County nursing home isn't up for sale, but the option is part of a proposed study

Someday the folks in charge will remember that the PEOPLE that they always characterize as 'taxpayers' actually expect some return for the taxes they pay.

Some things are bigger than taxes and taking care of senior citizens who may not be able to afford costly private facilities is one of them.

Wake up Mr. Gsell and company, the people of Genesee County won't forget this.

Wow, how many tax paying citizens work for or are cared for at the county home?
Now how many taxpaying citizens use the airport?
A few wealthy citizens could drive a few more miles for a place to keep there toys. Instead of putting that expense on the rest of us.
How about selling the airport and put that budget toward the home.

Bryant makes a good point.

we need our County nursing home. Bryant does makes a good point.
and don't forget we the people can vote you jerks out of office. be cause we know politicians lie.

County government should not be trying to make up for the failings of our national health care system by running what should be a private business.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 5, 2010 - 7:54am
County government should not be trying to make up for the failings of our national health care system by running what should be a private business.

Good point, Charlie.
Now, please give us your take on what should happen to those who can't afford (for whatever reason) to be in a private nursing home?

Having a close relative who lives in the GCNH, I must say that I am undecided on a potential sale. Having visited the three nursing homes in Batavia, I must tell you that without hesitation, the privately owned one is the one which I was unwilling to consider placing my loved one in. The people were pleasant enough, but the work that is needed in order to make the facility even close to being what the residents have at the county home or the VA would probably cost millions. The aides who work 1 on 1 with the residents at the county home are underpaid, understaffed and under appreciated. They still do a fabulous job with what they have to work with. This is probably the case with many aides at other nursing homes as well.

Would private maintain quality care AND see that the building is not let go to disrepair? How could a study provide that information? It would be impossible. It is like me trying to decide to sell my home and hope that the future owners would be able to maintain it to my own standards. That is where the concern lies.

I'm not sure anyone really thinks that the county should be in the nursing home business. It is the unknown that people are most worried about. As the baby boomers continue to age, more and more will be seeking quality skilled nursing facilities down the road. If living in Batavia and your only choice is a smelly and run-down private nursing home, or our county home, which do you think you would choose? The VA home (very nice) has strict requirements and most people who are younger are not a vet or married to a vet who saw wartime action.

It would help if those who comment would consider visiting the nursing homes in the county -- beyond a drive by -- and with a bit of empathy, consider the fact that if you lived in a nursing home (a place no one sets as a final goal) and your final years held little security - maybe, just maybe - you'd be very concerned about what is left of your final days.

_______________________________

Here is a page where the four local nursing homes are rated - and mind you - quality of care can be considered good even if the place is a dump - but a safe dump. http://nursinghomes.nyhealth.gov/browse_search.php?range=15&rt=14020&fo…

If you notice, under the complaints tab, here is the line up:

<b>Batavia Nursing Home, LLC:</b> Complaints received per 100 occupied beds: 79.4 - state average: 24.4

<b>Genesee County Nursing Home:</b> Complaints received per 100 occupied beds: 11.6

<b>LeRoy Village Green Residential HC Facility, Inc:</b> Complaints received per 100 occupied beds: 14.7

<b>Western NY Veterans State Home:</b> Complaints received per 100 occupied beds: 46.3

This isn't a black, white or gray issue. It is an issue focused green - the almighty tax dollar. When decisions are made on the nursing home, we must be responsible to all parties. If it goes private and there are limited medicaid beds available, our local, infirm, and life-long taxpayers will be shipped out of the area like unwanted cargo.

You can't afford private nursing homes, then you do the best you can with what family you have to take care of you. There is no reason that I should be footing the bill so Great Grandma can be waited on hand and foot.

On a national leval we are letting the govermemt take over the failing health care system. How is that private?
We are going to be paying for the care of you ageing baby boomers real soon one way or anouther. How would you like to be cared for county, state, or national leavel. Where do you think you will recive the best care. Take a walk through the VA home and the county home where would you like to spend the rest of your life?
How many county run airports are in New York?
If our airport is public transportation, what public are being transported? Where do I book a flight to NYC through our airport?

Bea, what do other people who live in counties without government run nursing homes do?

I understand there is a major problem with our health care system in this country. For that reason, I like the idea of a Canadian or British system here. That is the fight you should be making. This Band-Aid approach of our local county government running a nursing home is not the answer.

Phil,

I empathize with your situation and appreciate your clarity. Just one question: The grandparents saved up enough money to be cared for and you would be willing to take them in. What if you could not physically take care of their needs any longer? What if they were non-ambulatory, incontinent and unresponsive? Nursing homes are skilled nursing facilities. Even if your home had a ramp, was wheelchair accessible, etc. - would you stock up on a hoyer lift, wheelchair accessible shower, equipment for breathing treatments, suction equipment in case of aspiration while eating, geriatric chair when they are no longer able to be in a wheelchair and 24 hour full-time care required? Nurses and aides are pretty expensive to have in your home.

BTW, I'm with you on your last paragraph.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
--Thomas Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
--Thomas Jefferson

Phil, I'm not sure how you managed to make this about the school lunch program, unions and welfare; I'll remind you that this is a singular issue and completely unrelated to any of those things.

The Home is a skilled nursing facility and while I don't doubt for a minute that you would happily take in you elderly family members, I will remind the people here that most individuals are not equipped with the skills or the money necessary to care for many of the illnesses that effect the elderly. The home exists for these people, they offer a skilled nursing staff and excellent facilities to all County residents in need for just a few dollars a month on your tax bill.

What sort of return can we expect for the money we pay in taxes? How many services will be eliminated without lowering the tax levy do we have to suffer before we realize that having a fire sale on County responsibilities is pointless and counterproductive?

I will not let the teabagger society redirect and obfuscate here.

Phil, you always express my views much more eloquently than I can

And Chris, teabagger is just a new term for Conservative. We never went away, the politicians left us. We are the majority in this country (at least as far as self descriptions go)

Phil, that two hour commute is not new. I commuted for years. For the record, I also stayed with my Mom 24/7 for a few years before she passed. Not everyone has that option.
Not every situation is the same. Some had savings; others pensions; others investments that were lost. What is the option for those who don't have family to care for them.
I'm looking for the distractors to come up with concrete solutions for those who won't be able to afford private care when the time comes. For those without family.
As far as great grandma being waited on hand and foot. Is that the popular complaint among you who don't believe that the elderly deserves affordable care?

Bea, come up with a solution that doesn't involve my money for your problem.

Thats my issue. Its my money not yours and should not be use so you can live longer and take more.

Howard, Mr Gsell is incorrect if he told you there are only two such County owned facilities in NYS. Just in our region alone we have the Erie County Home, Wyoming County Home, Genesee County Home, Livingston County Nursing Home, Orleans County Nursing Home and TWO Cattaraugus County Nursing Homes. It is a documented fact that public health facilities run more sufficiently than their private counter parts and the employees receive similar benefits. The airport is not equivalent to those in Buffalo, Rochester and Niagara Falls, It is barely the size of Prior Aviation and that is a privately owned airport. How many county residents actually fly out of the airport as opposed to travelling to Buffalo or Rochester? I would have to say not too many.

Phil, you were the only one here to mention School lunch, unions and welfare.

I don't care about your 'toys,' I don't want to take them from you or anyone else. I'll say it again, some things are bigger than taxes. A government's function is to protect its citizens and provide for them the necessary things that they cannot provide for themselves; this is one of those things.

For those of you who declare the conservatives out-number the liberals... why then do we have Obama in office and a majority in the House? I am sick and tired of politics taking precedent over the residents in the GCNH. We have over 200 residents that will be kicked out by a private sector owner. Yes, kicked out because the owner only accepts so many "poor" residents. Do you know what statistics say happens to those residents who are transferred? Many of them will die within a year of leaving the facility. Need proof? Look up the article "Relocation of the Elderly" by Nicholas G. Castle
Hey! But who cares? The Home will go private! (Did I mention you will still be paying taxes anyway? Just to the private owner!)

Phil, you're not taxed any more than I am. People's lives are more important than a few bucks a month.

The current and future residents of the Home have payed taxes their whole lives to support the place, are their tax dollars worth less than yours? Should they expect less from what they put in because you don't feel like paying just like they did?

Phil...good luck. If opinions like yours actually materialize into reality, then the moral compass of conservatism has been totally destroyed. I am not a liberal as you like to pin on me. I was a registered Republican until this past election cycle. Once they ran McCain I jumped ship. I am a moderate Democrat and yes, the union rep for the County. I also worked as a CNA for many, many years and I am a strong advocate for geriatric rights in nursing homes! Perhaps you need to read the Book of Solomon in the bible. One baby two mothers and your ready to slice it in half. No questions asked. Good luck and good fortune to you and yours!

Ok, when have I supported corporate welfare?

While I support killing those who would kill us and doing so away from our civilians, I don't support general policing of the globe.

Nurses and Doctors are going to feel the pinch soon anyways because of the death of the baby boomers, nothing can be done about that.

Tony, nice job grouping people together and then saying things that aren' true about them on the whole. When that grouping involves race, we call that racism. You are doing the same thing on a political basis. Good job!

My lost tax ocntribution wouldn't be felt nearly as bad if the governments that I support (monetarily) were not so huge to begin with.

Phil, let's be honest with ourselves, you don't want anyone to make your choice for you but you're willing to make choices for senior citizens. It works both ways and I really think we need to remember that.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on January 5, 2010 - 12:31pm

Tony, nice job grouping people together and then saying things that aren' true about them on the whole. When that grouping involves race, we call that racism. You are doing the same thing on a political basis. Good job!

--

Are you saying you aren't registered to vote? Because the rules of doing so determine that one must join a group at that time - none of which I have created or defined, the rules of registering to vote I had no hand in creating.

If you aren't registered to vote, then why are you even commenting?

If you are, then what am I guilty of, that you haven't self-defined yourself as?

"teabagger is just a new term for Conservative. <b>We</b> never went away, the politicians left <b>us</b>. <b>We</b> are the majority in this country"

Sure you are. You're part of the group that selected Independent. And if there was ever any organization at that level, the power that you wield would be immense. Like atheists and other non-believers, the largest minority in the country without political power (at least that hasn't organized it into power).

