TOWN of Batavia
I do most mine out of town anyway

I'm going to get a bumper sticker made, I think: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, bitch and moan"

I have been reading these comments for the last couple of days. There are quite of few down right stupid and actually offensive remarks made on here. My husband and I are a young couple with a 1 year old and a new baby on the way in Feb. We are currently building a home in this area.I am still not sure exactly how I feel about this park,as we are a new family with small children it would be very nice to have a park this close. On the other hand the main reason that we are moving to this community is because it is a very quiet neighborhood with very little traffic. The taxes are extremely high but we are willing to pay them for the security and peace and quiet. Will this park really increase the value of the homes or decrease them because it will obviously take away a lot of the privacy that is so appealing? Now to get to the real reason why I am commenting. Richard who is not even a Batavia resident had offended me deeply with some of the things he said for example the comment about Swan St. being in disrepair. I take this personally, my husband who is a contractor and his father have spent many years and quite a bit of money fixing a lot of the run down property on Swan St. compared to the way it used to be I think that they have improved it quite a bit and deserve some recognition for this. There are still some places that could usea little more attention, slowly but surely things are getting cleaned up, I just had to say my piece about this people who don't live here should not even have an opinion about this or anything that goes on here. Also for the comment made the other day that implies that people that live in the area are snobs and "uptight not in my back yard people" honetly we are families that have worked hard to get where we are and wanted to move to a safe quite neighborhood, and this project may or may not jeapordize that. If that means we are uptight then so be it!

Mr Owens.......I meet a dozen people or so a WEEK who move here.

Maybe Mr Gahagan and I don't know what we're talking about...but...our comments on this topic today have been factually accurate, and you know it too.

Batavias population declines every year.

What a terrible thing to waste..........

Howie, not bashing just giving people a different perspective from an area of the country that is thriving economically due to a business friendly state regulatory climate and a favorable corporate tax structure, which is intended to attract major corporations and young professionals with families. Three new schools are currently under construction now within 5 miles of where I live. Each one will have top of the line athletic facilities on an extensive school campus.

Mike,
That was the point I was trying to make. The need for a park was how some people tried to sell this idea.

This is a school board sports complex plan. All the rest:
The selling lots for some housing, the track, etc was to me an effort to change the focus. This will be a sports field.

So, it comes down again to how much do we want to spend on sports? I don't live near the property, so the only thing that will effect me in all of this is my school tax bill.

Richard , I love how you comment on things that you have no clue about . As a matter of fact the soccer teams and or organizatios that run soccer teams outside of the school teams , do pay maintanace fees for anything above and beyond the daily maintenance . I can't say the same about all the other sports because I don't know .I do want to point out that Richard said people move to where he lives because of the facilities , isn't that interesting !!!!! Richard I understand also from your comments that you do not like soccer , is that because you don't get a pat on the bottom everytime a player makes good play .

John , I understand your concern for more spending and increased tax bill . That is a legit. concern , but for what the community will get for such a minor increase if any would benefit all . Some like yourself might not be affected by the positives of new fields directly , but indirectly you might be . I am so glad we are not discussing landfill issues as did Albion not so long ago . All of this debate is good . We need to make good use of our people and this site is a gateway for people to express themselves and values . All and all anyone who is concerned about the project are good people who are concerned about the community that we live in .

Richard I can't tell why you even care!!!

J was trying to help the main point against the new SSSSSSoccer Complexsss isss tax payers not wanting to fund it. If ya pay your own way that goes out the door. So now all ya have to deal with is the "uppities" (people with jobs and not on public assistance) not wanting all the snot nose rug rats from all over the county coming to their neighborhood to run around in circles and kick each other in the chins, while their parents scream at the top of their lungs for them to get the funny looking ball.

