A 46-year-old Oakfield hunter was accidentally shot by his father while turkey hunting off Albion Road in Oakfield at 6:25 a.m.
Scott Hartman, of Lockport Road, is listed in critical condition at Strong Memorial Hospital, according to the Sheriff's Office, after he was taken there by Mercy Flight.
Hartman was reportedly in some heavy brush when his father, 71-year-old Howard Hartment, of Clinton Street Road, Batavia, saw movement he mistook for a turkey.
According to a Sheriff's Office report, the Hartmans entered the woods about 6 a.m. The two began calling and a turkey answered. Scott and Howard separated and continued calling. Scott went off to Howard's right. After about 10 minutes, Howard saw what he believed to be a turkey he was calling off to his left, at about 50 yards under a pine tree. When it cleared, Howard fired.
What Howard thought was a turkey turned out to be Scott. Scott had apparently circled around without Howard being aware of his new location.
After being hit by the shotgun pellets, Scott called 9-1-1 and walked out of the wooded/swamp area on his own.
Deputy Ron Meides handled the initial investigation, but it has now been turned over to the Department of Environmental Conservation for follow up.
UPDATE 2:37 p.m.: Strong Memorial now lists Scott Hartman in guarded condition.
UPDATE 3:17 p.m.: I requested from Strong's PR department a definition of "guarded." Here's what Jill D'Agostino wrote back: "Guarded" is the condition that’s typically assigned to anyone in one of our intensive care units. Patients who are on regular patient units (non-ICU) are listed as "satisfactory."
When you hunt and shoot
When you hunt and shoot someone why don't they revoke your hunting license ?
Gabor, More and more the
Gabor,
More and more the state has been prosecuting people involved in shooting incidents like these when there is negligence involved.
I hope the fellow who was shot ends up OK. I am sure his dad must have a terribly guilty conscience about the incident. I can't imagine the guilt I would feel if I ever accidentally hurt my son badly.
Mike, I don't think foul play
Mike, I don't think foul play on these situations but come on ! Why have a license fee and many hours of safety training, orange vest blah blah blah, when you have a gun the last thing you should do is shoot blindly. I do hope everyone is alright and people make sure they hunt safely.
This is why they tell you to
This is why they tell you to never stalk turkey. When turkey hunting you do not wear blaze orange because the turkey can see it so the son was, most likely, dressed all in camo. Quite a shame and was preventable, this is the second incident this weekend. Another man in his 70s shot a guy, while stalking, from over 50 yards away because he thought he was two turkeys. Not to mention these two shooting at movement can't tell if it is a man or turkey much less a Tom or hen, it is illegal to hunt hens in the spring. Pull there licenses for life... at a minimum.
This is why I have Backyard
This is why I have Backyard Chickens. Plus, I had Turkey just last Thanksgiving.
George Schall, you must be
George Schall, you must be around 30 years old. My son was into He Man, big time. The neighbor bought his boy a BB Rifle for his birthday and the kid set up He Man figures in front of the sliding glass door as targets. His dad got what he deserved for buying an eight year old a BB gun. The kid got what he deserved for shooting at He Man, and my boys and I still laugh about it twenty years later.
Go ahead keep messin with us
Go ahead keep messin with us during our breeding season and then wonder why you have terrorist turkeys. You brought this on yourselves with your current hunting policies and hundreds of years of repressive thanksgiving traditions. When is Obama going to give turkeys restitution.
http://www.mnn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/…
Hunting accidents happen.
Hunting accidents happen. Hopefully everyone involved will be okay.
Damn Obama, this is all his
Damn Obama, this is all his fault.
Terrorist Turkeys LOL
Terrorist Turkeys LOL
The father is a former game
The father is a former game warden from what a co-worker told me(and knows the family). My boss talked to a co-worker of Scott's and said the shot hit him in the face. Amazing that he could walk out if that was the case. Hopefully Scott will make a quick recovery.
This is extremely sad. All
This is extremely sad. All due respect to this old-timer but he should put his guns and hunting rights to rest. There is no way on earth that this should have happened. First of all a turkey's head, which is your focus killing point is approx 2 1/2 to 3 feet from the ground while walking. A hunters head (unless a midget) is almost 6 feet from the ground. What the hell was this guy aiming at. I hate to see accidents like this occur because there is nothing that drives me more than to see men in their 70's and 80's still in the outdoors hunting, but their comes a time for everyone. This is terrible news for all hunters afield.
Rule number one when out
Rule number one when out hunting: POSITIVLY identify your target AND what is beyond.
