See you at the Pole

Not so quiet a time

I thought religion had to do with beliefs
If you need encouragement to keep hold of your beliefs how strong are your attachments to them

"It is very powerful to see teenagers in prayer together for all their friends to see."

For me this borders on sickness

Shouldn't everyone stand for their beliefs every moment of the day? Why do you feel the need to stand together? I don't need to literally stand with other people that share my views
If I am the only one that shares my views I'm OK with that

I just don't get it
But have fun and
more power to you

"If you need encouragement to keep hold of your beliefs how strong are your attachments to them?"

REALLY? Maybe you should ask the parishoners of your local church, regardless of denomination.

"For me this borders on sickness"
I doubt that anyone gathering there suffers any kind of sickness. The sickness in the world feeds off of hatred and narrow mindedness.

That is your opinion....which fortunately, you are content standing alone in your views. Good for you.

Woah woah woah, fact check time everyone.

Christians make up a massive majority in this country, persecution is a strong word to describe what could happen to such a huge majority (note, I am one).

Don't attack Lazario if you feel like he is attacking our faith, do as the Lord did, forgive those who trespass against you.

Praying around the flagpole is a great way to express faith, sometimes though, there are certain people of our faith that have gone way too far, I'm sure that Lazario's opinion is based on the works of them.

If your faith is strong you don't need helping hands
You have conviction
You are an ARMY OF ONE
Sure, that motto failed

but only because people didn't understand what it meant
Their understanding of its meaning was shallow

Who encouraged Jesus?
I believe he had strong convictions and didn't need encouragement of thousands to hold strong
THAT IS POWER
Not a circle around a flagpole

If kids are not being persecuted for their beliefs
Why do you need to encircle a flagpole?
Are you saying surrounding counties
-those OUT THERE somehwere?
dont have this same protection?

Why do you feel people should be public with their beliefs?

If being open is important for a people and everyone should have the right to be open of themselves
What are your views on public displays of affection between two burly gay men
Well, I bet your entire church
-and I mean all those people OUT THERE SOMEWHERE
Don't quite have the same opinion

Why do I need to attend church?

For every one of me
Whatever you think I am

I'll show you a bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing

I don't believe in any god, Sherry

"Religious" outnumber me millions to one
I'm cool

As for sickness you don't understand or dont want to understand my POV

Who hates whom here? I don't hate religious people
I just think they're not being strong enough
Do you feel the same way towards me or do you actually think a person like me is evil for not believing in god and therefore needs to stand up against the devil inside or some crap like that

There is a difference

Why are you fortunate to only have one of me around?
That doesn't sound like hatred AT ALL

I didn't write the original post nor am I the one that included personal opinions within it

Nancy, what you are doing is great! We need more people like you to take an interest in our youth, when prayer becomes more and more encessary every day, having to face the many things they are facing in schools today. I fell bad for Lazario that he does not know our God, and feels empowered by criticizing the good things you and others are doing. Keep up the good work! I will keep you and your group in my prayers.

I was, by no means attacking anyone. I am simply stating my opinion, which apparently is ok for some people and not for others. I did not mean to infer that you attend church, only that if you are curious as to why people gather together to share thier religion, then simply ask a parishoner. You misconstrued what I was saying. Your personal beliefs are fine with me. I frankly am not overly concerned because I can heed Dan's advice and sleep quite soundly. If anyone has been offended by my opinion I sincerely apologize. And Thanks Dan for the reminder!:)
Nancy...I hope that you have a tremendous turnout!

PrayingI personally do not see anything wrong with praying.Whats wrong with it?One nation under god with liberty and justice for..... and i really need to learn that part about forgiving still dan it could free me....pray all you want it's a free country.

o man religion and polotics.Nobody ever talks about these subjects enough.I try not to.Cause then you can get a resentment, then they get one.Then it never ends in something nice does it?So they can believe in nothing all they want.I believe there has to be a god.I'm still here.After all the things that have happened to me.I should have been gone 14 times.I guess they'll find out in the end.I'd rather not wait till then....I gotta go my butt hurts.It took me forever to post that one about the civil war guys bye

Its nice to see children praying for something before they get in trouble. (smile)

Even if you dont believe in GOD its not a negative thing to allow or organize others who do.

The flag pole is just an Extra bonus.

God bless the children and all whom organized this event.

Feel free to pray for our Country and for me.
I will do the same !