It is too bad that Tony's post was removed. He made a valid point. I didn't work the entire time I took care of my mother. Not every family has someone who can or will take that much time away from work.
If it ever reached the point where she required specialized care or special equipment, I certainly didn't have the medical qualifications or the means to supply it.

This is off topic Tony,

Back to the nursing home. The only public use of money for healthcare I support is the VA. And it needs to be overhauled. Other than that, they made their choices, I shouldn't have to cover the slack.

Yes Peter, they made the choice to pay taxes for 65+ years with the expectation that the County Nursing home would be there for them should they need it. Once again, these arguments work both ways, you don't want others choosing for you, but you're willing to make choices for them; the logical disconnect is extraordinary.

Chris, we usually agree but, I have trouble understanding your position on this. Since Phil is probably driving to work right now, let me ask a few questions. First I think what he would say is that you are the one trying to make the choice by attempting to block the study.

How do you know a privately run nursing home would not be better? What evidence do you have that a private company running the nursing home would not be better for elderly people?

Sorry - my wireless dropped as I clicked save, so... what I had said in not as many words, is we're just debating the symantecs of the word. Independent, unaffliated... either way, you've given up your ability to vote in primaries. However, I think that both major national parties need people like you - because there are a lot - of the mentality that they don't agree with the party wholesale. It's those people that keep extremists in check and bring parties back towards the middle. As you ask though, back to the topic...

Regarding the sale of the nursing home. If it is sold, it may be sold to an entity out of state. Do you honestly believe that the care and comfort of those in Genesee Co. will be their first and foremost interest?

Do you honestly believe that you will see your taxes go down because the nursing home is sold?

This is a "but for the grace of God, go I" situation. No one knows what the future holds. While some may feel they sit on a higher level than the rest of us, and that they may never be in a situation where they might need the services of the county home, the sad truth is it may happen.

Your savings can be wiped out by illness. What happens then? Your insurance company can rescind your policy, then what? You may be in need of medical care or equipment that no one in your family can provide, then what?

This shouldn't be a political issue. It is a humanitarian issue. It isn't discussed just for those who are currently facing the possibility of the safety net the nursing home provides, but for those of you of the next generation who may someday require the specialized care available.

The belief that it can't happen to you or that you have provided enough for yourself doesn't take into account that life has a way of throwing curves. Are you willing to take the risk that one won't be tossed at you?

Charlie, I was just pointing out to Peter and Phil that they are attempting to make choices for others while saying that they won't let others choose for them. I'm fine with making these choices because doing so will provide a necessary service to people who are unable to provide it for themselves.

I'm not attempting to block the study either, I'm attempting to get the legislature to take sale off the table. If teh goal is to save the County some money then the focus of the study should be on how to create greater efficiency within the current structure while keeping the home public and available to those who cannot afford private care. If no money can be saved without it being detrimental to the quality of care then the county should look elsewhere to save a buck or two. Sale of the nursing home should not be an option.

However, I've heard from the horses mouth that sale is the goal. As a matter of fact, I've even discussed with a member of the legislature how much the Certificate of Need would be worth. I've been downwind of this manure pile for too long now and the smell is starting to get to me.

As far as what I know about the public home being better than a private home I would urge you to look at the ratings. I would also urge you to remember what this is all about: Quality care for those who cannot afford, for whatever reason, the costs of a private nursing facility.

“Thats my issue. Its my money not yours and should not be use so you can live longer and take more.”

Wow, that’s rude even for a troll.

You must have the antidote for aging. You’ll be there sooner than you think.

Yes.

I suppose there should be a reality check here though.

As long as the county owns the home the CSEA will be there. If the home is public then the workers will be public employees, if they choose to unionize (which is their right) then their union will be CSEA. So I suppose the question is moot.

Phil's position on this is surprising to me since he was quite an advocate for GCASA on another site. So Phil - you'll help drug addicts (many from other counties) but to hell with the elderly from our own county?

Posted by Beth Kinsley on January 5, 2010 - 3:26pm
Phil's position on this is surprising to me since he was quite an advocate for GCASA and for Medicaid money being used for drug addicts and alcoholics on another site. So Phil - you'll help drug addicts (many from other counties) but to hell with the elderly from our own county?

When Medicaid money helps support one's lifestyle, it is easy to advocate for it's use.

My question- what did the elderly folks do 100 years ago? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I really would like to know. Did Genesee County have a facility back then? How was it funded? Were people generally grouped into the "poorhouse"? If so, whatever happened to that concept?

Actually Bud, the progenitor of the county nursing home WAS the county poorhouse out in Bethany. I can get some historical links if you want them. I'm sure Lorie has them at her fingertips.

From Genesee County historian, Sue Conklin. http://co.genesee.ny.us/dpt/historian/countyhome.html

“Notice is hereby given that the Genesee County Poorhouse will be ready for the reception of paupers on the first day of January 1827 … The Overseers of the Poor of the several towns of the County of Genesee are requested, in all cases of removal of paupers to the county poorhouse, to send with them their clothing, beds, bedding and such other articles belonging to the paupers as may be necessary and useful to them.”

"The following were eligible for assistance: habitual drunkards, lunatics (one who by disease, grief or accident lost the use of reason or from old age, sickness or weakness was so weak of mind as to be incapable of governing or managing their affairs), paupers (a person with no means of income), state paupers (one who is blind, lame, old or disabled with no income source) or a vagrant."

What was that Board of Supervisors thinking providing for drunkards, the insane, paupers and the elderly? Were the county residents in 1827 given any choice? Maybe they didn't want their tax money used to provide for the retches of society.

Phil, I don't think Beth meant what you think she meant..I'll leave it to her to clarify.

Another point of clarity here, Beth wasn't saying that you agree wholeheartedly with Medicare/Medicaid, she was saying that you agree with the county funding GCASA.

You are correct on both points Chris. I was just surprised that Phil was such an advocate for GCASA but so unwilling to help the elderly. It is no secret that GCASA gets a great deal of their money through Medicaid reimbursement.

Hah! Chill out Phil. Got your panties in a bunch or what? Friends calling you at work saying people were claiming you support drug addicts? That is rather silly don't you think? I never said you supported drug addicts. I said you were advocating for GCASA. I did change my original post to take out the part about Medicaid but, I will state again, it is no secret that GCASA gets a great deal of their money from Medicaid. I personally think that GCASA does a great deal of good - but so does the Genesee County Nursing Home. We all have a right to pick and choose which members of society we think deserve our support. I just found it odd that you expressed your support for GCASA but are not in favor of helping the elderly. Just wondering if your mother had lived and was a resident of the nursing home if you would feel the same way?

Phil- RELAX! No one is calling you anything. Beth was simply pointing out the irony of supporting one medicaid leech(GCASA) and bashing the other leech(nursing home). I'm sure it was just misundrstood

Lorie- thank you for the link. I am always interested in history, and where we came from. You wondered about any uproar from the citizens about using tax money to fund a poorhouse. The big difference between then and now is income taxes. There were none then, tax money was collected through tarriffs, excise taxes and real property taxes.

New question Phil - if your wife worked for the Genesee County Nursing Home instead of for GCASA, would you still feel the same way?

Beth, nice example of “win at all cost politics”. I guess in your world it is ok if you are losing the debate to kick the man’s wife in the teeth. Class move, you lost…

Charlie, please explain how that was a kick in the teeth? It is a legitimate question. The fact that his wife works there is no surprise. She has posted often, and with great clarity and intelligence, on this site.
Phil supports GCASA, a portion of his family income comes from Medicaid payments to GCASA.
If his wife worked for the nursing home, and part of their income came from Medicaid payments from there, would he be more apt to supprt the nursing home?
Beth isn't losing, she is just asking a question.

As I posted above - I think that GCASA does a great deal of good. Why is it a kick in the teeth to point out that his wife works there?

For me, this has absolutely nothing to do with saving union jobs. I don't work for a union. To me this is about the people who have worked their entire lives and paid their taxes only to have the door of the nursing home, that they paid for, slammed in their faces.

Bea and Beth are you serious? You are involved in a friendly debate and out of the blue you bring up the man's wife on a public forum. Hello, there is the line and you crossed it. Your move is a classic scare tactic. It shows other people how far you are willing to go for politcal gain. Scare off the other side and claim victory. Not today!

A little dramatic Charlie?

Posted by Phil Ricci on January 5, 2010 - 9:31pm
but please all of you, stop trying to sell everyone on this humanitarian argument.

What is wrong with the humanitarian argument?
Whether you support medicaid or not is of no interest to me.
What I am concerned about is the lack of humanity and the ability to place blinders on when it comes to the care of the current residents of the home, those who may need it in the near future, and those, of the next generation, who may face the need to enter the home - regardless of their financial situation.
As I stated before, life has a way to throw curves with little care if it is someone well to do, or someone who is less fortunate.
I'm all for fiscal responsibility. What disturbs me is that those who claim to be fiscal conservative seem to feel that it goes hand in hand with being heartless.
That lack of humanity can come back to bite. I hope it never does.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 5, 2010 - 9:46pm
Bea and Beth are you serious? You are involved in a friendly debate and out of the blue you bring up the man's wife on a public forum.
At least we are keeping it a friendly debate, and not attacking Phil's wife. But, you know how that is done, don't you?
http://thebatavian.com/blogs/philipanselmo/bialkowski-says-he-does-not-…

What do you think it will be like for her at work tomorrow after this?

Charlie,
It may be water cooler discussion, but no where on this thread was Phil's wife attacked.
Please, if I'm wrong, document where someone attacked her.

Yeah Charlie - I'm sure it's going to be very difficult for his wife at work tomorrow when everyone is discussing how her husband supports the agency that they all work for.

Phil, I have no problem with a study. But, it appears that the sale is already on the table. Take that off the table, do the study, bring the information to the public.
Don't massage it with little blurbs like, "there will be no change in the operation of the nursing home during the transition". That makes me cringe. All that means is that the residents have a home until the ink is on the contract - transition complete.
The residents of the home have a valid concern. They deserve to be heard (even if they are no longer tax payers).
The belief that everyone in the nursing home could be cared for by family members is beyond comprehension. Perhaps you have the financial ability and medical knowledge to do that, but most people don't.

