It's a fact that lowering taxes across the board encourages growth. The growth in turn generates more tax revenue. Higher taxes drive business and people away.
Less government is a better solution than increasing any tax rate. I believe we are already overtaxed so any increase is ludicrous.
Very Good Points Doug. Taxed to Death! When will it stop?
Check out the rise in unemployment from 2007, until now, in the USA.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9jBNyysbho&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9jBNyysbho&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Doug, your points are all correct but, there are not enough people willing to drop their service level or see people lose their jobs to lower taxes. I’m also pretty sure that once Council looks at the budget they will make small cuts to drop the percentage 1% or 2%.
What they do in Austin is lower your tax rate and then appraise your home for more than it is worth. In the end you pay 3% more, but it makes you feel good because your taxes are lower. Try that.
Charlie how do you know that people are not willing to have their levels of service dropped or see people loose their government jobs so taxes can be lowered? There has never been a vote or referendum. Why not let the tax payers decide which departments to trim or eliminate and which jobs to cut.
I think it is insane that we have both a City Police Force as well as a county. I ran on and still for a police consolidation! That is something that could be looked into right now.
That will take a while to do, so I think council should be working on that this year.
Richard, my life experience over the last couple years has given me a good handle on what people are willing to accept in this city. There is a very vocal minority who think as we do but, the rest do not. I have found that a lot of people like to chest pound till you point to something that can actually be cut and then the “outrage” begins. The service levels that exist in the city are pretty much as low as the residents are willing to accept.
Our city is no different than every other town in NY. New Yorkers like their government and like to complain about taxes. In my opinion our only hope lies with our governor. He needs to continue down his present course and cast off the elitists in his own party. I hope he continues the independent course he as set and joins with like minded people to shock this state back to reality.
Let government employees do the same thing I had to do. I took a 6% pay cut, lost all overtime, went to an hourly rate for vacation pay instead of a percentage based vacation paycheck and had my wages frozen for three years. The pay cut plus the no overtime order has easily cut my gross salary by 30%.
While I and so many other employees work through this financial setback, the company leaders yet again made multi-million dollar bonuses on top of their absurd salaries.
Charlie, if you look at "upstate" counties, their political affiliations are overwhelmingly conservative. They would rather not have big government and all of the wasteful programs.
Downstate and larger urban areas in NY tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and dictate policy as such. Rural areas that tend to be conservative and encompass larger geographic areas are dominated by the sheer number of the population clustered into much smaller areas that tend to be liberal. NYC and Albany are liberal and that's what we get crammed down out throat, higher taxes and bigger government.
Evidence to support my statements is the fact that Paterson introduced something like 146 new taxes and fees shortly after he hit the governorship lottery. He never started talking about cuts, tightening the belt or bringing back manufacturing until his approval numbers fell so low that even HE could see how low they were.
I ran out and bought all my lifetime hunting licenses and tags before the huge license fee increases went into effect last year (2009). There's no way I was going to pay the new fees so it was either "save money over time" or "hunt without a license and take my chances". Considering the fact that one poached deer will cost you $2500 plus losing your gun, vehicle and prohibit you from buying a hunting license for 5 years, getting the lifetime license made sense.
I'm still paying cash for as many items and services as I possibly can in order to reduce my tax burden to the state. As stated before, I believe I'm over taxed and will do what's necessary to reduce the burden to myself.
Doug,
This tax increase, whatever it come out to be in the end, is a local City of Batavia tax, not state wide, so your Upstate vs Downstate argument is not valid on this. And Batavia is not a "liberal" city by any means. It's pretty much middle of the road.
State wide, you are sort of right. Many upstate counties are Democrat leaning. Look at Erie and Monroe. Even Niagara county is tilting that way. In Genesee County, the City of Batavia, LeRoy and some other areas are almost half and half. True, this year Republicans swept the 3 city races, but they also ran a better, more unified campaign.
Charlie, once again, where would you as just a member of the community want to see services cut to reduce your taxes. You keep talking about "people" as if they were a separate entity than you and that they are responsible for the tax increase.
Where would you, as a resident and tax payer want to see services cut?