Reagan , I personally apoligize for the uptight remark . I really don't think that it applies to all . But it was a knee jerk reaction to the statement "not in my backyard " . I don't understand what the phrase is supposed to mean but it kind felt like the people were saying we are to good to let this happen in our neighborhood . I grew up over there and there are a lot of uptight people over in the Naramore Dr. area as with everyy neighborhood . I actually think it is good to have uptight people in the area . They kind of police the neighborhood and make sure it is safe . So I appoligize for the insult it was not intended to ridicule . Tell Paul I said Hi and we do need more playing fields .

In most newly planned communities parks are integrated into each neighborhood. Athletic fields on the other hand are located in less populated areas outside of residential zones to reduce the potential impacts from noise, traffic, trash, and lighting that could disturb otherwise quiet neighborhoods.

Richard.....I don't think anyone here knows what a "planned community" is.

Richard, you said,
“Three new schools are currently under construction now within 5 miles of where I live. Each one will have top of the line athletic facilities on an extensive school campus.”

What are you doing about that? Do you have any idea what that’s going to do to your taxes? I’ll bet those schools will be filled with Unionized labor as well. So, you stood by while the taxes rose out of control here, then left town. Now you’re doing the same thing in Texas. Where you going to move next?

Come on Charlie your smarter than that, people have upper level corporate jobs that pay well and the schools are enrolling on average 2,600 new students a year. Thirty percent of the population is not totally dependent on government jobs that over burden a dwindling tax payer population. Housing is extremely reasonable and new homes are going up at a mind blowing pace to expand the tax base. Plus there isn't any state income tax, so what is that, any easy 10% raise for everyone.

Charlie.....I'll answer the 1st part of your question for Richard. I don't think his taxes will go up at all. I have 4 new schools under construction within 8 miles of me, along with top of the line athletic facilities on an extensive school campus. This goes on year after year after year. My property and school taxes have actually gone down the last few years. The tax base is always expanding thru new housing and businesses. That's the beauty to it all. If fact, there are discussions of eliminating property taxes. If that goes thru, after age 62, I wouldn't have any property or school taxes to pay.

Ahh....what a great country, America.

Yeah what Tim said, Chuck take a trip south of Attica and I don't mean Varysburg, you might not come back. I was amazed the first few months here. This is one of the newer High Schools, they don't mess around either everything is top of the line no pinchin pennies.

http://www.mansfieldisd.org/schools/mansfield/index.htm

http://www.mansfieldisd.org/athleticsweb/mansfield/mshome.htm

I am writing in response to Howard’s question, "My God, why wouldn't these people want a first-class part/athletic facility in their neighborhood?” In my case, it would be the sudden, sporadic increase in people that bring with them noise, traffic, garbage and frequently vandalism. Did you happen to stop by the field Howard? Lovely isn’t it?

Here we go, we hicks - again!
They seem to forget from where they sprang.
Tim,
I lived in a planned community called Chesterbrook. It was very upscale, built on Misery Mountain across the valley from Valley Forge National Park.
You'd be amazed to learn that we hicks from Batavia actually did leave the city and then chose to return.
I also lived in a gated community just outside of San Jose.
But, never once, when working for major companies and living away from home did I lose sight of my roots.
Never once did I ever feel that I was above them. This is my home, regardless of where I lived. I care about this city and the people who reside here.
Since you and Richard care so much about your adopted home towns, and have so little regard for the City of Batavia and those who live here, I would strongly suggest that both of you focus your energies and opinions on your new locations and let the rest of us work on improving our city.
We may disagree on the process, but ALL of us have the ultimate goal in mind...making our city, our hometown better.

Now, I can't rightly says as I ever lived in one of dem dere Gates Co-mun-it-ees, but dang if I ain't seen a darn sight few of um when I was trapsin' throu' dem hills of Cal-if-forn-i-a. They got demselves a mess'o dem. Can't say as they ever rightly appealed to me.

Jim, those issues can be mitigated. And how you make sure they are mitigated is to be part of the process.