Are you ashamed that your wife works for GCASA? Was it supposed to be a secret? Sorry but I didn't get the memo. You talk about your family all the time. You opened that door.

Your wife's job is no secret. Here's an excerpt from a recent post of hers right here on this site:

I am incharge of the DWI Victim Impact Panel that has, on average 30 people from the area who have been charged with DWI or DWAI. To hear month after month stories from people who have been affected by drinking and driving (some have lost children or they themselves have been injured)is heart wrenching to me. It's such an easy decision to not drive under the influence. The number of people it could ultimate affect is immeasurable. I certainly am not saying people can't drink. Just don't get behind the wheel of a vehicle.

1. Fight for Union jobs
2. Look for ways to spend taxpayer money
3. Crush anyone who disagrees
4. Go to step 1

Bea, time for a new script.

Agreed Howard. I made my point of view clear. I am not in favor of the Legislature even considering the sale of the nursing home. It is not fair to the people who have worked and paid taxes their whole lives who may need it some day. Many people who thought they had enough to retire on have lost so much in the current economic crisis. They deserve, in the very least, to have the nursing home as a safety net. None of us knows what the future may hold for us. Any one of us on here may need it some day.

Firstly, I do not object to a study, I do object to the pontential sale of a high quality home for people who otherwise would not be able to afford any care elsewhere, that is the purpose of the opposition in the Facebook group. Enough with the dismissive attitude that because the argument has a humanitarian component that is not a valid argument, it is, period. Go tell the folks who may be able to enter into the home because a private company may take less Medicare recipients that they don't matter. They do.

I am also concerned with this charge that fighting for Union jobs is a bad thing. Up until recently, and I am talking to you Charlie, you were the President of the Batavia City Council, you know how hard union workers work to plow the streets, maintain the parks, fight fires and police our city, you always commented that you admired their dedication and valor, why not have the same attitude towards the employees at the County Home? These people have a high level of training, have a difficult job, and should be paid wages that is comparable to the hard work they put in day in and day out.

I am not ashamed of defending union workers, there is a way to balance the concerns of high taxes without vilifying good and hard working people who serve the public.

Just food for thought.

Enough with the drama.

Dan, I have not made up my mind about this issue. I only objected to the thug tactics I have seen in this thread. The matter needs study, period.

And yes, our city workforce earns their pay and we should all be thankful for the work they do.

Howard, workers have the right to organize. I think that there are other areas of the county budget, such giving millions of dollars of tax breaks to projects that may not see any real economic benefit.

I think that giving workers protection and legitimate wages and a democratic process is something that should never be done away with.

I think that argument is somewhat dramatic, municipalities can always negotiate with unions. Currently, CSEA workers are working without a contract in Genesee County..

A study on how GCH could save a few bucks would make a good first step.
They went off the grid a few years ago creating there own power useing diesal fuel just before the price of fuel went though the roof. For weeks and months at a time that system craps out and they rent a large generator to power the place. I would think some major cost saveing could be made there. Do they realy need a new maintance truck every 2 to 3 years. Do they realy need to have contract security 24 hours a day? I am sure they could tighten there belt some.

Good points, Bryant. Looking for efficiencies should be the first step along with filling the empty beds.

Howard, of course I can back up what you are saying. Union people have the right to organize, they also have the ability to price themselves out of a job. These terrible collective bargaining rules in NY are forcing municipalities to cut back.

This isn't about union jobs. The jobs at the nursing home are skilled and in demand, those jobs will be there no matter what happens.

I haven't had a single discussion with the CSEA on this matter.

Then why all the opposition to a mere study?

And the answer is....because they are afraid what they will find. Medicaid fraud opened at one entity leads to investigating another, then another, then they figure out where the BILLIONS of dollars of waste are. Government doesn't want you to know how much of your money is wasted on bloated middle management, waste, price manipulation, etc. Why, you ask? Because this enables the theory that government is there to take care of you, don't worry about anything for yourself, big brother is your everything.
Now, as far as a study at this point, we might as well just cool our heels and wait to see what healthcare "reform" brings about. By the time a study is done and paid for, the whole playing field could change and the sale could be moot point.

The opposition is to sale being on the table. If county management believes that there is waste or innefficiency at the home then that is what they should be addressing.

I'm particularly sick of hearing about waste and abuse that has 'been going on for years.' If that is the case then why weren't these things handled years ago? You can't do nothing for years and then use the problems you ignored as a crowbar to force through your agenda.

I'll reiterate the fact that a legislator said to me very plainly that the sale of the nursing home is 'a done deal.' They're not actually looking to improve the efficiency of the operation, they're dead set on having a fire-sale on county services. The nursing home is essential to the quality of life of senior citizens in Genesee County and we will NOT let it go quietly or without a fight.

So try and make it about unions or taxes, but I promise you that my only responsibility is to the people who need the home now and the ones who will need it in the future and I will do my best (and worst) to ensure that they have a voice.

Government by its nature is slow to react and therefore it is inefficient and wasteful. That has nothing to do with the employees that do the job. The problem is that politics plays apart in management. Government is incompatible with good business practices. Take a look at this example; people feel the need to interject to even stop a study into how the operation could be run better. Private businesses does this type of reevaluation constantly.

There is a rule of thumb, anything run by the free market will be better for customers and even the employees in the long run. I’ll wait for the study but, you don’t need a crystal ball to see through this problem. Its government intervention in the free market.

Deleted.

Given Mr. Gsell's negotiation history and previous comments about unions, I'm not surprised that he'd immediately look in that direction for a scapegoat. He's blamed CSEA for just about everything he could pin on tehm for the last few years. This is no different.

Find efficiencies within the system. Reconnecting to the power grid should save the home a ton of money, but one wonders if that was just a measure taken to make the home more enticing to private buyers.

Deleted in kind.

Chris, I would never call you names. I deleted the comment; it was not my intention for you to take offence. I like you very much and usually agree with you. I simply do not agree with you on this one and am looking for nothing more than a respectful debate.

Your free market ideology works a lot of the time Charlie, but try and explain free market economics to a senior citizen who has nothing left and no means to pay for a private bed. Explain it to them when the private facility refuses to take Medicare and kicks them out on their ass. Explain to them that the free market says that they're useless, expendable, and unimportant in the grand scope private enterprise.

I love capitalism, but with no checks or fallbacks for the people the market forgot we're no better than the Spartans leaving disfigured children to die on the mountain.

Likewise Charlie, let's hug it out.

Chris, there is no doubt we have a health care crisis in this country. That problem needs to be solved on a national level and not with my local property taxes.

Property taxes are a scourge on our society and are unfair in a lot of cases. It is my belief the tax should only be used for local needs such as road maintenance and public safety.

That's fair Charlie. I was having this exact discussion with my father this morning. My contention is that the nursing home ranks right up there as an essential service, the sort that a lot of people cannot provide for themselves. I don't think government should be involved with every aspect of our lives, but government does have a duty to it's citizens.

So try and make it about unions or taxes, but I promise you that my only responsibility is to the people who need the home now and the ones who will need it in the future and I will do my best (and worst) to ensure that they have a voice...Chris who made it your responsibility...Is this so you can have some kind of platform to run for a political office..

I was asked to do this Mark. I'm not running again. Anything else you'd like to talk about while avoiding the issue?

Where did the assumption, from Howard and others, that those who want to keep the County Home open oppose a study?
To my knowledge, no one opposes a study. We oppose the "done deal" regarding the sale WITHOUT a study.

duplicate post

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 5, 2010 - 10:44pm
Dan, I have not made up my mind about this issue

cmallow wrote on Jan 3, 2010 12:16 PM:
" I pay enough already in taxes. County government should not be running what should be a private business. Government is not capable of adjusting quick enough to run an efficient business. It is futile for them to even try. "

Sure sounds like your mind was made up a few days ago. What changed your mind from absolute to considering the issue?

Howard, waiting until the sale is final to complain about it is certainly counterproductive. If we hadn't picked this fight now, no one would even know that the RFP had gone out. Which brings me to another point, if this is such a great idea then why wasn't the county singing its praises last October instead of waiting until 7 days after election day to release the RFP?

I was just making the point that too often we wait for things to be done to us instead aggressively fighting for what we believe.

Me-following the Batavian in a silent mode.I support whatever works best for the community,was wondering.how much will these consultants charge for their findings?
And once again-Don't rock the boat when the ship Is sinking

I would just like to offer my heart-felt thanks to The Genesee County Nursing Home, for their quality of care my father is recieving. Thank You Al Nolan, and all the wonderful staff in the 1st floor Demencia Unit. What a tight ship they run, and are compasionate wonderful people.
My father, after having to literally hand over every bit of his savings, stocks, 401K, Investments(forced to take highly taxed maximum draws), Beautiful Landmark Home(that he remodeled by himself, and is very proud of), and life he worked so hard to build, was actually smiling today, for the first time in a while, instead of crying his eyes out.
He had "too much" money to qualify for medicaid, but was forced into applying anyway?? He had enough money to pay the "300 dollars a day" to be cared for, but couldnt be taken in, until the "Medicaid Form" was proven to be in the works. Therefore he had to spend 3 weeks at the Buffalo VA(whom I would also like to thank).

4 weeks ago GCNH called to tell us they had a bed for him. We were all so thankful, that we could have him close to us(where local elderly should be, not thrown into some out of area facility!). I cant imagine having him miles away from us.

I have never seen such a screwed up healthcare system in all my life. Its quite a racket they have going. I dont see the need for unions either, and think they are also a money grab. What, the average working Joe isnt just as deserving, of the fruits of their labor, because their not in a union??
You all better be ready, to hand over EVERTHING you have worked for, all your life, to the county and state, cause it comin.. Make sure you have all your paperwork too from 20-30-40 years ago, bank statements and withdrawl slips, visits to the bathroom, ect. The state of NY demands it, and will own you, and all your money eventually. Dont try to protect your home from the State of Ny's money-grubbing hands, by signing it over to your children, because they will make you, put it back in your name, so they can take it too. The ink is still fresh...
So keep working hard people,get ready to be begging for care, when you get old, and having your family dragged through the coals.
All this bickering above is so trivial, and not at all whats important. This is the reality...
Bitter Grapes?, Most certainly Peter...

