A fight involving several men was reported at the corner of Wood Street and Pringle Avenue.
A purple van reportedly pulled up to the corner and four young men got out and started fighting with another group of men, and then fled.
Batavia Police have detained four young men with a purple van on Central Avenue.
Hmmm, I wonder if they will
Hmmm, I wonder if they will be charged with "gang assault". It's and actual charge in case you were wondering Howard. Not just pulling that one out of thin air. Because if they were to be charged with "gang assault" then that might imply that Law enforcement or the D.A. recognize a potential for gang activity in the fair city of Batavia.
Do the folks that took your
Do the folks that took your gang activity survey still that there's no gang problems in Batavia? Think again people - you are way off! Gang members are everywhere in this town. Please educate yourselves so that you'll know when you come across one.
Every time there's a fight
Every time there's a fight let's get all hysterical - my God it's GANG ACTIVITY.
Get a grip.
I wasn't trying to upset
I wasn't trying to upset anyone. But when people live in the dark the problem only grows.
And when people claim
And when people claim something is that isn't, it can create problems where there are none. I also see no value in generating fear where there is no cause for fear.
Jeremiah, I know a kid you
Jeremiah,
I know a kid you just jumped into a fight his friend was in. He was charged and found guilty of "Gang Assault", but it was no gang fight. It was a bunch of knuckleheads who got out of control.
The kids that hung out at the
The kids that hung out at the Y were tougher than the wannabes you folks are callin gangs. Wonder if any of them seen my new adidas high tops, they got three North Carolina blue stripes on the side?
I spoke with a police officer
I spoke with a police officer familiar with the case.
The individuals involved were all at a party on State Street over the weekend where people where drinking. A fight broke out. This incident was a continuation of the previous incident.
There is nothing, NOTHING to suggest this is gang related.
There will be no arrests because nobody wants to press charges.
George, you have zero, zip, zilch evidence of criminal gang activity in Batavia. Pontificate all you want, but it's just hot air. All of the facts are stacked against you, and in the absence of evidence, your only recourse is to attack me. That's more of a reflection on you than me, so go ahead. And if you don't like the way I run the site, don't read it.
I have a good friend that
I have a good friend that lives on Wood Street and i can tell you this is by no means an isolated incident. I won't throw around the "G" word, but judging by that part of town the least you can say is we are turning into Rochester Jr. at a pretty rapid rate.
Tim, Batavia has at least two
Tim, Batavia has at least two trouble streets -- Wood and State (I know a lot of people like to include Thorpe, but it's been pretty quite for several months now, outside of some domestics and such).
I know some residents on Wood are very upset at the situation there right now.
There is certainly a class of people in town (and I don't think they're all just people who have relocated here) who are habitually in trouble and seem to think laws don't apply to them.
And these people appear to be cohorts and associates. They hang out together and assistant each other.
George, I'm originally
George,
I'm originally from "crappy California" as well.
However, I don't share Howard's view on this issue.
John,
I know of a similar incident that took place at a graduation party in Leroy. Just some kids that got into a fight. The sheriff that showed up pressed the gang assault charge.
Howard,
"There is certainly a class of people in town (and I don't think they're all just people who have relocated here) who are habitually in trouble and seem to think laws don't apply to them.
And these people appear to be cohorts and associates. They hang out together and assistant each other."
That's dangerously close to a definition of a gang.
"Definition of "criminal street gang"
A criminal street gang is defined as any organization, association or group of three or more persons, whether formal or informal, which (1) has continuity of purpose, (2) seeks a group identity, and (3) has members who individually or collectively engage in or have engaged in a pattern of criminal activity. (Reference section 186.22(f) of the California Penal Code)"
I know the local law does not want to spook the good folk of Batavia with the "G" word. And no there is not a problem per say on the scale of a city like Buffalo or Rochester. You cannot deny that the incident you reported on above does not resemble gang activity just because no one is pressing charges.
I know for a fact Howard that there are people in this quiet little bedroom community known as Batavia, That would consider themselves a gang. Just because you and the local law enforcement does not recognize that fact does not make it so. You can only ignore the 800lb gangbanger in the room for so long.
The issue facing this city is not so far gone that nothing can be done about it. This where local law enforcement can organize residents to help them prevent the issue facing this city from becoming a problem.
Here is a couple stories that may give you something to think about. The first one is interesting because it is about a small rural town in Vermont that is similar in size to Batavia.
http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2008/02/18/news/news2.txt
This next one is about a small rural town in Washington state. Hopefully we don't follow their example. In their community it got to the point of drive-by shootings being a regular occurrence before the community stood up to do something about it.
http://news.opb.org/article/2184-one-year-later-small-town-gang-ordinan…
Jeremiah, just because you
Jeremiah, just because you say it is so, doesn't make it true.
If there was truly organized criminal gang activity in Batavia, this wouldn't be a debate. It would be recognizable to all.