Bea, I have become tired of defending proposed cuts from people with interests other than providing good value to our residents. I’m actually pretty happy with my city tax bill. I understand that our city taxes represent a good value. Our overall burden rises because of the politicians in Albany who stand in the way of good people like our governor and Steve Hawley. Then there are special interest groups that look for government to provide more than it should.
I am also not going to put myself into a position of applying public pressure on Council. They have a tough job and are more than capable of looking out for our interests. If you are truly interested in cuts that I proposed in the past there is a long record of them online but, it’s not my place to advocate for those changes any longer. I’m not Batavia’s Dick Cheney.
Quite honestly, I agree that the services received from the City of Batavia represent good value.
However, you have asked the questions of others, "what services would you like to see cut?". I just thought I'd ask you the same question. Your answer is a fair one. Fair, until you decided to knock special interests groups.
I get the impression that you have no use for special interest groups. Which is your right.
It is unfortunate that you believe that the citizens airing their views is putting pressure on council. Should they not have a voice? The voting public is not a class of children who's "interests" can only be determined by the Council. There are valid reasons to stand up and be heard.
The frustration, from this side of the table, is watching the bored and disinterested demeanor of those who should be listening. Bored and disinterested because of the belief that citizens taking the opportunity to speak before the council are wasting council's time.
Why even bother to allow the citizens the time to speak?
I never noticed anyone on Council being disinterested, that is strange statement. Council people are extremely interested in what they are doing. The fact is there is rarely anyone at Council meetings.
Special interest groups usually represent a small group of people looking for a larger piece of pie than they deserve. Their only interest is in taking our money. These groups only speak for their own self interests and usually are working against the best interests of the majority of residents. They are the lobbyists; they grease the wheels and represent what is wrong with our system.
I know this comment will get attacked but to me the only ones who should have any opinion or voice in this matter are those that pay property taxes...To many times we see that a those who don't pay any city taxes do the most complaining about cuts ..Its those of us with skin in the game who's opinion should matter the most..The trash issue is a good example,the non profits don't pay but yet they want there voice heard...The same was happening on the city ambulance issue,some of the loudest voices to keep it were from people who didn't pay taxes in the city....This is also why the upper management in the city should also live here and pay taxes here..Ex.Asst Manager Sally Kuzon..
They make daily decisions on how the city is run ,and if those decisions cause the taxes to go up it no big deal to them...You want to work here,you should live here.....
Mark, I agree with you but, there is one point you are missing. Jason and Sally do care deeply about the tax rate, just not for the same reasons we might. They are both building a resume and that is based on proving to other communities how well they handled the finances of our city.
No city is going to hire a City Manager that has a track record of excessive tax increases. Also, Jason does live in Batavia and from what he has told me, he and his wife would like to stay.
Mark,
No attack here.
I totally agree, and have always believed, that those who serve in a decision making position should live in the community. There is no vested interest in the outcome of their decisions when they are not impacted by them.
As far as your opinion that only tax payers should have a voice are those who pay property taxes. This is not a new idea. Where do you draw the line on who and who can't voice an opinion on the issues that face a communtiy?
I paid property taxes for years. Did that make my voice more valid than it is now? Even now a portion of my rent is used for PILOT (pay in lieu of taxes) which goes for the trash pick up service.
As I said, no attack here. I understand the frustation. In many cases, I will stand with you to fight against loval government spending and waste. It does exist.
Oh wait! If I can't have a voice because I no longer pay property taxes, then I certainly can't have a voice to speak out against ill advised spending.
Who will decide when it is okay to speak out?
John, I know that the Batavia tax increase proposal has nothing to do with the state tax. I was using it as an example in response to Charlie's comments. My point was about taxes in general and how they're too high.
Monroe county has typically been a conservative county, not liberal. I lived in Monroe county from 1982 to 2003 and owned a house in the city of Rochester for 13+ years. Rochester dominates county politics and has been quite liberal ever since I can remember. This gives the county the appearance of being liberal.