I see it as coersion
School-aged children
peer-pressure

This country is not under god

I don't read the bible never have -never will
so will never "know" the bible
but that partial quote sounds a lot like the "safety in numbers" talk we get when going out for candy etc
I'd obviously have to hear more of the passage before understanding it
Which you left out
basically saying that you -christians- hold power of knowledge and for me to become knowledgeable I'm going to have to read the passage for myself
which probably means I'm going to have to read the entire bible to understand its every nuance
which equates to a greater probability of me converting to the religion once I've internalized the thing because doing something for nothing is a waste of time

So whats it mean?

well i for one will be praying for you

Why should I know your god, Melissa?

I feel bad for you that you need a crutch of this type to keep from slipping into something awful

Lots of things have been done that plenty of people have agreed with

and I'll be praying/rooting for you in my own way, Brenda

Nor would I turn any praying schoolkid away in their time of need

Wait

REALLY? Maybe you should ask the parishoners of your local church, regardless of denomination

Are you guys falling prey to the evils that I and other like-minded individuals bring into the world?

I don't get it.

I'm all for opinions
I'm also all for debating
comes with the territory

..."if you are curious as to why people gather together"

I think we all know why people gather together
It's no different for religions than it is for every other aspect of life

You got that right Daniel I pray 3 times a day plus I'm a JESUS freak and proud out it even if peeps here hate GOD and I can see this in some of there posts... 1 in this thread come to mind but then again you can't attack people that don't believe just pray for them.

Posted by daniel cherry yesterday:
PrayingI personally do not see anything wrong with praying.Whats wrong with it?One nation under god with liberty and justice for..... and i really need to learn that part about forgiving still dan it could free me....pray all you want it's a free country.

What does the "wait" in your statment mean?

Posted by lazario ladou about 10 hours ago:
Nor would I turn any praying schoolkid away in their time of need

Wait

what help could I possibly be

I had to look around for a while so that I can put this in the words of believers

You asked where a Christian is to go for help. To God's word. They (self-help books) claim to have the answer for you, but they do not lead you to God or to His word. Lets look and see what God has to say about that: (Jeremiah 17:5-9 NIV) This is what the LORD says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD. {6} He will be like a bush in the wastelands; he will not see prosperity when it comes. He will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives. {7} "But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him. {8} He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit." {9} The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

Here is the bottom line, the world will tell you that your problem is low self-esteem, but that is a lie. If you esteem Christ above all else and follow His commandments: to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself, then you will be in the right position. Self-esteem tends to lead people away from God not towards Him. God sent His only Son to die a horrible death for you, because of the sins you have committed, what more do you need to know?

It is not wrong to share your pain and hurts with others, that often does help, but the only being that can heal your hurts is God. He owes you nothing, but He loves you and therefore offers you a place in His family as a child. He is a loving Father who wants to help you, but you have to be willing to give up your victim hood and your will to His.

So what I'm saying here basically is

How can a true believer be in need

WHAT ?

Thats what I say also "WHAT"?!?!?!

I just replied to your other same what and now you're going to make me tell you yet again what I mean

Prove what I have said/parts of it incorrect or have misunderstood or aspects which you disagree with for whatever reasons and maybe we will get somewhere since answering your whats doesn't seem to help no matter how said

Cursed is the one who trusts in man
who depends on flesh for his strength

Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD
whose confidence is in him
He will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream.
It does not fear when heat comes

"The Lord uses these -down- times to mold you
into His image.
He is changing you day by day into the person He
wants you to be.
You need to stand firm in your conviction to do
things God's way."

If a believer came to someone asking for help
for strength
Wouldn't a good true religious person only point them to god and not try to placate their problems?

Doesn't ALL happiness come through knowledge of god for a so-called believer
An atheist can "love" and do "good things" yet those good things are not even considered for entry into heaven because those deeds were not done through/at the will of etc God
So
For a believer
The only way you can get through a hardship is to get closer to god -be a better believer- than you were
Nothing else is going to help you live happily because happy is only when in gods kingdom and god doesn't keep visitors in his kingdom
or something along those lines

Point stuff out and I'll keep trying my best

OK, even tho I believe in GOD know one really really knows what happens when your 6" under but there seem to be more evidence then anything that there is a transformation to a different place and ya hell is in this too. I have learned alot from going to church as for atheist man who knows what happens like I said you would have to talk to a scholar on something like this.

I have looked up different things on the net about the after life and they seem to pint to the same thing.

Some say they only believe in things they see.... Well how about the things they feel? I have felt and seen some very strange things in my time... I could go on and on but I will just leave it at this.