'nuf said
Ken, Age has nothing to do
Ken,
Age has nothing to do with hunting skill. Too many accidents are made by much younger people. This guy got careless and did not follow the rules.
John, I agree age has
John,
I agree age has nothing to do with hunting skill and I hope my skills remain and I am able to go afield as long as my body and mind will take me. Obviously this poor man's skills have deteriorated tremendously quite possibly because he is not a young bodied and minded 70 yr old. Nothing personal, it just happens. I feel horrible for this guy but he needs to examine his skill and safety levels before he ever hunts again. I love to see older gentlemen who are well into their 70's and 80's hunting but this is an age group that should self-assess each hunting season.
I just called Strong, Scott
I just called Strong, Scott Hartman remains in ICU. His condition is listed at "guarded" (which means, only, he's in ICU).
Talked to one of Scott's
Talked to one of Scott's co-workers this morning-he was told that he was hit in eye,and was put in induced coma for the time being.Howard,feel free to delete this if you see fit(in case any family members object).
Some of you guys really get
Some of you guys really get me. An accident is and accident. OK, so he IS and older gentleman. Are we automatically revoking driver's licenses for automobile accidents? The funny thing is, his right to that firearm is protected by the constitution. Maybe he can decide for himself that it is time to retire hunting. Accidentally shooting one's own flesh and blood can do that to a person. I happen to know these people eat their turkeys. Let's just legislate NY a little more instead though and take that away from them. Like we don't have enough useless laws on the books already. Let's start revoking driver's licenses for every auto accident (more fatalities there than anywhere!). Negligence? again, this was an honest accident. Not like he bought a black market weapon and did a drive-by. You anti-gun people never change...
Christopher, while I regret
Christopher, while I regret that some of these comments are heaping an awful lot of blame on Mr. Hartman without really knowing the complete picture, I do want to say: Nothing I've read here sounds anything to me like a challenge to the 2nd Amendment. In fact, I don't see -- point it out if I missed it, but I just reviewed the posts again -- any call for any government action. The suggestions that Mr. Hartman maybe shouldn't be hunting any longer were for him to make a voluntary, ungovernment, decision. The very essence of freedom.
I don't know Mr. Hartman, but I certainly support his right to continue hunting, or not, as he believes himself capable of doing. That's his own personal decision, and this once incident doesn't necessarily prove anything -- based on what little information we have -- as to his fitness for hunting.
To be completely honest,
To be completely honest, Christopher, a good majority of Batavia is right-wing and pro-gun. Your comment is a little off.
I fail to see how my comment
I fail to see how my comment is "off". I said an accident is an accident, but clearly see comments talking about revoking his license and negligence. I see nobody giving credit that Mr. Hartman is probably doing a huge self assessment right now and is capable of making his own decisions, along with his family. Revoking a license and prosecuting people WOULD BE government actions. The fact that Batavia is "right-wing" and "pro-gun: is irrelevant, when Albany isn't.
We won't know what happened
We won't know what happened till someone explains-I understand that spring turkey hunting is for toms,and fall is for hens.Maybe they were doing the wrong call,and lost track of each other.The elder Hartman is replaying this over and over in his head now-let's wait until one of them speaks on it......
I don’t think age matters
I don’t think age matters here. What matters is irresponsible hunting. You are supposed to identify your target as having a beard (Jake/Tom) or hen BEFOERE you shoot. It is ILEGAL to shoot hens in the spring. If he shot a man he did not identify the target and his license should be pulled. He is not a good ethical hunter. If he fell, stumbled and then shot him it was an accident that probably should not cause his license to be pulled.
Either way I don’t want to be in the woods with him.
No one here is saying take
No one here is saying take the guys guns away, or that he is not upset, I feel deeply for him and his son. This is the type of preventable incident that will make anti hunters want more legislation.
I don’t get all this right wing left wing stuff. The right wing, on the federal level, has spear headed the major anti gun bills the last few years.
The two anti gun bills that hurt us the most are the Brady Bill and Assault Weapons Ban.
Brady was a republican and the vote shows a very mixed with both democrats and republicans. The Assault Weapons Ban (done under Clinton) has done nothing to change violent crime says the congressional report but Republicans alone wanted to extend the ban
In 1989, following the infamous Stockton, California shooting in which an assault weapon was used to kill 5 children and injure 29 others, President George H.W. Bush banned certain imported assault weapons and this led to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban
The republican icon Ronald Regan supported the Brady Bill http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/op...l?pagewanted=1
****I am not republican bashing just pointing out no one party is 100% pro or anti gun.
Both side are to blame, watch out for those “conservatives” too.