When I say upstate, that's just about every county above Bronx county. There are 62 counties in New York and of course the vast majority of them are upstate. The 2008 population estimate was 19,490,297 people. The 5 boroughs of NYC alone have a population of (2008 estimated) 8.3 million people. That represents 42.7% of New York's total population stuffed into a tiny area of the state.
However you look at it, the liberal trends of the most urban areas of the state overwhelmingly influence every other county.
I wish I could explain myself better. If you just look at the total population of the state and see how they vote, Democrats have the majority. If you go out into the entire state and see how people living rurally vote (outside of the larger urban areas) they vote Republican/conservative.
I think anyone that lives in Batavia should have a voice for their concerns, but I understand what Mark is saying. People who will be affected by the service, but not the cost is frustrating.
You can't limit people's freedom of speech, right to assemble or need for representation. That being said, I think that those of us that are going to be affected more need to get out and do more to have OUR voices heard!
I think that too often it is percieved, that only those other voices are being taken seriously. I know that the majority of Batavians do NOT want a tax increase, but I also know that same majority will not attend meetings in large groups to voice their displeasure or assemble and protest.
In case any of you haven't noticed, the only local politician that actually responded to citizens on this site on any other is no longer on council. They may read this, but they will not put themselves out there for reproach and most of us are just a little too busy on a Monday night to go out and give it!
SO this is the system we have. Those who have a cause will fight for it with the passion that the majority talk about on blogs, but don't physically show.
I agree with you Mark, but as long as we taxpayers sit on the sidelines, we will always pay more.
Phil,
I said I wouldn't attack Mark an I didn't.
I understand his frustration and know that it is difficult for many to meet the burden that rising taxes bring.
But, where do you draw the line in deciding who has the right to voice an opinion or vote?
Do we exclude, from the democratic process, anyone who does not own property?
The perception that only property owners are concerned about the rising tax bill just isn't true.
I wouldn't be part of a group who's main objective was to "stick it to" the taxpayers. I don't know who would.
Thanks all for understanding the fustration of rising taxes...Seems like we pay a pretty fair amount of taxes to live in this little place called Batavia..And then you ask yourself what am i really getting in return for all these taxes..To me it doesn't seem like much..I have lived on my street for over twenty years,it has never been repaved it is in terrible shape ,I walk around the block and all i do is trip over broken sidewalks.I put out one bag of trash a week but pay for those who put out five times as much.They raise my assessment without even coming into to my house to get a real honest opinion of what its worth.In the last two year with all this house deprecation have they lowered anybody's assessment..And the city wants more money from me..Were has all the money gone that i have paid so far...The same with the water I pay for..Were has that money all gone ,Why weren't they repairing and maintaining the system,and now they want more more because they weren't doing what they should of been doing with my money in the first place..I pay 200 dollars a year for a Library i don't use....So you have to ask yourself am i getting my money's worth...I say no....
I would like to move into a more expensive house but i won't because of the taxes i would have to pay...
My concern with taxes isn't really with the city. The city is one of the most justifiable taxing agents I can imagine.
But I can also understand people not wanting not just one more tax.
But to me the big problem is the Federal government, which is just the epitome of wasteful spending and useless departments and programs.
And then the state.
And all the unfunded mandates pushed own on local governments, especially schools.
I know a lot of people have their complaints about Batavia City Government past and present, but at least it's close at hand. We can understand the issues about the ice rink or Dwyer, or see more directly how our money is being spent. Our disagreements or concerns are really just quibbles comparatively speaking.
The bigger agencies are just one big black hole.
Some government is necessary, and the more local it is, the more necessary it is, and the further away it is, the less necessary.
I don't think we should conflate our frustration with Albany and Washington with more manageable issues at the local level.
You make an excellent point, Howard, but I see another perspective. The frustration that people feel over the use of their tax dollars is only partially related to anti-tax sentiments. The prevailing ills are two: the inequity in tax burden and a lack of control as to how our tax dollars are spent.
The prime breakdown is in representation. Our "representatives" do not represent us. The system promises choice at election time: an opportunity to choose people who represent our values and priorities. What we get are not choices- but ringers offered up to us by committees dedicated to upholding the status quo. Call it good ol boy politics, call it beltway politics; it all adds up to a fix. It doesn't matter if its local, state or federal.