I figure Richard and Tim must hate me. Here I am a reasonable person who had a good career and I decided I'd rather live in Batavia than my native California, or Texas or Florida or Georgia or any place else they would care to name. It really upsets all their protestations that people won't move here, don't want to live here, etc. The vast majority of us who are here, whether relocated or native, like it here. It just really a mess of inconvenient truth that flies in the face of any of the negativism Richard and Tim can throw out. I think their negativism says a lot more about them than it does Batavia.

Oh...I plan on being part of the process.

Oh, so you're going to help get the facility built?

lol, Howard. The only reason I was in a gated community was that it was THREE (3) blocks from the office and, unlike many in California, I could walk to work.
My duplex in the 'planned community' was convenient too.
All I had to do was walk out my back door, walk up a small portion of the mountain and I was at my office.

I can't wait to see what Batavia will look like in a few years. Druggies are seemingly flocking to Batavia from Rochester....My son played on the traveling soccer league this year-had to play at Farrell Park-by far the worst field they played on. Build some nice fields,and I'm sure you would be able to get tournaments and other events that would help bring IN money to Batavia-

Are your panties in a wad Bea McManus? I never called anyone a hick and neither did my comments insinuate it.

But, you can call yourself a hick if you want.

What committees, organizations, boards, etc are you active in to improve Batavia??

If all of "you" have the ultimate goal of making Batavia better. When is it going to start?? My god, garbage collection has been talked about for 20 years and the North St ext, has been vacant for over 50. And, how is the memorial brick plaza shaping up??

Like Mr Freeman said when he started this post. It seems that Batavia has a hesitency to look forward and make decisions that will grow the community.

Moving slower than molasses in January.

Don't forget...you have 22 days to pay your school taxes.

I'm sorry, Mr. Raines, but your cohort, Mr. Gahagan has referred to us as "hicks" quite often.
I responded to your question about living in a planned community. Many of us, I'm sure, have at one time or another.
Furthermore, Mr. Raines, I have never treated you with nothing more than respect. I would expect the same in return.
Being part of the process of improving Batavia isn't easy. I was one of many who fought a long and hard battle to keep urban renewal money from being spent on the atrocity known as the mall.
But, rather than giving up, one continues to live here and fight for a better community. Quite often, the first battle is maintaining the spirit needed.
You and Mr. Gahagan lack that spirit. Which is why I still recommend you continue to cheer for your adopted communities and leave the business of Batavia to those who care.

Richard and Tim, you don’t expect us to believe you don’t miss home? Home is here for both of you. You come to this site to see the life you left behind. It doesn’t matter how much opportunity you both have were you are at, this place with all its faults is where you both belong. I understand Richard and that’s why I turn a blind eye to his venting. He cares about this town more than most who live here.

I have lived in many different places and have visited just about every state and there is no better place than right here. Life is a little slower and the people are a little more emotional. Yes, our taxes are higher and there are less financial opportunities. None of us are getting rich anytime soon. Maybe that’s not so important after all. But, I’m pretty sure I’m not telling either of you something you don’t know.

Mr. Mallow....point well taken.

While I don't live in Batavia, I think that it's fair to say that LeRoy and all of our surrounding villages all share commonalities. What may not be so unique any more across areas in the country where there has been a lot of growth is the sense of community that our established municipalities offer and with it the quality of life that keeps many of us here.

My brother has lived in Atlanta for the past 15 years, first in Vinings and now in Marietta. I have visited often and thought once or twice of relocating as I saw the chance for maybe more opportunities. My son and his wife live in a planned community in Florida. I see the placements of recreational spaces, the streets all named similarly (usually some variation of the name of the development). The homes with all the same features carefully color coded so people can actually find their way to their driveway as they intertwine around themselves. I always ask how far out until we see contained, walkable villages. Or if I choose to shop, I always head for Marietta's Square or old town Kissimmeee so it feels like (at least at one time) that there was actually a community. Usually if you find the original communities you also find arts and culture that you never see in the sprawl.