The only public use of money for healthcare I support is the VA. Posted by Peter O'Brien on January 5, 2010 - 12:56pm

If I recall correctly, Peter, you mentioned death panels in an argument pertaining to public funded health insurance reform. Wouldn't denying nursing care to those who cannot afford it amount to de facto death sentences for the poor?

Bea that is the beauty of debate, it forces you to consider things you might not have.

The real question is how you made up your mind without any debate at all and become organized to boot? The strange thing is how people feel justified to tug on the heart strings for one needy group but, seemingly without care for those among us who might have drug and alcohol problems. To some of us, it seems there is an agenda here based more around saving union jobs then helping those who are less fortunate.

Your real agenda became apparent the minute you attacked a personal friend of mine for the good work her organization tries to do in our community. What I have come to understand is that if someone’s heart bleeds for one group, it usually bleeds for all.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 6, 2010 - 1:50pm
Bea that is the beauty of debate, it forces you to consider things you might not have.

The real question is how you made up your mind without any debate at all and become organized to boot? The strange thing is how people feel justified to tug on the heart strings for one needy group but, seemingly without care for those among us who might have drug and alcohol problems. To some of us, it seems there is an agenda here based more around saving union jobs then helping those who are less fortunate.

Your real agenda became apparent the minute you attacked a personal friend of mine for the good work her organization tries to do in our community. What I have come to understand is that if someone’s heart bleeds for one group, it usually bleeds for all.

Charlie,
I'll ask you again to find one place where I attacked her. As a matter of fact I stated she posts with clarity and intelligence. Since when is that an attack?

I believe that those afflicted with drug or alcohol problems should be entitled to help. I also believe that those who have worked all their lives and paid taxes in Genesee county should not be abandoned and left to fend for themselves when and if their health situation requires them to reside in a nursing home. I can't pick and choose the situations where I can stop looking at those who need a voice (be they in drug and alcohol rehab; or the elderly; or the needy).

Yes, there should be fiscal responsibility. Those in charge of the nursing home, and the lack of oversight by the county legislature brought us to this place in time.

Am I advocating for CSEA? No. Do I believe that the workers have a right to organize? Yes. Do I believe that compromise is needed from all involved? Yes.

The bottom line, is that I believe that the County Home is the safety net for our elderly. It has been for almost 200 years. That is a rich heritage we have in Genesee County, people taking care of people. When did that concept become passe'?

Wow! CSEA is getting the blame for everything! I don't know what I am going to do with all this power. AS Chief spokesperson for CSEA I must be the person who gave all the CSEA employees their "sweet deals" The only real problem here (Charlie et al) is they only have the same benefits (with the exception of the pension system)of their private sector counterparts. Have you seen what the private sector nursing homes pay? Did you know they also grant vacation time, sick time and holiday time? Did you know the starting wages were so low at the County Home the County themselves demanded they be increased? Did you know our membership contributes to their health insurance too? We cannot help keep the GCNH open if we don't know what the Hell you want!

I bet you didn't know how closely CSEA works with the Nursing Home to resolve problems. No, you wouldn't know that because we are the EVIL! Unions do not only look for money. We look to establish joint resolutions to problems. Educators at no cost (that also helps Administration) and yes, resolve grievances.

If Jay Gsell has a problem with our benefits he can bring them to the negotiating table. It is time to do that, But do you know what? We could take no raises for 3 years and he would come up with another excuse to blame us. The General Unit has been attacked by the County over and over yet all the other unions receive their raises. This year we will not see another raise coming our way but you know what? We're ok with that! At least we prevented the County from cutting the wages of all new employees by 10%. When the Legislators and County Manager start treating every group equally, then we'll talk. Until then we shall continue to rebel.

Posted by Bryant Tyson on January 5, 2010 - 9:20am
We are going to be paying for the care of you ageing baby boomers real soon...

This has already happened. It's going to continue getting worse as more and more baby boomers retire.

It appears to me that the opposition isn't against the study, but rather against the sale. It appears that the county is considering only the sale and not any other options. If that is not accurate then the county legislature should come out and say it. Perception IS reality until proven otherwise.

These arguments about taking in family are all well and good, but the reality is that is very costly in and of itself, both emotionally and financially. Not everyone can do that. In addition, what happens if something happens to you after you've taken in your family? We can do our best to plan for everything with the limited resources most of us have, but things happen that can't be planned for...then what do you do?

Finally, this argument ISN'T about subsidized school lunches, but since it was brought up, I'd like to leave you with one parting thought...school lunches are such a minimal part of what our extensive taxes go to, it's nearly negligible, yet what they provide is invaluable...for many families who cannot afford to pay the full fee it provides their children with one square meal every day...one square meal (or two if they get breakfast) that their little bodies and brains need in order to develop so that they can become productive members of society. In addition, it is not only eaiser to learn, but it is also easier to behave and get along with others when you are not hungry. Remember it is not their fault that they don't have the money to take care of themselves.

Ooops, Freudian slip, I meant to say discussion at the end, but...

Well, if the county still had the RFP up on their website I could easily clarify this for everyone, but who needs transparent government anyway?

The RFP specifically mentions sale among other options. Assistant County Manager Frank Ciaccia said of sale: 'We expect it to go in that direction.'

Make no mistake, sale is the goal and always has been; no amount of circular commenting or redirection is going to change that fact.

Hey Lynn Knoop- I hope you do a better job saving nursing home jobs than you did mine. I wouldn't put you in my corner again!

Howard, their agenda is sale. It has been admitted by two county officials now, one elected one not all before the RFP has been publicly discussed. If you think they won't direct whatever consulting firm they hire to grease the tracks that lead toward selling to a private company you're simply being naive.

The county isn't doing the 'due diligence,' they're pushing an agenda.

Lynn, it sounds like your membership would be far better off being managed by a private company. After reading what you wrote, I can only imagine how low the morale is for the workers at the nursing home.

As for your “exception” of the pension system, that’s a pretty big one isn’t it? That is the benefit that is draining municipalities all over this state dry.

Off topic a bit, it still amazes me what public employees are willing to say about their boss in a public forum. Most of us wouldn’t even bother going to work the next day after a rant like that about our employer. After having done the same, I’m sure my stuff would be in a box waiting for me at work.

It sure sounds like Jay Gsell is doing a fine job looking out for our county taxpayers. Keep up the good work Jay, most of us appreciate it!

Just out of curiosity, is Gsell part of a pension program funded by the state? If so, does he get a pass when it ocmes to draining the state?

Thank you, Howard, for the clarification. The thing is that even though the RFP says that the discussion that we see from County officials is about sale. Again, perception is reality.

Doesn't seem like anyone wants to answer Bea's last question...

Howard I know you're not going to love that I linked this, but it's pertinent information. Doesn't seem like just an option anymore:

http://thedailynewsonline.com/articles/2010/01/07/news/6350908.txt

Bea’s question wasn’t relevant, that’s why it wasn’t answered. The county needs a manager; it doesn’t need to run a nursing home.

Chris, I also read it, your right there isn’t any option. The county wastes between $566,000 and $821,000 a year trying to run a nursing home.

Chris, I also read it, your right there isn’t any option. The county wastes between $566,000 and $821,000 a year trying to run a nursing home.

Some would say it's not wasted, Charlie

"Gsell said the sale of a publicly operated nursing home is a lengthy process that would take about two years to complete. A consultant will identify the pros and cons of selling, provide financial projections for the nursing home for the next five years and explain all of the state Department of Health requirements to be followed in the event of a sale"

So, where are the other options that we read the legislators and Gsell are considering? If it isn't a "done deal", then it pretty darn close.

This isn't hiring a consultant to provide options.

What do you think the county will do with the money from the sale of the nursing home? Lower your taxes? Somehow I doubt that.

Bea's question is relevent if Gsell and his crownies cushy pensions, raises, and perks are coming out of our pockets, and the less fortunate will suffer at their hands. I just love how knowone will investigate, but cry broke and blame everyone else for these so called deficits. How about the "study"? What is the pricetag on that?? Im sure its in the thousands, and for what. Just like the bogus ambulance deal. Is it ever going to come out about the 200,000+ profit, that was indeed made last year, by the ambulance service?? It was admitted in front of our firefighters, why not the public??
What it is, is Avoidance Bea, The first human responce. I cant wait for the day when I can catch them all at their game..We are not fools, just have been taken advantage of by the state of ny and the county far too long. There's plenty of money to go around Bea, its just in the wrong hands...

Dupe

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 7, 2010 - 2:30pm
Bea’s question wasn’t relevant, that’s why it wasn’t answered. The county needs a manager; it doesn’t need to run a nursing home.

It also doesn't need to run an airport, but it does.
Providing affordable nursing care for Genesee County residents is as important, if not more, in the grand scheme of improving and maintaining the quality of life for all in our county.

The question of Gsell's pension is relevant. If he is in a state funded pension plan, then what he will receive is far more than the pension someone working at the nursing home.
Yes we need a county manager. We also need caring people, willing to do the work that needs to be done at the county home.

You scoff at special interest groups. That is your right. You know, Charlie, if GCASA needed people to join a special interest group to save them, I'd be there too. It isn't a pick and choose thing.
Politicians should never expect the population to give rubber stamp approval for everything they do. They are elected to govern, but they are also elected to listen. The disconnect is when the poltiicians believe that the only people they need to listen to are the ones who agree with them. They are missing the point if they don't also listen to those who tell them what they don't want to hear.

Dupe

Bea, maybe they could spend the money on street, bridge repairs or sheriff patrols? This argument that says “They will raise taxes anyways” is false. Costs rise every year. Politicians are reluctant to make changes because special interest groups apply pressure. The group that you belong to that is trying to keep the status quo at the nursing home, is a special interest group. Groups like yours are responsible for increases in government spending and waste. I also don’t have a problem with you expressing yourself or pushing your cause. But, understand that “politicians” don’t raise taxes, the people that vocally ask for more services or resist change do.