The problem is this debate has been around for many years only to have the tax burden get worse every year. I've been beat up on here for stating that voting is a waste of time because nothing changes as a result. I do feel there is more impact to be had by voting in local elections, but the increasing state mandates reduce that year by year. The fact is that as of 2009, my tax burden is at 63% of my pay, not including the rising cost of government mandated insurances. The amount of money left for me to be fiscally responsible (saving for retirement,saving for my kid's collage,saving for regulated home maintenance) is shrinking . You see today a lot of tax protests. These started out being principled acts, but have been ruined by angry Republican protesters who have lost their power.
This leaves me with the question of what can I do to stop paying for services I don't use or might not even agree with. The peaceful way to do this is to just stop paying for those services. I'm sure most here would think that should be punished by a jail sentence. If enough taxpayers willfully refused to pay, the government couldn't possibly jail them all. Change would then REALLY have to come.
I also think many here would stop paying if they didn't fear jail themselves, here in the land of the free.
It's a fact that lowering
It's a fact that lowering taxes across the board encourages growth. The growth in turn generates more tax revenue. Higher taxes drive business and people away.
Less government is a better solution than increasing any tax rate. I believe we are already overtaxed so any increase is ludicrous.
Very Good Points Doug. Taxed
Very Good Points Doug. Taxed to Death! When will it stop?
Check out the rise in unemployment from 2007, until now, in the USA.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9jBNyysbho&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G9jBNyysbho&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Wow! The American People are really hurting.
The question still remains,
The question still remains, what services should be cut to keep taxes from being raised?
Doug, your points are all
Doug, your points are all correct but, there are not enough people willing to drop their service level or see people lose their jobs to lower taxes. I’m also pretty sure that once Council looks at the budget they will make small cuts to drop the percentage 1% or 2%.
Charlie, As a tax payer and a
Charlie,
As a tax payer and a city resident, which services do you want to see dropped?
What they do in Austin is
What they do in Austin is lower your tax rate and then appraise your home for more than it is worth. In the end you pay 3% more, but it makes you feel good because your taxes are lower. Try that.
Charlie how do you know that
Charlie how do you know that people are not willing to have their levels of service dropped or see people loose their government jobs so taxes can be lowered? There has never been a vote or referendum. Why not let the tax payers decide which departments to trim or eliminate and which jobs to cut.
Holy Crap....I find I am of
Holy Crap....I find I am of the same mind as Rich Gahagan! That's scary
Why don't we the tax payers hold the council hostage ..It worked for the fireman :~}
Well I will answer this. I
Well I will answer this.
I think it is insane that we have both a City Police Force as well as a county. I ran on and still for a police consolidation! That is something that could be looked into right now.
That will take a while to do, so I think council should be working on that this year.
George, make no mistake, they
George, make no mistake, they do that here as well. :)
I wonder if taxes go up.Then
I wonder if taxes go up.Then will peoples rent go up again?
Richard, my life experience
Richard, my life experience over the last couple years has given me a good handle on what people are willing to accept in this city. There is a very vocal minority who think as we do but, the rest do not. I have found that a lot of people like to chest pound till you point to something that can actually be cut and then the “outrage” begins. The service levels that exist in the city are pretty much as low as the residents are willing to accept.
Our city is no different than every other town in NY. New Yorkers like their government and like to complain about taxes. In my opinion our only hope lies with our governor. He needs to continue down his present course and cast off the elitists in his own party. I hope he continues the independent course he as set and joins with like minded people to shock this state back to reality.
Let government employees do
Let government employees do the same thing I had to do. I took a 6% pay cut, lost all overtime, went to an hourly rate for vacation pay instead of a percentage based vacation paycheck and had my wages frozen for three years. The pay cut plus the no overtime order has easily cut my gross salary by 30%.
While I and so many other employees work through this financial setback, the company leaders yet again made multi-million dollar bonuses on top of their absurd salaries.
Charlie, if you look at
Charlie, if you look at "upstate" counties, their political affiliations are overwhelmingly conservative. They would rather not have big government and all of the wasteful programs.