Tom

Tommy dont waste your time and good will picking at scabs:0

Ya I'm starting to see that now Ron

Posted by ron c welker about 58 minutes ago

Tommy dont waste your time and good will picking at scabs:0

We'll be joining you Wednesday a.m. in Prayer, for our Youth, their Teachers, Administration and for this Country.

God Bless,

mdc

If you believe in god YOU HAVE TO KNOW what happens
TO YOU
when 6 feet under

Religion does not care about evidence, Tom
Evidence of god is in the faith that he exists

As for me
I'll just be decomposing down there in a box till the box rots or scattered then decomposing directly into the ground

The belief in a "GOD" "supreme being" or religion in general does not focus on a physical outcome.

The scientific proof of the human body being buried, burned or whatever does not explain what happens to the "spirit" or "soul".

Faith is a powerful "state of mind".

If your exsistence ends at your rotting corpse in the ground then too bad for you.

Gabor D Deutsch

LOL
WHO ARE YOU, Ron?

You two seem to be friends and that's great but you're not his keeper
Tom is capable of speaking for himself

If you're going to protect him
shouldn't you protect him by giving him strength
not simply removing him
You cannot defeat the devil by removing yourself from the fight

If nobody has anything to share but one-liners/insults as in
"I'll pray for you"
Which is clearly meant to insult as there is no need to tell one you will be praying for them in order to do so
I have trouble thinking of any of you professing faith as real believers
More so part-time believers/pick&choose believers/hypocrites

Here is this

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

-This instruction is in reference to sharing the faith with those who are without Christ.
"To be lights in a dark world"

Preaching can be done in various ways.
1)Sharing your testimony of accepting Jesus
2)Being a living example and letting people see Jesus in you
3)Through sermons by Pastors, teachers, etc
4)Purposely seeking people to share with
5)Through casual conversations with people
I sincerely doubt that ONLY preaching by 2 of the 5 or so ways given is cutting the mustard

*great patience and instruction.

WASTE TIME?????? Is this a joke?

Yet who has given the most time to YOUR beliefs here?
I feel as though I'm reading this stuff to better enhance YOUR udnerstanding of the religion

I'm not only giving my views but I'm giving you things to attack me with so long as what I'm saying is incorrect in some way

This page seems pretty good for both our needs so I'll just link to the entire thing

http://www.mts.net/~acts1711/The_Need_for_Sound_Biblical_Doctrine.htm

I'm saying for me being buried means life and all forms of existence has ended

For a believer you can NOT know what happens to your soul etc
If you have questions yet you have not given enough of yourself to your god/religion

Too bad for me? I think its great for me
You cannot belittle me into your religion
with stuff like this

I respect your views.
I just dont agree.
Thats no problem for me.
I hope it is not a problem for you.
I am content.
I believe in what I choose.
I can disagree but respect other peoples beliefs.
I am more than flesh and bone.
Gabor D Deutsch

Dont feed the trolls

Please, don't let this turn into a slugfest of personal attacks, an online Crusades, Jihad, etc, etc. I participated in this event last year, and I believe it is a great way to encourage people not to be reluctant in showing their beliefs. Its not forcing our beliefs on anybody, just a quiet, peaceful event. Lazario, whoever you are, please do not ridicule participants, since you claim to not believe in a God, you aren't the most knowledgable person on this subject. You say you should't need to stand together to show your faith? Try going to high school again and publicly display belief in God. There is more pressure on high school kids today than ever before to fit in, be popular, etc, and people are ridiculed and verbally abused everyday for being Christians. I am a junior at Oakfield-Alabama and I have seen it happen before, so please don't try to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the abuse these kids take. This country was founded on Christianity, yet today more and more people are persecuted (yes, its possible for a majority to be persecuted by a minority) for believing in that same religion. Hats off to anybody who participates in See You at the Pole, and thank you Mrs. Baxter for the support, I will certainly be there as long as I have the chance to do so..

Furthermore, Larazio, we are not attempting to "belittle you into our religion." You are the one belittling others for having a belief and being vocal in their support of it.

I'M A JESUS FREAK AND PROUD OF IT

First thing I do in the morning is drop to my knees after I get out of bed and pray

After I get out of work I pray

When I goto bed I pray

I'm not telling people they're worthless
I'm asking questions to find out who is a true believer
because if I can prove to the smallest degree that people are not who they say they are
My initial point gets validated

I don't care if you pray or not
I don't ask
Simply don't care

I do care when people say things about the world that I believe to be simply untrue/unfounded

again
When people profess something and then leave without offering anything in support I get extremely skeptical and set out to see who is and who isn't

You just don't understand what I'm doing, I guess

Who is a troll

I'm a troll?
Troll is not even in my vocabulary

all you can do/wish to do to counter me is try to assassinate my character?
Typical

You don't care, yet you harass them with your petty accusations of not being true to their word? If you truly don't care, you should see your way out of this discussion, rather than playing the antagonist on the basis of a whim.