Assault Weapons Ban 2008 bill
H.R. 6257 was introduced by Mark Kirk [R Ill.-10] on June 12, 2008 and sought to re-instate the Assault Weapons Ban for a period of ten years, as well as to expand the list of banned weapons. The bill was also referred to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security on 7/28/08. It had four co-sponsors (as of November 5, 2008) supporting it:
• Rep Castle, Michael N. - [R Del.-1] - 6/12/2008
• Rep Ferguson, Mike - [R N.J.-7] - 6/12/2008
• Rep Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana - [R Fla.-18] - 6/18/2008
• Rep Shays, Christopher - [R Conn.-4] - 6/12/2008
Here is the voting on the Brady Bill
XML U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 103rd Congress - 1st Session
as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Summary
Question: On Passage of the Bill (H.R. 1025, as amended, passage )
Vote Number: 394 Vote Date: November 20, 1993, 07:09 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Bill Passed
Measure Number: H.R. 1025 (Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act Federal Firearms License Reform Act of 1993 )
Measure Title: A bill to provide for a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun, and for the establishment of a national instant criminal background check system to be contacted by firearms dealers before the transfer of any firearm.
Vote Counts: YEAs 63
NAYs 36
Not Voting 1
Vote Summary
By Senator Name
By Vote Position
By Home State
Alphabetical by Senator Name
Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boren (D-OK), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Bradley (D-NJ), Yea
Breaux (D-LA), Nay
Brown (R-CO), Nay
Bryan (D-NV), Nay
Bumpers (D-AR), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Campbell (D-CO), Nay
Chafee (R-RI), Yea
Coats (R-IN), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Cohen (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Coverdell (R-GA), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
D'Amato (R-NY), Nay
Danforth (R-MO), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
DeConcini (D-AZ), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-KS), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Not Voting
Durenberger (R-MN), Yea
Exon (D-NE), Yea
Faircloth (R-NC), Nay Feingold (D-WI), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Ford (D-KY), Yea
Glenn (D-OH), Yea
Gorton (R-WA), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Yea
Gramm (R-TX), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hatfield (R-OR), Yea
Heflin (D-AL), Nay
Helms (R-NC), Nay
Hollings (D-SC), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Jeffords (R-VT), Yea
Johnston (D-LA), Nay
Kassebaum (R-KS), Yea
Kempthorne (R-ID), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerrey (D-NE), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Nay
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Mack (R-FL), Nay
Mathews (D-TN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Nay McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Metzenbaum (D-OH), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Mitchell (D-ME), Yea
Moseley-Braun (D-IL), Yea
Moynihan (D-NY), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Nay
Nunn (D-GA), Yea
Packwood (R-OR), Yea
Pell (D-RI), Yea
Pressler (R-SD), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Riegle (D-MI), Yea
Robb (D-VA), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Roth (R-DE), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Sasser (D-TN), Yea
Shelby (D-AL), Nay
Simon (D-IL), Yea
Simpson (R-WY), Nay
Smith (R-NH), Nay
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Wallop (R-WY), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Yea
Wofford (D-PA), Yea
Vote Summary
By Senator Name
By Vote Position
By Home State
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---63
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boren (D-OK)
Boxer (D-CA)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Danforth (R-MO)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeConcini (D-AZ)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durenberger (R-MN)
Exon (D-NE)
Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA)
Ford (D-KY)
Glenn (D-OH)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mathews (D-TN)
Metzenbaum (D-OH) Mikulski (D-MD)
Mitchell (D-ME)
Moseley-Braun (D-IL)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Murray (D-WA)
Nunn (D-GA)
Packwood (R-OR)
Pell (D-RI)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Riegle (D-MI)
Robb (D-VA)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Roth (R-DE)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Sasser (D-TN)
Simon (D-IL)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wofford (D-PA)
NAYs ---36
Bennett (R-UT)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bryan (D-NV)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (D-CO)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Dole (R-KS)
Domenici (R-NM) Faircloth (R-NC)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kempthorne (R-ID)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lott (R-MS) Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nickles (R-OK)
Pressler (R-SD)
Shelby (D-AL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Smith (R-NH)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Wallop (R-WY)
Not Voting - 1
Dorgan (D-ND)