Downstate and larger urban areas in NY tend to be overwhelmingly liberal and dictate policy as such. Rural areas that tend to be conservative and encompass larger geographic areas are dominated by the sheer number of the population clustered into much smaller areas that tend to be liberal. NYC and Albany are liberal and that's what we get crammed down out throat, higher taxes and bigger government.
Dan, yeah. You can bet on it.
Dan, yeah. You can bet on it.
Evidence to support my
Evidence to support my statements is the fact that Paterson introduced something like 146 new taxes and fees shortly after he hit the governorship lottery. He never started talking about cuts, tightening the belt or bringing back manufacturing until his approval numbers fell so low that even HE could see how low they were.
I ran out and bought all my lifetime hunting licenses and tags before the huge license fee increases went into effect last year (2009). There's no way I was going to pay the new fees so it was either "save money over time" or "hunt without a license and take my chances". Considering the fact that one poached deer will cost you $2500 plus losing your gun, vehicle and prohibit you from buying a hunting license for 5 years, getting the lifetime license made sense.
I'm still paying cash for as many items and services as I possibly can in order to reduce my tax burden to the state. As stated before, I believe I'm over taxed and will do what's necessary to reduce the burden to myself.
Doug, This tax increase,
Doug,
This tax increase, whatever it come out to be in the end, is a local City of Batavia tax, not state wide, so your Upstate vs Downstate argument is not valid on this. And Batavia is not a "liberal" city by any means. It's pretty much middle of the road.
State wide, you are sort of right. Many upstate counties are Democrat leaning. Look at Erie and Monroe. Even Niagara county is tilting that way. In Genesee County, the City of Batavia, LeRoy and some other areas are almost half and half. True, this year Republicans swept the 3 city races, but they also ran a better, more unified campaign.
Charlie, once again, where
Charlie, once again, where would you as just a member of the community want to see services cut to reduce your taxes. You keep talking about "people" as if they were a separate entity than you and that they are responsible for the tax increase.
Where would you, as a resident and tax payer want to see services cut?
Bea, I have become tired of
Bea, I have become tired of defending proposed cuts from people with interests other than providing good value to our residents. I’m actually pretty happy with my city tax bill. I understand that our city taxes represent a good value. Our overall burden rises because of the politicians in Albany who stand in the way of good people like our governor and Steve Hawley. Then there are special interest groups that look for government to provide more than it should.
I am also not going to put myself into a position of applying public pressure on Council. They have a tough job and are more than capable of looking out for our interests. If you are truly interested in cuts that I proposed in the past there is a long record of them online but, it’s not my place to advocate for those changes any longer. I’m not Batavia’s Dick Cheney.
Quite honestly, I agree that
Quite honestly, I agree that the services received from the City of Batavia represent good value.
However, you have asked the questions of others, "what services would you like to see cut?". I just thought I'd ask you the same question. Your answer is a fair one. Fair, until you decided to knock special interests groups.
I get the impression that you have no use for special interest groups. Which is your right.
It is unfortunate that you believe that the citizens airing their views is putting pressure on council. Should they not have a voice? The voting public is not a class of children who's "interests" can only be determined by the Council. There are valid reasons to stand up and be heard.
The frustration, from this side of the table, is watching the bored and disinterested demeanor of those who should be listening. Bored and disinterested because of the belief that citizens taking the opportunity to speak before the council are wasting council's time.
Why even bother to allow the citizens the time to speak?
I never noticed anyone on
I never noticed anyone on Council being disinterested, that is strange statement. Council people are extremely interested in what they are doing. The fact is there is rarely anyone at Council meetings.
Special interest groups usually represent a small group of people looking for a larger piece of pie than they deserve. Their only interest is in taking our money. These groups only speak for their own self interests and usually are working against the best interests of the majority of residents. They are the lobbyists; they grease the wheels and represent what is wrong with our system.