Its groups like Bea's that plow through all the red tape and crow that they are trying to feed us. My father and all the residents of the nursing home deserve the utmost respect and the best care. OMG you are blaming the elderly?? Wow

What I'm seeing here is that the 'options' line we've been fed all week was at worst a lie and at best an obfuscation.

In typical fashion though, supporters of the county's fire-sale agenda have immediately jumped on board and are spouting the new company line: We should be selling it anyway, who needs options?

I would have a lot more respect for the folks in charge of this if they would just come out and say, 'Your opinion only counts if you pay property taxes. If you're too old, too young or too poor we're going to ignore you until you go away.'

Bea,
The County Manager is a civil service employee, covered by a pension, as all full time county workers are, from the bottom clerk on up.

You're right about the airport, but we are stuck with it now since we took federal money for it. We are not stuck with a Nursing Home. We have an option to keep or sell it.
But,why not wait until the study is done and then fight to get the issue on the ballot?

Karen,
Do you think all county employees should all give up their pensions because they are publicly funded?

John,

We will fight to get this issue on the ballot if it comes to that, but we will not wait until then to get the message out.

John,
I have the RFP in front of me. There were no other considerations or options. This "study" will be skewed toward the recommendation to sell. Point blank, done deal!.

"Stuck"!
What a word. Stuck! As if the people who are in the home are just useless trash to be ignored or put out of sight. Far out of sight, if the home is privatized.

Some people seem to think they will never get old and never need help. Who do The Invincibles think will be taking care of them when they are old?

And ya know, by then it might even cost more to do it.

Bea, I don’t scoff at special interest groups. I just have a clear understanding as to them being the reason for high taxes. I am also not against the government making sure that the elderly have a place to retire too. I would join you and have frequently done so when the discussion turns to the government’s responsibility to make sure that all Americans have adequate health care. I’m far from a right wing radical or a teabagger.

This discussion isn’t about adequate health care, it is about county government running what should be a private business. As I have said repeatedly government is too slow and lumbering to run a business without waste and inefficiencies.

AS for the airport, our county needs one to compete for business. I think the folks down at the GCEDC would back up that statement. Big business factors in things like airports, before they invest in an area. I also believe that our airport breaks even.

Charlie says: I am also not against the government making sure that the elderly have a place to retire too (sic).

Just where do you suggest the government put them?

Beth, we are capitalists are we not? Government doesn’t run businesses in our economic system. The elderly would go into a privately run nursing home. Again, it is not county government's responsibility to provide subsidized health care paid for by property taxes.

What do you mean by your statement then? How would you propose that the government make sure that the elderly have a place to retire to if they cannot afford a private nursing home?

What happens when the private homes turn away people because of their financial situation? How about when a person has a disease that the private facility chooses not to deal with? What do our senior citizens in need of quality care do then? Do we ship them off to a home 50, 100, 200 miles away?

If you have your way there will be no public nursing facilities left to care for these people and it will be because we choose to live with blinders on when it comes to morality and justice for the folks who need it when they need it most.

Don't tell me there's no place for a county run facility in the grand scope of a capitalist society. Leaving these people with no option but to fend for themselves when when they have no means to do so isn't capitalism, it's feudalism.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 7, 2010 - 4:57pm
Big business factors in things like airports, before they invest in an area. I also believe that our airport breaks even.

Major businesses (and even small ones) develop mission statements and Added Values that they strive to meet.
Most include a responsibility to their stockholders, their employees, and their customers.

Many also include mention of civic responsibility. The belief that they are part of the community in which they select to do business. The community amenities may attract them here, but it is also the warp and weave of the fabric of the community that tips the scale on whether or not they want to relocate.

Community leaders who are willing to push their infirmed and elderly out of the only safety net they have is not an attraction to civic minded businesses.

Our county owned home is just as much an attraction as the airport.

Right now the buildings are there as well as the equipment and expertise needed to care for those in residence. There is no promise that another concern (most likely from out of state) will purchase this facility and keep it open to any in Genesee Co. regardless of income. There is no promise that they won't run it into the ground then sell it off.
That has happened in other areas.

The veterans are lucky to have the VA and the NYS Vets home. Those who can afford private care have that option in Genesee Co. What happens to those who were never in the service, or married to someone in the service?
What happens to those who can ill afford private care?

Too bad there is now way to canvas seniors who rent or own their own home, just making ends meet and asking if they would pay more in rent or property taxes to support the Nursing Home, since they are the ones closest to needing it.

Sad fact is that medicaid will not pay full reimbursement to Genesee County for the care given. And you have all read that part of the health care plan being debated (behind closed doors) in Washington has a big cut to medicaid in it. Our own Governor has said this cut will cost us more in higher taxes.

How do you get full reimbursement for care? How much more can the low income and senior citizens pay in Taxes?

Bea, why would they be anymore out of sight and out of mind if the home was privatized?

Sale is the only 'option' that was discussed in that story.

Judging by your comment Howard about taxpayers the only people whose opinions matter around here are property owners. The rest are but serfs in Jay Gsell's Dukedom.

What you’re all not grasping is that there is only so much money our county can raise through a regressive property tax. Like John says seniors who own their own homes will take the brunt of the escalating costs. The county cannot put off road repairs, sheriff’s patrols or close the airport to finance our own public nursing home. The county has done a good job keeping taxes down and they cannot lose focus under the pressure they will undoubtedly face in the coming months. The road signs, phone calls and letters to the editor will start pounding away at them. This is gut check time and I think they have the metal to withstand the onslaught.

Long live Duke Gsell!!

We're not failing to grasp anything Charlie. There are ways to make the home more efficient and cost effective without selling it off to the highest bidder. I promise you that these ideas will be well outlined and specific as to the cost savings.

Funny Charlie, for you it is a game. Who wins and who loses. The 'little' people, in this game don't deserve any respect. it is all for the fun of the game.
Well, those seniors who are still paying taxes still believe that the county home will be there when and if they need it. it isn't a game to them, it isn't for laughs.
Those who are now renting, paid taxes for years to make sure the generation before them had the safety net of the county home. They also believed that it would be there for them.
Big laugh, Charlie. You can raise your glass to Gsell and wish him well. That was your hilarious answer to Beth's question about where the elderly and infirmed should go when they are turned away by private nursing home. Laugh it up, Charlie.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 7, 2010 - 5:13pm
Again, it is not county government's responsibility to provide subsidized health care paid for by property taxes.

Charlie,
Please read over the county mission statement and show me where the county agrees that it isn't their responsibility to provide for those who can't provide services for themselves?
If you and the rest of insiders don't believe in this mission statement (written in 1995), then perhaps it is time to change it.

Genesee County Mission Statement
I. The legitimate objective of government is to do
for a community of people whatever they need to
have done but cannot do at all in separate and
individual capacities.”*
II. To this end, Genesee County Government
promotes the basic health, safety, and welfare for
all citizens within its jurisdiction.
III. Genesee County Government actively
promotes a strong, diverse economic base and
efficient services to create a quality of life which
values our County as a desirable place to work and
live.
IV. Genesee County Government focuses on a
vision of the future which clarifies its role,
represents the citizens, and respects its heritage.
V. Genesee County Government is committed to
an environment of cooperation, integrity and
openness, with a desire to elicit active citizen
participation.
Adopted: 12 April 1995 Resolution Number 114

Bea, don't lecture me from your high horse about reality. I have taken calls from seniors who I voted to price out their homes. Homes they worked for their whole life and raised their families in. I have also spoke to people who I have voted to take away their job.

This is a political game to kill time for you. In the end someone with more to lose will make the tough call you don't have too.

I don't present information for information's sake. For two months now we've been researching how the home does business as best as we can. When we're ready we'll air out the inefficiencies.

Some of it has to do with filling beds, some of it has to do with making transitions from one function of the home to another easier for patients.

We can't be sure what to believe about the recent propaganda that says the home has been running at a deficit 'for years' either. Someone pointed out earlier today that the June 4th edition of The Daily News said that the home "finished 2008 in the black by 2.3 million dollars." The numbers in the paper today say the opposite. Someone is either full of it or can't do simple math. We'll find the truth.

Phil,
The question is who and why was this allowed to continue for so long?
How many empty beds are at the county home right now?
aren't the filled? Would those filled beds cover the deficit?
I'd do a geratric happy dance if the county did form a citizens committee to at least offer suggestions. It isn't going to happen. Why would they listen to the old (and in their perception, feeble) people? We are the generation that you and Charlie and others feel are using up your taxes so that great grandma can be waited on hand and foot. We are the people who's names on a petition don't hold credence because we no longer pay taxes. Forget, of course, that we paid those taxes for years.
Throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't always the best solution. You don't close the doors. You make intelligent decisions that take into consideration the loss of medicaid reimbursements; the cost of resources; etc.
Telling me, Chris and others to put up or shut up isn't the answer. Becoming vocal is the only thing many of us have left to communicate our concern for what we feel is an injustice.
You have already made your views known. You believe that those who can't afford private care should be kept at home. I'm not sure who is suppose to take care of them. This is a mobile society. Family units don't all live within blocks of each other as they did years ago.
Who decides what productive, working member of a family should give up their job to spend 24/7 tending to an elderly relative? Who decides which family member has the medical training to provide the care that an elderly person receives at the home? How will a family afford the equipment needed by many? It may sound good on paper...this is how you can stop spending MY tax dollars.
The reality it, most families could do it for the long term?
So the question goes back to you. Do we just abandon the elderly and have them fend for themselves if they can't afford private care? Do we look at Dickens when he wrote, "better to die and decrease the surplus population"? Is that the answer to preventing great grandma from being waited on hand and foot and squandering the tax dollars spent on the county home?

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 7, 2010 - 6:39pm
I have taken calls from seniors who I voted to price out their homes. Homes they worked for their whole life and raised their families in. I have also spoke to people who I have voted to take away their job.

...and what proud moments you have as your legacy.
Your "long live the Dukedom" statement was reality enough You can laugh about it, but it wasn't funny for those who lost their homes and for those who lost their jobs. Do we go back to The Godfather and claim it was business, not personal.

So, now those seniors who lost their homes, will also lose the safety net of the county home. Long live the dukedom!