Vote Summary
By Senator Name
By Vote Position
By Home State
Grouped by Home State
Alabama: Heflin (D-AL), Nay Shelby (D-AL), Nay
Alaska: Murkowski (R-AK), Nay Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Arizona: DeConcini (D-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Nay
Arkansas: Bumpers (D-AR), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea
California: Boxer (D-CA), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Colorado: Brown (R-CO), Nay Campbell (D-CO), Nay
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Roth (R-DE), Yea
Florida: Graham (D-FL), Yea Mack (R-FL), Nay
Georgia: Coverdell (R-GA), Nay Nunn (D-GA), Yea
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Idaho: Craig (R-ID), Nay Kempthorne (R-ID), Nay
Illinois: Moseley-Braun (D-IL), Yea Simon (D-IL), Yea
Indiana: Coats (R-IN), Yea Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Nay Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas: Dole (R-KS), Nay Kassebaum (R-KS), Yea
Kentucky: Ford (D-KY), Yea McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Louisiana: Breaux (D-LA), Nay Johnston (D-LA), Nay
Maine: Cohen (R-ME), Yea Mitchell (D-ME), Yea
Maryland: Mikulski (D-MD), Yea Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Yea Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Riegle (D-MI), Yea
Minnesota: Durenberger (R-MN), Yea Wellstone (D-MN), Yea
Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Nay Lott (R-MS), Nay
Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Yea Danforth (R-MO), Yea
Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea Burns (R-MT), Nay
Nebraska: Exon (D-NE), Yea Kerrey (D-NE), Yea
Nevada: Bryan (D-NV), Nay Reid (D-NV), Yea
New Hampshire: Gregg (R-NH), Nay Smith (R-NH), Nay
New Jersey: Bradley (D-NJ), Yea Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Yea Domenici (R-NM), Nay
New York: D'Amato (R-NY), Nay Moynihan (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina: Faircloth (R-NC), Nay Helms (R-NC), Nay
North Dakota: Conrad (D-ND), Yea Dorgan (D-ND), Not Voting
Ohio: Glenn (D-OH), Yea Metzenbaum (D-OH), Yea
Oklahoma: Boren (D-OK), Yea Nickles (R-OK), Nay
Oregon: Hatfield (R-OR), Yea Packwood (R-OR), Yea
Pennsylvania: Specter (R-PA), Nay Wofford (D-PA), Yea
Rhode Island: Chafee (R-RI), Yea Pell (D-RI), Yea
South Carolina: Hollings (D-SC), Nay Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
South Dakota: Daschle (D-SD), Yea Pressler (R-SD), Nay
Tennessee: Mathews (D-TN), Yea Sasser (D-TN), Yea
Texas: Gramm (R-TX), Nay Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Utah: Bennett (R-UT), Nay Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Vermont: Jeffords (R-VT), Yea Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Virginia: Robb (D-VA), Yea Warner (R-VA), Yea
Washington: Gorton (R-WA), Yea Murray (D-WA), Yea
West Virginia: Byrd (D-WV), Yea Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI), Yea Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming: Simpson (R-WY), Nay Wallop (R-WY), Nay
I don't know why the
I don't know why the right-wing and left-wing came into it either as well as, "assault weapons". I don't identify with either R or D since, one can be just as bad as the other when it comes to our liberty. It was said that nobody mentioned taking his guns away. The dirty little secret is that; if he was prosecuted (even in this county) he would likely be ordered to surrender his rights to firearms under some plea agreement, which means he couldn't even shoot skeet anymore. They have more than one way to skin the cat.
I don't even know the number of annual farm accidents in this county, but would guess there to be quite a few. Where are OSHA and the state on those? I didn't even see the farmers offered any occupational safety courses until recently. But I'm very concerned now that they are! Are we going to stop a man from turning his own soil?
Just to be clear; I'm not exempting any civil liability, but that's between the parties.
The gun used was a shotgun,
The gun used was a shotgun, not an assault weapon. This got into a left/right issue when it was suggested that maybe he was too old to hunt anymore and should lose his hunting license. It morphed into having his right to have a gun taken away.
This was a hunting accident, that's all it is.
"This was a hunting accident,
"This was a hunting accident, that's all it is. "
Ditto.
Truth above.
Truth above.
I used to like hunting
I used to like hunting because my dad liked hunting. Now I like shooting a BB Gun at tin cans because I've never met a person who doesn't like shooting BB's at cans. I like shooting a rifle in memory of my Dad, Raymond Richard Richardson Sr., an exceptional Father back when all dads were at least good, or better. Back in the good old days that I'm still trying to convince myself ever existed. Maybe they were good by my standards alone, but I have high standards, so I think it really was good. But who knows? Batavia childhood memories are so intensely weird they drove me to the Weird Capital of the World, Batavia's Sister River (Creek) City, Austin TexASS. They know about Batavia in Austin, because I told them, and they still don't want to move there. I could live like a King in Batavia, if it wasn't so cold in the Winter and I wasn't a LIBERAL, but I yam what I yam. I really do want to be King George of Batavia, but I can't make myself do it again. Ha ha Howard, this is all your fault.