I know this comment will get
I know this comment will get attacked but to me the only ones who should have any opinion or voice in this matter are those that pay property taxes...To many times we see that a those who don't pay any city taxes do the most complaining about cuts ..Its those of us with skin in the game who's opinion should matter the most..The trash issue is a good example,the non profits don't pay but yet they want there voice heard...The same was happening on the city ambulance issue,some of the loudest voices to keep it were from people who didn't pay taxes in the city....This is also why the upper management in the city should also live here and pay taxes here..Ex.Asst Manager Sally Kuzon..
They make daily decisions on how the city is run ,and if those decisions cause the taxes to go up it no big deal to them...You want to work here,you should live here.....
Mark, I agree with you but,
Mark, I agree with you but, there is one point you are missing. Jason and Sally do care deeply about the tax rate, just not for the same reasons we might. They are both building a resume and that is based on proving to other communities how well they handled the finances of our city.
No city is going to hire a City Manager that has a track record of excessive tax increases. Also, Jason does live in Batavia and from what he has told me, he and his wife would like to stay.
Mark, No attack here. I
Mark,
No attack here.
I totally agree, and have always believed, that those who serve in a decision making position should live in the community. There is no vested interest in the outcome of their decisions when they are not impacted by them.
As far as your opinion that only tax payers should have a voice are those who pay property taxes. This is not a new idea. Where do you draw the line on who and who can't voice an opinion on the issues that face a communtiy?
I paid property taxes for years. Did that make my voice more valid than it is now? Even now a portion of my rent is used for PILOT (pay in lieu of taxes) which goes for the trash pick up service.
As I said, no attack here. I understand the frustation. In many cases, I will stand with you to fight against loval government spending and waste. It does exist.
Oh wait! If I can't have a voice because I no longer pay property taxes, then I certainly can't have a voice to speak out against ill advised spending.
Who will decide when it is okay to speak out?
John, I know that the Batavia
John, I know that the Batavia tax increase proposal has nothing to do with the state tax. I was using it as an example in response to Charlie's comments. My point was about taxes in general and how they're too high.
Monroe county has typically been a conservative county, not liberal. I lived in Monroe county from 1982 to 2003 and owned a house in the city of Rochester for 13+ years. Rochester dominates county politics and has been quite liberal ever since I can remember. This gives the county the appearance of being liberal.
When I say upstate, that's just about every county above Bronx county. There are 62 counties in New York and of course the vast majority of them are upstate. The 2008 population estimate was 19,490,297 people. The 5 boroughs of NYC alone have a population of (2008 estimated) 8.3 million people. That represents 42.7% of New York's total population stuffed into a tiny area of the state.
However you look at it, the liberal trends of the most urban areas of the state overwhelmingly influence every other county.
I wish I could explain myself better. If you just look at the total population of the state and see how they vote, Democrats have the majority. If you go out into the entire state and see how people living rurally vote (outside of the larger urban areas) they vote Republican/conservative.
Bea, I think anyone that
Bea,
I think anyone that lives in Batavia should have a voice for their concerns, but I understand what Mark is saying. People who will be affected by the service, but not the cost is frustrating.
You can't limit people's freedom of speech, right to assemble or need for representation. That being said, I think that those of us that are going to be affected more need to get out and do more to have OUR voices heard!
I think that too often it is percieved, that only those other voices are being taken seriously. I know that the majority of Batavians do NOT want a tax increase, but I also know that same majority will not attend meetings in large groups to voice their displeasure or assemble and protest.
In case any of you haven't noticed, the only local politician that actually responded to citizens on this site on any other is no longer on council. They may read this, but they will not put themselves out there for reproach and most of us are just a little too busy on a Monday night to go out and give it!
SO this is the system we have. Those who have a cause will fight for it with the passion that the majority talk about on blogs, but don't physically show.
I agree with you Mark, but as long as we taxpayers sit on the sidelines, we will always pay more.
Phil, I said I wouldn't
Phil,
I said I wouldn't attack Mark an I didn't.
I understand his frustration and know that it is difficult for many to meet the burden that rising taxes bring.
But, where do you draw the line in deciding who has the right to voice an opinion or vote?
Do we exclude, from the democratic process, anyone who does not own property?
The perception that only property owners are concerned about the rising tax bill just isn't true.