Howard, you have never been so completely and unequivocally wrong.

Phil, Bea is doing her part for our community. What seems to be the problem? Hell, we wouldn't have to do this at all if we thought the county government gave a lick for its citizens. Please continue to complain about your tax bill. It's the only horse you have and it's been dead for a while. Maybe you should be championing the abrogation of the Department of Works, they don't bring in much cash do they? They're necessary though, they do a good job and provide a service that we absolutely must have, and so does the nursing home.

Funny too how all the folks here who were saying, 'Wait for the study,' are now convinced that the county can't operate the home. So much for waiting for more information to make a decision.

thank you Howard, Phil and Charlie.
First, it isn't my welfare I'm looking after, but those I see struggling on a daily basis. You know the ones, those great grandmas you don't want waited on hand and foot.
All I have asked from any of you is what will happen to those who need the safety net of the county home after it is gone.
Howard seems to believe that things will remain the same.
Phil wants them all to go home.
Charlie wants to make sure that people who own their homes and pay taxes are no longer burdened with the cost of those residing in the county home.
Should I just ignore the feeling that there is something wrong with this picture.
Phil, you aren't the first person to take care of aging relatives. More people than you would want to count have or are doing the same thing now. If you can do that for the long term, more power to you. If you figured out a way to juggle all those balls in the air, more power to you. At least you are still working.

Charlie, you keep applauding Gsell for his dukedom. Give him that "good old boy" pat on the back.
Unintended consequences? You didn't intend for people to lose their homes or their jobs? You knew full well what the consequences would be.
I do know what I'm asking the legislators to do. I am asking them to think of those "unintended consequenes", what they do now can't be undone.

As far as being the 'loudest' voice on this site. It can easily be remedied. That will be up to Howard. If he feels that I have nothing to offer this site, he can always remove me.

Anyone care to address the fact that the paper had the home running at a 2.3 million dollar profit in 2008 and now the county says it operated at a loss? Nah, why bother right?

Bea, I have one last thing before I pull out of this thread. I don’t really know Jay Gsell personally so; I won’t be giving him a “good old boy” pat on the back. We have met a few times and have maybe shared 10 words during my time in office. Make no mistake, I know the job Jay does, I know the pressures he is under, he doesn’t deserve to be insulted. I know Chris as well and I know that was not his intention so, I made light of his statement. There is no dukedom in this county and you are insulting a good man for no reason at all.

You’re too fast to punch below the belt. This site is a place for civil debate. If you want to be taken seriously show people whom you disagree with, respect.

Charlie, I didn't insult him. I just parroted YOUR words.
You want to be treated with respect then it works both ways.

I don’t want to beat this to death. You said, “Charlie, you keep applauding Gsell for his dukedom. Give him that "good old boy" pat on the back.”

Is your inference somehow a complement? Or should I take your statement literally that you believe he runs the county as if he is royalty and Jay is somehow on the take or a mobster? There is no reason to play the game, words have meaning and inference. You actually insulted me as well. Do you believe I have gained in some way from knowing Jay? From your words, I’m also a member of the “good old boys” club. I’m sorry; I seem to have missed the meetings and it was still difficult coming up with all my tax money this year.

Bea,
I saw the mission statement and no place does it say we have to have a Nursing Home (or an airport). Health clinics, health inspections, etc, seem, to me, what the statement means by "basic health".

And, to a point, the current taxpayers are the most important people in this debate. Others may or may not have paid county taxes for years, but the current tax payers have to pay now. Jobs are gone, foreclosures up, and many want just to be able to pay this years taxes, not higher ones. People on unemployment and food stamps find it hard to justify higher taxes on their houses.

And yes, they know taxes will go up. Gas, paper, electric, water, road salt, blacktop; all go up and we have to pay more and more for it. But, when and if we can save money, and maybe keep a business or a family around here, we should.

The primary goal of the county should be, after public safety, keeping business and people here,in this area. Not force them to leave.

When the County government is the 2nd largest employer in Genesee County, we have a problem.

Howard great point about the government ambulance service we had ,and the private one we got now...I thought the same thing..This the sky is falling crap is all BS..Wait till they do the study see what it says ..No one is going to throw anyone out in the street if it goes private..No one mentioned that we have a private nursing home on State St...I know of someone that was in there and was on medicade...They got great care by non-union staff..So lets not debate who does a better job at taking care of these people....Both union and non union alike give there best to take care of the people they are in charge of..This is all about what we can support as a county..There is only so much tax money to go around..
We have private schools and they teach children just as well as government schools..So maybe government isn't the answer to every thing...Didn't the government run post office just loose a bunch of state pension checks...Maybe if the post office was private it wouldn't of happened..It might even make money..Isn't the hospital private,its not run by the government ,How do they do it..

Howard,
I would only add that there is no guarantee that just because a Home is run by the government, it will be well run or give great care.

While not a problem here, now, there have been plenty of reports about bad homes and hospitals that are government run.

Mark, I could not agree more, you know someone has their hand in your pocket when they break out with the scare tactics. I think it is clear that a private company can outperform any government run debacle.

What reports, John, and how many of them have anything to do with our nursing home?

All of the numbers you're asking for Howard will be available soon. You'll be surprised, I think, at how little the home costs the average taxpayer. Keep in mind as well that it's not just property taxes footing the bill here. Sales tax plays a part as well so a couple bad years can make it look dire and a couple good years can make it look easy.

With just a little more efficiency, the home should be able to be publicly run AND operate at a near break-even point.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 8, 2010 - 9:05am
I think it is clear that a private company can outperform any government run debacle.

Are you saying the NY State Vets' Nursing Home is a debacle and not performing well?

I just wanted to be the 200th comment, in case there's a prize

The county home has a four star rating and performs above the state and national average in almost all measured categories. We're definitely not trying to polish the proverbial turd here.

One of the things that struck me when I looked through the ratings was teh amount of time residents get to spend with staff. We're not talking candy-stripers here either. The time that residents are attended to by RNs is well above average and speaks to the quality of care they're receiving as well as the dedication of the nursing staff.

Sorry dave the prize is for post number 204, I win the rubber chicken.

Bea, I’m sure the staff is outstanding at the nursing home and they provide excellent care to their patients. There isn’t a doubt in my mind that the employees work just as hard and are just as dedicated to their profession as any private care facility. But, from a financial standpoint, if the budget figures from the county and reported by the Daily News are correct, that business loses between $566,000 and $821,000 a year.

Hospitals, ambulance services and even baseball teams don’t lose money and survive in our system. The only things that do are government debacles subsidized by my tax dollars. Before you say it’s a government service and it doesn’t have to make money, I don’t buy that. It’s a business that is being run by a government entity, which is the reason for its failure to perform. I have no problem using my tax dollars to help the poor; I do have a problem with my tax dollars being used to subsidize an inefficient business.

Charlie, I think we'll have to philosophically disagree on your money making point. They certainly could and should be doing better; they have made money for the county in the past and they can do it again.

Posted by Howard Owens on January 8, 2010 - 9:48am
I'll say the home in Batavia seems fine from what I've seen and heard, but the one in Los Angeles is a debacle.

The government doesn't always get it right.

Which proves you can't paint them all with the same brush. The NYS Vets' Home is an exceptional model for a govenment run facility.
Is the one in California a state run facility or federal?

Chris,
Long shot, but do you know of any Government run homes that make money, or break even?

The only other one I am familiar with is the Erie County Home, and it has been running in the red for decades. But they also have a very old complex that will be closed and a new one, attached to ECMC,will be built, with limited government subsidized payments.

Our county home has made money in the past.

I can remember visiting great uncles in both the Erie Co. Home in Wende and at a private home in Niagara Co.
in the late 40s and throughout the 50s. They were depressing places. Nursing homes have come a long way.

Chris,
In the past, the Medicaid reimbursements were higher also.

The problem is now and in the future with pending cuts to Medicaid by the Federal Government, leaving us with having to make up the difference. How do you get around that without raising taxes each year?

John, the June 4th edition of The Daily News reported taht the home finished 2008 2.3 million in the black.

The Federal governments proposed Medicaid cuts are geared toward waste in the system and are tied to a bill that hasn't even gone to conference yet. The sky is not falling.

John,
Let's assume that this is a done deal. The county home is sold and privatized.
Will the sale of the home really stem the tide of rising taxes every year?

Bea, that’s a hollow argument. Taxes rise because of escalating costs, waste and special interests. You can’t throw your arms up in the air and say, Oh who cares if we waste money on my pet project because, taxes are going up anyways.

If I remember correctly taxes have remained steady at the county level for some time. That takes planning and proactive measures like this to keep a steady tax rate. That is exactly what has been happening at the county level.

Posted by Chris Charvella-
"John, the June 4th edition of The Daily News reported that the home finished 2008 2.3 million in the black."

Why is it that Chris has brought this up twice, but knowone is responding to it. The nursing home is in the BLACK. Thats right They made 2.3 Million in profit.
I wonder where the Daily got their info from? Like the ambulance deal, it is making a profit, yet is in threatof being sold.
Hmmm "Red Flags a Flyin here" What is going on?? Maybe some fact finding and answers are in order. Something is Arie.....Where's the 2.3 mill being transfered to, and who spearheaded this so called "expensive study" on the CGNH? Even curiouser is, what the "Study" cost taxpayers?? Any correct information would be much appreciated, and needed at this point in the game.

To be fair Karen, it doesn't look like the home will be in the black for 2009. The County manager has also said that the home ran at a deficit for 2008, we'll find out what the truth is soon enough.

Chris,
The home was also listed as having lost money in other years, so I would not pick one year and leave out the others. I'd ask why 2008 made money and is it likely to happen again. I think the study will answer that.

And while not yet a done deal, it looks like the closed door bill being done in DC will cut medicaid. Our Governnor seems to think so also. To say it is to cut waste is shaky at best. They are supposed to be doing that all the time. In fact, that is one of the reasons they gave when they cut the reimbursement rate before.

Fact: We do not get paid from medicaid for what it cost us. To make up the cost, either we pay higher taxes, or the home charge private insurance payers more to make up for it, or both.