Zsa Zsa ;) you can believe whatever you want
I don't really care

I do care when people call themselves a doctor yet have no credentials
you know?
It's fraudulent
A con-job

I'm not speaking directly to you -necessarily

I would certainly hope you aren't speaking directly to me, I'm a high school student, and I haven't claimed to be anything.

If everyone doesn't mind, perhaps I can add my two cents without everyone feeling like their being dogged.....(note to everyone again, I am one)

On Christians being "harrased": I'll say it again, Christians represent well over 70 percent of the country, its very hard to say that Christians are "persecuted" or any sense of the term, when one faith has that big of a nation-wide majority, then persecution becomes totally impossible.

On Christianity or religion in general in Public Schools: Allow me to address the legalities first, the Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that a student has the right to organize a prayer related activities or pray themselves without fear of punishment (as long as they aren't causing physical violence or panic). The basis for this ruling came from the Free Speech Excercise Clause. That being said, school public officials can't force anyone to do anything, including pray or not pray and that goes for any particular faith or religious doctrine.

In my mind, the extent of the rulings are pretty fair, it gives people personal liberty into what they feel their own beliefs should be. A good summary of the legalities can be found here. http://www.nccjstl.org/communications/publicpolicy/religionschools/summ…

On forgiveness: The Lords prayer instructs us to pray for forgiveness for "those who trespass against us,", trespassing can be mental or bodily harm. I believe in an open society and debate. On that note, the Bible also instructs we as Christians to open our hearts and minds to all. If you read what Lazario has been saying he actually makes some good points on faith in general.

I'll be flat out honest, some elements of Christianity have corrupted the faith by making a public spectacle out of religion for personal gain. Even so, if you feel like he is attacking you, pray for his forgiveness and turn the other cheek....the important thing is that you have an undeniable faith in the Lord in your own heart. If your faith can't stand up to questioning then its probably not very strong at all.

Bottom Line: Lets have a rational and open minded discussion, this anger and hatred towards anyone when it comes to matters of faith resolves nothing.

Ben
Point out my personal attacks

One of my posts here was deleted because
I assume
I said God Damn

OKAY
fair enough

others?
Point em out and I'll admit to em but you will not get off that easily

I don't see god making provisions for whether something is tough to do
SO
If you NEED support from other men in order to practice your religion

Well, I just don't see anythere there and would call these types pick&choosers/followers of anything popular

When believing in someting
To have REAL CONVICTION
you must fight ..even to point if need be of dying for your beliefs
If you don't have enough desire to go that far for your god than I just cannot see a person as a true believer
in anything

reluctant?
seems awfully shaky

Its not forcing our beliefs on anybody, just a quiet, peaceful event

Standing on school property under the flagpole as if to be an american you need to be religious
whats worse
ANYONE is invited to join? ANYONE? Where does 38 year old Chuck stand?
What a show of force!

what time was it being held? Lunchtime? after school? weekend? summer hours?
NOPE
start of the day when all the kids begin arriving
putting a zeal through the air for the entire day

quiet? you have people posting on the internet hoping for as large a group they can get

Ridicule or rebuke?
If a christian etc is allowed
-not only allowed but told the importance of doing so by god

I'm allowed
two-way street

since you claim to not believe in a God, you aren't the most knowledgable person on this subject.
Seems as though many of those who do believe in god arent;

C'mon! Wrong on many levels

America was not founded on christianity
Kids do lots of stupid, mean things while in school
Cool kids pick o nnerds
I don't see nerds holding hands looking for support to be who they are inside

It's power-grubbing
Kids can't keep from smoking because they're so easily influenced and you think they can resist "seeing all their friends ..holding hands in prayer for the lives of the evildoers to be saved"

Thanks, Daniel
lets see what you got

Have to read later, though

petty?

Interchangable with unimportant, meaningless

I really don't want to give a history lesson, but America was founded on Christianity, if you dispute that then you are just plain ignorant. Also, its not power grubbing. With your smoking reference, advertisements for smoking are everywhere, and they target kids in particular. In our school, you won't find "advertisements" for Christianity. You will maybe see a piece of computer paper on a wall informing members of Student Fellowship that there is a meeting afterschool, that's it. Furthermore, smoking is an action that is harmful to the body, Christianity is a religion. Those two are not comparable. Some kids consider smoking to be cool. Unfortunately, not many kids say Christianity is "cool." These references of yours are not valid. Also, with the nerd reference, what is stopping them for standing together? Words? Christians don't let that stop them. Just please, stop accusing Christians of being power hungry bullies with a halo over their head.