But there is no recognizable organized criminal gang activity in Batavia. If there was it would be so damn obvious that it couldn't be denied.
To continue to insist that there is, in the face of a blatant and obvious absence of evidence is, in my view, irresponsible.
This is absolutely the most obviously ridiculous debate I've ever been involved in. I simply can't believe that any intelligent person would continue to insist that there are organized gangs based in Batavia.
You and George want to accuse me of boosterism, which I can certainly be legitimately accused of, but this isn't a case of boosterism. It's a case of fact, evidence and commonsense.
BTW: I've talked to multiple
BTW: I've talked to multiple sources since this subject first came up. I've spoken with multiple members of law enforcement, I've spoken to longtime residents, I've spoken to young people on the street who would be in a position to know ... I've asked specifically about "evidence" people have e-mailed me ... every single person in a position to know says it's joke to think there are organized gangs in Batavia.
Nobody denies that gang members visit Batavia. Nobody denies that there are wannabes in Batavia. Nobody denies that there are habitual criminals who tend to run together. But organized gangs -- you know, top leaders, protecting turf, running a criminal enterprise such as dealing drugs -- no way.
This is a question I ask frequently of people in a position to give a credible response.
The only people who say there are gangs in Batavia are people who leave comments on The Batavian but can offer absolutely no verifiable proof that their statements are true.
That's why I say this is such a ridiculous argument. Arguing that there are gangs in Batavia is like arguing that it never snows in Batavia.
Howard, I have emailed you
Howard,
I have emailed you the proof. People who tattoo themselves with gang tattoos and engage in any criminal activity as a group constitutes a gang.
For you and the local law enforcement to dismiss the issue as a joke is irresponsible. It leaves this community at a disadvantage. We can solve the issue before it becomes a problem.
I'm not saying it is so because I want to be right. I'm saying it is so because I have seen it with my own eyes.
BTW, my previous job as a military recruiter here in Batavia puts me in a position to be credible on the subject. I have to be able to identify individuals who are unsuitable for military service. There is a method to the Marine corps madness in regard to banning entrance to the service, anyone who has tattoos on their hand or neck. Not because those kind of tattoos are tacky in general, but because they are commonly associated with gangs.
Jeremiah, there is absolutely
Jeremiah, there is absolutely no evidence, despite my effort to confirm it, that anything you've e-mailed me is true.
If it were true, I would have done a story on it by now.
"A joke" is really too
"A joke" is really too strong. Nobody I talk to has come across anything to support what you suggested I check out.
"Not because those kind of
"Not because those kind of tattoos are tacky in general, but because they are commonly associated with gangs. "
Those kinds of tattoos are also commonly associated with wannabes, something I was quite familiar with in Ventura.
Do you know what happens when a Batavia gang wannabe with those tattoos goes to Buffalo? They get their butts beat.
The Marines are smart to keep such individuals out, not because they are gang members, but rather because their mindset is one to glorify criminal activity, which means they are unlikely to conform to military discipline.
Howard, looks like we are
Howard,
looks like we are just going to always disagree on this one.
I'm fine with "agree to
I'm fine with "agree to disagree," but one other thought I had: George has accused me of being a page view whore. If that were true, don't you think that a story with the headline "Evidence of gang activity in Batavia" would drive a lot of page views?
I'm certainly cognizant of the power of such stories, and as I journalist, I always want to break the big stories, but I care more about the truth, and I've come across nothing that would lead me to wanting to write a story saying there is gang activity in Batavia.
For what its worth, NYS Penal
For what its worth, NYS Penal law for "gang Assault"
y.
S 120.06 Gang assault in the second degree.
A person is guilty of gang assault in the second degree when, with
intent to cause physical injury to another person and when aided by two
or more other persons actually present, he causes serious physical
injury to such person or to a third person.
Gang assault in the second degree is a class C felony.
S 120.07 Gang assault in the first degree.
A person is guilty of gang assault in the first degree when, with
intent to cause serious physical injury to another person and when aided
by two or more other persons actually present, he causes serious
physical injury to such person or to a third person.
Gang assault in the first degree is a class B felony.
key thing to note is "....when aided by two
or more other persons actually present.... " what that basically means is that it doesn't have to be anything organized or gang in the Bloods etc type gang to be a "gang assault"
basically you and two friends are walking down the street and get in a fight. no matter what the premise etc, if all three of you join in its a gang assault.
case of "legal words" and popular use words almost being the same but having a major difference.
edit: forgot to cite my source http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article120.htm#120.06
Jeremiah wrote:"A criminal
Jeremiah wrote:"A criminal street gang is defined as any organization, association or group of three or more persons, whether formal or informal, which (1) has continuity of purpose, (2) seeks a group identity, and (3) has members who individually or collectively engage in or have engaged in a pattern of criminal activity."
I know how to fix Albany! Declare the legislature and senate gangs, and throw them in the clink. Problem solved.