Now, if you could get the our two US Senators to give us full payment for service and care, this would be easier. Instead, they take care of Nebraska and Louisiana. How about us?

http://www.co.genesee.ny.us/dpt/countymanager/budgetsummary.html

Karen,
The cost of the study will be public once the contract for it is awarded.

However, the group they are putting together to pick the contract winner will have two legislators, unnamed yet.

Since only one legislator, DeJanniero (D,) has come out against the sale, no matter what, I hope he is one of the two picked for balance.

John, I was just proving that making money is possible. While I don't believe it to be necessary, it certainly can be done.

No use discussing Federal bills that haven't gone to conference yet. There is no way to properly gage their impact. We can have that conversation when there are facts to discuss.

It's more likely to be Legislators Leadley/Zambito or Leadley/Grasso.

John an Chris, Thank You for your quick responce to my legitimate questions. Its all important, in one way or another. Cant wait for the totals,documentation, and reason for this RAN loan. The taxpayers of Genesee County, have EVERY right to have access to this information. Exersize Your Rights People!! Thats what they were given to you for....

The facts will not matter if it is not put up for a vote. Remember they denied us the chance to vote on the water deal.

Agreed John, whatever the study shows and if the Legislature decides we should sell, the final decision should rest with the voters of Genesee County directly. So, putting all the acrimony and arguments in this thread aside, it's good that Chris's group is causing the discussion early.

Dave,
I agree.

Yes, the disposition of the Genesee Co. Nursing Home should be decided by the voters.
What possible reason would the politicians object to bringing this to a vote? Isn't that democracy at work?

Deriding those who are spearheading a discussion only makes one wonder why. What reason is there to attempt to shut down or diminish the importance of an opposing point of view?

I don't understand the animosity against a special interest group. There are many who champion a cause for or against an issue that I may not agree with, but I certainly understand that they have a right to be heard.

Bea,
The special "interest group" hints that if you want to sell the home, you hate old people and want them to die, that you don't care.And no private home run for a profit can or ever will be any good. Maybe the group should have been more careful in its choice of words at times. And who knows, maybe some of them really believe it.

On the other side, people see a bunch who want cradle to grave care, paid for on the backs of the middle class taxpayer and call it "social justice". That gets them fired up, just like the other side.

Too bad the nursing home was ignored during the past election.

I'm not sure where the law stands on this issue being put to referendum. It would certainly be the equitable way to handle it though.

Write your legislator, I think they can put it out to ballot if they so desire

A ballot resolution will do nothing but, bring fear and disinformation into this process. We have County Legislators in office who won in landslide victories or obtained their positions without opposition. This tells me the public is VERY happy with who we have in those positions. I know I am so, let those with the facts make the call. That’s what they are paid to do. We live in a representitive democracy, if you don’t like what your legislator is doing, run for his/her job.

Well, Charlie does have a good point.

Does it mean that after an election we have no rights left as citizens to ask for a democratic process? That we just roll over and accept any and all decision? Public officials work FOR the people they represent and that includes those elected without opposition. And just because an election is over doesn't mean that the citizens have no recourse. They work for us!

Even with this 'Bowling Alone' disconnect, people are and will pay attention to this issue. The County Home connects many in Genesee County in a very personal way. Example: At my adult art class the other night, I was the only person in the room that <b>didn't</b> have a relative living in the County Home. They had already signed the petition in the entryway of the facility as they visited their loved ones. This issue touches many lives in Genesee County and from what I'm hearing people are paying attention.

It isn't fear mongering or peddling misinformation to alert the public about the Legislature's agenda, especially when the agenda could have very real consequences on people's lives.

A ballot referendum would be the very best way to decide whether or not to privatize a public facility that's been a safety net for the residents of this county since the 1820's.

Wonder what some would think about selling off jails and prisons. That would be a good way to get rid of all the legacy benefits from those facilities.

Lorie said" Wonder what some would think about selling off jails and prisons. That would be a good way to get rid of all the legacy benefits from those facilities."

AMEN!! I see no difference. As a matter of fact, if it were an either/ or thing, I would prefer private prisons. There are a few states out west that I know have them. Not sure if they make or lose money, but who cares. They aren't subsidized by the taxpayer directly, and I think are run with less bull**it bureaucy. Think of all those correction officers with a state pension. Makes sense

Lorie,
Just as a side note to your comment about selling prisons.

Democrat Governor Mario Cuomo did sell Attica in a slight of hand, to another State agency. Of course it was just a budget scheme, but it was sold.

Charlie Mallow wrote: "A ballot resolution will do nothing but, bring fear and disinformation into this process."

I say it'll bring transparency and will reflect the will of the people of Genesee County. I don't want to be a legislator, does that mean I'm supposed to shut up and accept what they do blindly?

Howard, I know it'll be messy; and you're right not many people will bother to get all the facts, they rarely do. I just think some issues are important enough to warrant a referendum. Sure, some will try to manipulate one way or another. I believe the truth will come through. I've been called naive and worse before. I'll say that we need to see a study on the Nursing Home, and this isn't me, but it seems the people on the side of not selling have a serious trust issue with the Legislature. What is that about?

One question that is really unknown right now is how many people even really care about the home.

If you have a friend or family members in the home, you care a great deal. If you think you might need to go there, you care.

But if you are young, or moved here in the past few years, or are planning to move out of the area when you retire, you might not care too much or not at all.

Since the 70s, New York State has discouraged referendums (with the exception of school districts). I believe the discouragement came from the top-down as state lawmakers questioned the practicality of tacking bond selling referendums onto election ballots for things such as transportation funding. The state constitution was interpreted to vest the decision-making power in the hands of representative proxy- the people elect their decision-makers, a mandate to make any and all decisions for the electorate. As county government began overseeing local zoning and planning, town and village boards, who had conducted referendums out of conscience to validate projects of major expense, were discouraged (if not barred) from polling. I recall when Bergen was redesigning the street-side parking in the village, some nay-sayers were advocating a referendum. The mayor noted at one public meeting that there would be no referendum. That project included state, county, local and Conrail funding. Such projects are front-loaded with studies and engineering; a commitment to go is necessary before the intitial planning funds are approved.

Posted by John Roach on January 10, 2010 - 10:34am
One question that is really unknown right now is how many people even really care about the home.

If you have a friend or family members in the home, you care a great deal. If you think you might need to go there, you care.

But if you are young, or moved here in the past few years, or are planning to move out of the area when you retire, you might not care too much or not at all.

John,
While shopping, yesterday, I was approached by three different people who are reading thebatavian. One of them DOES have a parent in the nursing home right now. Another's parents were both residents there before they passed. The third has no one in the home and admitted she has never visited there. However, Howard' pictures of the Batavia paintings prompted her to make a date with a friend to visit next week. She said she wanted to see what the home was like.
While we were talking, the man in line behind us chimed in and said he has been following along on thebatavian as well.
His first comment was "how do you deal with people who feel their tax money is wasted on the old?".
Sad question, isn't it?

I have heard a few who want to keep it, but more that said get rid of it. All say they want to know what it really costs.

Bea said "His first comment was "how do you deal with people who feel their tax money is wasted on the old?".
Sad question, isn't it?"

I don't believe anyone (except perhaps Peter) feels their tax dollars are being wasted on the old. I do believe that many people feel their tax dollars are being wasted IN GENERAL.
I'd also like to see real numbers as far as P/L statements, medicaid reimbursements,etc. While health care should not be a business, the reality at this time is that it is. Until such time that the government provides ALL with birth to cradle health care, I don't see it as fair to select some and not others. I have a difficult time with that "sand in the line" that Phil referred to.
I do want to point out that I still am a proponent of federal government run health care. It, along with providing a military, are the only 2 things the US government should be concerned with. Everything else can be dealt with on the state level, and down. Government needs to be downsized, not maintained, and certainly not grown. We have far, far too much bureaucracy in this society, and not enough common sense and empathy.
This nursing home issue is just one of millions of bubbles in the boiling caldron that is the USA, and my fear is an explosion is imminent.

This debate we are having has nothing to do with people’s feeling towards the elderly. It has everything to do with continuing to allow county government to subsidize a poorly run business with our property taxes. It is a failed argument to say that if the nursing home is privately run it would be bad for those who live there. My thinking is the opposite, it would be better for the residents. From what we have heard, there is no doubt a private company would probably even serve the employees better.

Bea and a few others have tried to turn their fight for union jobs into an emotional argument. They are wrong to say if you don’t agree with them, you don’t care about the elderly. That is irresponsible and nothing more than a scare tactic created to push an agenda that will be bad for the taxpayers, elderly and even the employees.

I’m sorry Bea; your group should have done a better job planning before you initiated your campaign. The people I talk to tell me they see through your transparent arguments and believe them to be inspired by the union.

Your group fails to understand that a good portion of our tax money comes from elderly people who can not afford the burdens already placed on them.

Charlie,
first, this isn't "my" group.
I was asked to join because I advocate for the senior citizens.
second, the group was not formed as a political tool or a union tool.
third, when you talk about the people who have a burden placed upon them, by taxes, then why not push for a vote and let the people make the decision after the study is completed.

Rumors run rampant on a hot issue. What you consider 'fear mongering' really isn't. The fear that the county home will not be available for those, regardless of income, is real. The seniors discuss it often because they know how private homes are run. Many of them, even with their social security, can't afford a private home.

How difficult is that to understand? For many, it isn't the case of poor cash management, but caught in the same hole as the rest. They paid or pay their taxes; they had savings diminished; they stocks went south. They are paying co-pays that are out of sight.

Granted, I can understand why you and the rest don't want to be responsible for a generation that is no longer productive. As Phil stated, why should he commute and work 12 hours a day while there are those who sit and do nothing. Or, as Peter mentioned, why should his taxes pay for great grandma to be waited on hand and foot.

You and the others may think those are just clever bon mots to throw out, but to others take them serious.

Just for one moment, consider if you are wrong. The home is sold and the private organization only allows a small percentage of people with limited incomes. I know you think it is a stretch, but just think about it.
After the home is sold will it effect you or your lifestyle? Not in the least. But, what happens to those who can't afford private care? What happens to those who don't have family to care for them? These are the questions seniors are asking, and they are being asked by those who are still paying property taxes. Somewhere along the line there has to be a real answer to those questions just to quell the fear that you believe is manufactured.