Psalms 23:3a.

He restores my soul.
- To restore; to bring back or renew. The more I chase Him, the more He gives back. Today it is my youthfulness

I applaud you Ben for being a young adult and taking a stand on this issue. I hope you and many other young people show up at the pole. Continue your efforts-they do make a difference and never back down from who you are or what you believe in.

Nancy, I applaud you for organizing the event and taking a stand for the young kids. Continue to do what you do for the youth as well.

As far as Lazario, I think everyone needs to stop feeding into his negative attitude and closed mind. He has an opinion and that is fine, I might suggest though Lazario that these youth do not need to hear the negative comments that you have-allow them to openly believe in what you don't!

Thank you for the support Karen. I will do my absolute best to be there, and even if I cannot, I will get as many others as possible to attend.

LAZ
I think you have every right to oppose, disagree, or try to make what ever point you want about anything.

I think that sometimes you post and people only respond to argue with you. (I enjoy that).

I sometimes get confused on your style of what you write and what your actual point is....

I think that some people are not what or whom they pretend to be, but they are the last people to admit that when called out to do so.

I have learned that when you post things about religion or politics and dont agree with the majority of other posts, you can be percieved as the enemy. (I have).

I wonder if you and I will ever agree on a subject and or post in the future. (stranger things have happened).

I hope that you do enjoy this website and will continue to post your views even though its not what people want to hear (read).

Zsa Zsa :-P

Seeing how this debate has spun out of any hope for rational discussion, I'm going to end my involvement in it by reminding everyone of two things.

Christians: Forgive, like Jesus did and hold your belief true to your heart regardless of criticism. If your faith can't take the heat of questioning on merits then it really isn't that strong. Respond to that questioning with humility and compassion, not anger.

Lazario: These are high school students, be thankful that they aren't just apathetic towards any part of being involved in the community.

I'm personally praying for all of you.

I do not object to posting of views or the idea that all people have different views on one subject-What I do object to is the fact that these youth are taking a stand on something that they believe in! Would it really hurt you to tell them good job or at least applaud their efforts? And seriously, all I was asking of you was to ease up on the negativity that you were displaying! I have said that your opinion is your opinion and that is fine, just allow the youth to have theirs as well!

GOOD NEWS LAZ cant stop them or anyone from exercising their beliefs.

Why do you act like you won some prize with that comment Dee? No one tried to stop him! It was stated that it is fine to have an opinion and to voice it!!

If you read all my previous posts on my support of your rally around the pole you might understand.

I am sorry that I tried to stick up for what I think is right.

I didnt win anything did You ?

I made a statement directed to LAZ then in general.

If I offended you then I am sorry.

Please read all posts from your initial article.

Can anyone please update us on the turnout at the Pole this morning? Hope it was a huge success for the youth and the community....

It is wonderful to hear that the turnout was a positive one....I personally think it is great that the youth took this stand on faith, but what a great outreach for those unchurched youth also...I want you to know that the time designated for the youth to be at the Pole, I was praying that you continue your effort in organizing similar events for the youth Nancy, and for the youth that showed up and reached out, and for the ones that did the reaching...Be blessed always!!!

What is an unchurched youth ?
I am not affiliated with any organized religious sector.
I did not show up but I said a special prayer.
I applaud everyone involved.
I am an Adult unchurched batavian.
whatever that means....

Dee...I am sorry if it sounded like I attacked a comment you made a day or two ago....I live in Virginia and have gone to church in Oakfield,it happens to be the one that Nancy, the organizer of this event goes...You should try to attend a service there....Oakfield United Methodist Church-they are very kind, warm and loving in that church and would embrace you as a new person...why not give it a try?...unchurched, could mean anyone that does not have a church "home" or someone that is unfamilar with the word!....thank you for at least saying a prayer at the time the youth were gathered....

I feel no attack and I thank you very much for the invitation.
I think the whole idea was great.
I was suspicious because you were from virginia and not batavia.
If i was to get involved with a certain church it would be in Batavia since i have travel issues.
I hope that more "churched" people keep in mind that reaching out to all people might mean some critisism at first.
Thank You for responding.
Gabor D Deutsch.
And Yes, GOD BLESS US ALL.