In my opinion -- I find urban sprawl with the repetitious, sterile cul-de-sac communities and their developer surnames displayed from their architectural entrance gates, to be the very last place that I would ever choose to live.

I wonder how much debating over parks or any community developments even take place in these suburban sprawl environments and if ordinary people even have a voice. These are the same areas where local governments usually start at the county level. No council people or local school boards to redress your neighborhood grievances or concerns to.

Amen, Lorie.

In Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam talks about about these faux community developments that are called things like "Market Village" or "Pleasantown Commons" and appeal to people's search for community, but they never really deliver people community. You shop in their centers and never see the same people twice -- often not even the employees -- and go home to your cookie cutter home, use your automatic garage door opener, walk into your living room, flop in front of the TV and never even see your neighbors.

That's not community.

And there's sociological research to back it up.

What is wrong with Batavia, HMMM let's see. That Mall was a joke when it was built and still is. All the small mom and pop retail is gone, replaced by way to many big box stores all at one end of town. Take a look at all of the empty store fronts on main street think that will change anytime soon? Sylvania, Doehler and Trojan accounted for thousands of jobs, all gone. Take a drive around the streets lots of houses for sale, yet the population is growing? The population has not grown in years yet they keep adding big box retail. Now they want soccer fields because there is a need? I have an idea why not build soccer, baseball and football fields all down by the big box retail next to the Thruway on all that vacant land. Keep the land in the city for house building when needed. I can't blame the people against that proposal.

All the small mom-and-pop retail is gone, Ken? Like Valle Jewelers, and House of K, and Charles Men's Shop, and Optique, and Main St. Pizza, and Alberty Drugs, and Larry's Steakhouse, and 3D Liquor, and Margarita's, and the Mane Attraction, etc.

Everybody always talks about all of these supposedly vacant store fronts down town.

Um ... the former there are three our for vacant places near Liberty, but then pickens get slim if you're looking for a location to open. Main Street Coffee if vacant, and there are arguable vacancies at Carr's, but Ken Mistler has plans in the works there, and the Monterello building on Jackson is empty, and the former Smith Barney location is empty. But what else is there? Most of the store fronts have thriving businesses.

I'm no fan of big boxes, of course, but Batavia, both town and city, is still bless with a pretty thriving local business community, for more so than many rural communities in the country.

And yes, a lot of great factory jobs left, but where are the entrepreneurs starting new manufacturing jobs? We wrote about Prime Materials the other day, and there are a few such small shops in the area, but obviously we need more. We need some entrepreneurs to step forward and take some risks. Those people will have to come from our own community.

I have to agree with Howard. If you are looking for what’s wrong with Batavia, it’s not that Big Box stores have moved in and pushed a lot of small businesses out. Go anywhere in this country and you will see the same thing.

Our culture has changed, we like to drive to large stores and shop for bargains. People care less about support, quality and service, than they did in the past. We are now a throwaway society. People like to shop at Big Box stores and for the most part we have abandoned our downtowns. People decry the loss of small businesses but, then vote with their feet by shopping at Big Box stores. The small downtowns that have survived have drawn in small specialty stores and I think that’s what the BID tries everyday to attract.

As for the loss of manufacturing, that has nothing to do with Batavia either. The whole country is in the same boat. Our economy is pretty much service based.

The two issues are also related. Our push for lower cost goods has pushed small businesses under. That change has also made the production of those goods and services impossible to do here in America. Like it or not we are the cause of our own problems.

Depressing thats the best word to describe it. That's it right there, that's whats wrong, down right depressing gray and dreary. And then its winter.

There's nothing depressing about Batavia, Richard. There's a lot more to be depressed about in Houston or San Antonio.

Richard, you have people living on the streets and eating out of garbage cans in big cities all over the country. People in Batavia are not rich, most live paycheck to paycheck. But, there is nothing particularly depressing about Batavia.

I have to agree with Richard.. Nobody in this area cares about building anything that might boost the area in another way. Yeah, who cares that the youth of today are the adults of tomorrow. Nuff said!!