Posted by Howard Owens on January 10, 2010 - 2:10pm Obviously, there are private facilities that only cater to those who can afford a certain level of private care, but with all the money to be made off of public assistance patients, surely there is a market for public facilities that cater to that clientele.

Apparently there isn't enough money to be made by providing a home for those who most need it.
That is why the county wants to get out of the business and why private institutions limit the number they will take in.
So, once again, where do these people go?

The nursing home on State st. is private and they taken in medicade people ,So does the Village Green in LeRoy ,so there are two place that they can go..Plus as Howard just said "They go to the Genesee County Nursing Home, just as in the past and the present. "

Bea, I have no problem paying my Social Security tax. I would have no problem paying extra payroll taxes to reform our health care system and ensure that elderly can have adequate nursing homes. All of those things would benefit me one day as well.

This fear on the other hand is an intended by product of the group you are working with. As Howard says it is completely manufactured. This stand will end up hurting your cause in the long run.

My argument with you is very limited. I do not believe county or any other level of government should run a business. That is socialism and it is not a function of our government to run businesses. I don’t want to rehash my reasons but, it comes down to efficiencies and government is not efficient.

Posted by Howard Owens on January 10, 2010 - 4:44pm
Just to be clear -- I say it's manufactured at this point. I'm cognizant of the idea that facts or research may come forward that will validate the concerns. I'm just saying, we're not there yet.

What difference will it make, Howard? No matter how many facts or studies are quoted will not even make a dent in the belief that all the facts and figures were manufactured. Haven't you figured it out yet, anything that goes against what they want can't be right.

"My cause"! I love that. My cause is to make sure ALL the facts come out and not just the information that the county feels we should see. The same people who claim they don't trust "government" to run anything, seem equally capable of trusting the "government" on this one. Odd isn't it?

Restructuring Local Government, from Cornell University
I placed a link at the bottom for the entire report.
This is just a small portion:
More and more, counties are asking whether they should even be in the nursing home business. Because some, if not most, of the higher costs associated with county homes stem from the fact that they are units of county government, counties are looking into options that limit their role in the operation of the nursing home. Along a continuum ranging from the least limitation of the county’s role to complete divestiture of responsibilities, options that counties have considered or tried include:

Contract for management services to operate the county home. Under this option the county would retain ownership of the home, but in contract out responsibilities for varying degrees of the day-to-day management of the home.

Sell licensed beds. The county could transfer the license to operate some of its beds to a new operator. While the county would lose control of those beds, it would gain financially from the sale and could convert the sold nursing home beds into lower levels of care while retaining the remaining unsold beds for nursing home care.

Convert the home to a public benefit corporation. The nursing home would become a quasi-governmental entity essentially divorced from the county, though the county could retain some control by appointsing some members of the PBC board. Two counties in New York State are attempting to put public benefit corporations in place. This option frees counties from the responsibility of operating the nursing home, and depending on the enabling legislation, preserves civil service protections for employees.

Transfer the home to a not-for-profit corporation or sell to a proprietary corporation. A county could transfer or sell the home to a newly created or already existing not-for-profit corporation or sell the home outright to a proprietary operator. In each of these scenarios, the county is freed from the costs and responsibilities of operating the home, but also loses control. Its ability to help assure a continuation of the home’s historic mission will vary by the type of organization to which the home is transferred.
These and other alternatives to the existing relationship between counties and their nursing homes are discussed in greater detail in the report. While giving up ownership of its nursing home may save a county home, the county will also lose the ability to control the home’s future and the extent to which the new owner maintains the homes’ historic mission. Many administrators expressed concern about what would happen to the county’s more difficult-to-place patients; many were also concerned with job protection for their staff (an average of 300 employees per county home).

In the report, CGR details the points that county policymakers will need to consider as they grapple with decisions about the county home in a changing environment. The most appropriate options must be determined on a case by case basis, depending on the circumstances unique to each county.

http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/reports/options/summary.asp

Fulton County and Albany County are also grappling with this.

Fulton County
"....RFP, eventually will go to health care businesses and nursing homes, which would have to explain why they want to buy and operate the county facility. He said the RFP would go to health care facilities primarily in New York state, but possibly throughout the Northeast.

"They're going to have to explain their goals and how they would fit into the county," he said.

Stead said the county wants to have a return date for the proposals of sometime during the first quarter of 2010.

Pryor couldn't be reached for comment.

Facility Administrator Jennifer Gilston said Wednesday that residents and their families at the county nursing home are "absolutely" concerned and "fearful" about whether the facility will be privatized. In particular, she said residents are worried they might be forced out of the infirmary if a private company takes over.

"The reason is fear of the unknown," Gilston said.

She said there are only two other nursing homes in the county - Nathan Littauer Hospital's Gloversville Extended Care Facility and the Wells Nursing Home in Johnstown. She said the main question asked at her facility's Resident's Council meetings is, "Is there a possibility I might be displaced?"

Gilston said that when there is a potential buyer for the county nursing home, "anything can happen.
http://www.leaderherald.com/page/content.detail/id/518022.html

Albany facing the same issues, but looking for different solutions.
"We have an obligation to provide care for the indigent in the NYS Constitution. A new nursing home is desperatly needed. Regulations require sprinklers by 2013 and our existing facility will not be in compliance.

More than the new facility, we need effective leadership. Our residents and staff deserve better. The current leadership must be replaced with a recognized nursing home expert. In other words, we need the John Egan of the nursing home industry to run our facility.

We have offered a remedy, a public benefit corporation (PBC), much like the Airport Authority and Sewer District. The PBC would lease all of the County employees from the County except the Director. The Director would be hired by the board, chosen by the County Legislature, CountyExecutive, NYS Legislature and Governor.

The proposed Legislation to acheive this result would require action by the County Legislature, New York State Legislature, County Executive and Governor. The appointment of a high quality director for the Nursing Home would free the County from the management of the facility, improve the service to residents and staff, reduce the enormous loses to the taxpayers and allow for the construction of the new facility.

We cared enough in the past to provide excellent management for the Airport and the Sewer District but fail to provide this level of managment for our elderly residents of Albany County.

Majority Leader Frank Commisso and County Legislator and County Chairman Dan McCoy assured me yesterday at the Memorial Day Parade that they were prepared to move forward with the new facility soon. The key to a sucessful facility is to put top notch management in place.

Our children are watching how we treat the medically frail and elderly. Let’s do the right thing and get top notch management and a new facility for Albany County. We can improve lives and save tens of millions of dollars doing the right thing."

http://blog.timesunion.com/conners/albany-county-needs-a-new-nursing-ho…

The other items I posted? A Cornell study and the concerns from other counties were not in response to your psot, Howard. They are just food for thought.

"Does Investor Ownership of Nursing Homes Compromise the Quality of Care?," by Charlene Harrington, Steffie Woolhandler, Joseph Mullan, Helen Carillo, and David Himmelstein, answers its own question in the strongest possible affirmative: "Our results suggest that investor-owned nursing homes deliver lower quality care than do nonprofit or public facilities."

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/91/9/1452.pdf

YNN covers Nursing Home story.
http://rochester.ynn.com/western-ny-news-2075-content/top_stories/49271…

I saw the YNN spot. Nice to see local coverage, but it didn't amount to much.

Posted by Lorie Longhany on January 10, 2010 - 10:47pm
"Does Investor Ownership of Nursing Homes Compromise the Quality of Care?," by Charlene Harrington, Steffie Woolhandler, Joseph Mullan, Helen Carillo, and David Himmelstein, answers its own question in the strongest possible affirmative: "Our results suggest that investor-owned nursing homes deliver lower quality care than do nonprofit or public facilities."

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/91/9/1452.pdf

Lorie, I was especially struck by the findings:

Our findings on quality in long-term care
mirror data from acute-care settings.

37 Investor owned hospitals have higher costs

38–48 despite spending less on clinical personnel than do
nonprofit facilities.

47 Death rates and postoperative complication rates also are higher at investor-owned hospitals,

46,49 and nurse staffing levels are lower.

49 Investor-owned health maintenance organizations have worse quality scores and spend less on care and more on administration and profits than do not-for-profit
plans; overall costs are identical.

50 Nursing homes care for many people who
are too frail, too sick, too poor, and too powerless
to choose or even protest their care.

We believe that it is unwise to entrust such
vulnerable patients to profit-seeking firms.

The propaganda link says, “47 Death rates and postoperative complication rates also are higher at investor-owned hospitals”.

That makes lots of sense because, everyone knows that people who are in the health care field and who don’t belong to a union are bad at their jobs… HA

Like I said FEAR tactics….

Links are like _____, everyone has one! I have found that once people resort to posting links, the discussion is over.

A fair look at the situation.
http://thedailynewsonline.com/articles/2010/01/11/opinion/editorials/do…

Bea, I think we can agree on that. Let them look at the matter without a preconceived limitation.

Posted by Charlie Mallow on January 11, 2010 - 8:02am
The propaganda link says, ....
I have found that once people resort to posting links, the discussion is over.

Howard asked for study results. You consider any study propaganda. Discussion is over.

I took a break from this for a couple days, but we're still where we were when I left on Friday.

Allow me to make a few things clear to the posters here:

You ask for links to studies but when you are supplied with them you categorize them as propaganda. This tells me that ideology has trumped judgement. I will no longer accept at face value your claims that you want to 'see the study' before making up your minds. You already know how you feel about the issue and I'll have more respect for your opinions if you'll just be more honest about them.

You continue to tell me what my group should be fighting for and concerning itself with. Let me be perfectly clear, I know exactly what my group is fighting for. I determine the goals of my organization, not you. Our goals have been set, our plan has been determined and we have been implementing our strategy exactly the way we want it. No amount of scapegoating or redirection will move us from our path.

Our only concern is for the people of Genesee County who needed a voice but didn't have one. We are offering them the opportunity to have that voice and they are using it. All of you would do well to take a moment and listen.

I was adressing one and all, Howard.

Chris and Bea whether I agree with you or not I like the idea that you have taken up the cause. People need to stand up for things they believe in.

Amen to that Charlie!!