I wouldn't be part of a group who's main objective was to "stick it to" the taxpayers. I don't know who would.
Right. I know. I was agreeing
Right. I know. I was agreeing with you on that.
I also believe that until more people that feel the way they type actually stand up and make their voices heard, nothing will change.
I know you didn't attack Mark. Never thought you did.
Thanks all for understanding
Thanks all for understanding the fustration of rising taxes...Seems like we pay a pretty fair amount of taxes to live in this little place called Batavia..And then you ask yourself what am i really getting in return for all these taxes..To me it doesn't seem like much..I have lived on my street for over twenty years,it has never been repaved it is in terrible shape ,I walk around the block and all i do is trip over broken sidewalks.I put out one bag of trash a week but pay for those who put out five times as much.They raise my assessment without even coming into to my house to get a real honest opinion of what its worth.In the last two year with all this house deprecation have they lowered anybody's assessment..And the city wants more money from me..Were has all the money gone that i have paid so far...The same with the water I pay for..Were has that money all gone ,Why weren't they repairing and maintaining the system,and now they want more more because they weren't doing what they should of been doing with my money in the first place..I pay 200 dollars a year for a Library i don't use....So you have to ask yourself am i getting my money's worth...I say no....
I would like to move into a more expensive house but i won't because of the taxes i would have to pay...
Part of what Mark means are
Part of what Mark means are things like the Ice Rink. Many people want money spent on it, but don't live in the city or pay the taxes for it.
They have a right to make their points, but unless they live in the city and are paying for the services, who cares what they think?
Thats exactly what I mean
Thats exactly what I mean John.....
My concern with taxes isn't
My concern with taxes isn't really with the city. The city is one of the most justifiable taxing agents I can imagine.
But I can also understand people not wanting not just one more tax.
But to me the big problem is the Federal government, which is just the epitome of wasteful spending and useless departments and programs.
And then the state.
And all the unfunded mandates pushed own on local governments, especially schools.
I know a lot of people have their complaints about Batavia City Government past and present, but at least it's close at hand. We can understand the issues about the ice rink or Dwyer, or see more directly how our money is being spent. Our disagreements or concerns are really just quibbles comparatively speaking.
The bigger agencies are just one big black hole.
Some government is necessary, and the more local it is, the more necessary it is, and the further away it is, the less necessary.
I don't think we should conflate our frustration with Albany and Washington with more manageable issues at the local level.
You make an excellent point,
You make an excellent point, Howard, but I see another perspective. The frustration that people feel over the use of their tax dollars is only partially related to anti-tax sentiments. The prevailing ills are two: the inequity in tax burden and a lack of control as to how our tax dollars are spent.
The prime breakdown is in representation. Our "representatives" do not represent us. The system promises choice at election time: an opportunity to choose people who represent our values and priorities. What we get are not choices- but ringers offered up to us by committees dedicated to upholding the status quo. Call it good ol boy politics, call it beltway politics; it all adds up to a fix. It doesn't matter if its local, state or federal.
The problem is this debate
The problem is this debate has been around for many years only to have the tax burden get worse every year. I've been beat up on here for stating that voting is a waste of time because nothing changes as a result. I do feel there is more impact to be had by voting in local elections, but the increasing state mandates reduce that year by year. The fact is that as of 2009, my tax burden is at 63% of my pay, not including the rising cost of government mandated insurances. The amount of money left for me to be fiscally responsible (saving for retirement,saving for my kid's collage,saving for regulated home maintenance) is shrinking . You see today a lot of tax protests. These started out being principled acts, but have been ruined by angry Republican protesters who have lost their power.
This leaves me with the question of what can I do to stop paying for services I don't use or might not even agree with. The peaceful way to do this is to just stop paying for those services. I'm sure most here would think that should be punished by a jail sentence. If enough taxpayers willfully refused to pay, the government couldn't possibly jail them all. Change would then REALLY have to come.
I also think many here would stop paying if they didn't fear jail themselves, here in the land of the free.
Terry, Don't forget the
Terry,
Don't forget the sneaky cell phone tax the Batavia City School District has on city residents.
And remember the School Board members this year at election time if they have an opponent.