Today's Poll: Do you believe Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen?

Really?

I was thinking the same thing! Really? Poor question for today's poll.

You should have asked: Are you a conspiracy theorist with below average intelligence?

Missing answer: don't care

Birthers are funny and overwhelmingly Republican.

Tomorrow's poll question: Do you think Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster?

And for Monday: Do you think Dick Cheney was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks?

The same people that think he's not a citizen are the same that claim they are just following the constitution.

Unless it's about killing brown people in unconstitutional, Illegal wars.

Unless it's about birth-right citizenship (think they should be sent away)

Unless its about same sex marriage (just determined the ban to be unconstitutional)

Everybody knows Hillary killed Vince Foster. ;)

And No is winning 99-71.....

Under the law if he was born outside of the U.S. as his grandmother and members of the Kenyan government have said, since he was not born to two American citizens, he is not a natural born American.

Last week (maybe 2 weeks ago?) There were people in front of the Akron Post Office. They were holding signs that they wanted to get Obama out of office by Sept because "he wasn't born here"........

Are these people really serious?????

I guess it goes along with the guy down the street that had a hand painted sign in front of his house since Obama won. It said:

Obama's Amerika with a hammer and sickle (sp?)

He finally took it down maybe a month ago....unbelievable!

Are you paying attention to your loss of liberty Julie? We are turning away from freedom and towards government control. That hammer and sickle were prophetic.

What liberties have you lost since January 2008 Peter?

The freedom to choose or not choose to buy health-care without penalty.

This poll question helps perpetuate the idiocy. I won't even vote.

But it is very disturbing to note that only 38 percent of the Batavian's respondents believe the President was born in the United States. This is not a reflection on the President, it's a reflection on this community.

The penalty was always there Thomas, it's just that those of us who do pay for health insurance were paying it in the form of higher premiums.

The new health care bill puts me in servitude to pay for other peoples health care insurance. Not to mention my right to not have health care insurance.

My right not to fund abortions is gone thanks to Obama funding them overseas.

Because of the large amount of deficit spending, more of my money will need to be taken away, and with it my liberty to spend what I earn on what I want.

His administrations choice not to prosecute the New Black Panthers encourages groups to intimidate me when I try to vote against what they want removing my freedom to freely choose my representatives.

And lets not forget that Obama has no regard for the tenth amendment.

Our liberties were lost on Sept 11, 2001.

and personally, I DON'T have the same liberties as you do Peter. YOU take your liberties for granted on a daily basis.

AND wasn't it the Republicans that got us into this horrible deficit problem to begin with?

I'd rather fund abortions ALL DAY than pay the WELFARE for these children (and the children they are going to have)

The Repubs win: We are slaves to WalMart

The Dems win: we are slaves to the government

shrug!

I take my liberties for granted? Where do you get that from?

We're paying for foreign abortions, we wouldn't have to pay for welfare for them and we shouldn't pay for either here.

The republicans didn't explode the debt the way Obama has.

Why do we become slaves to walmart?

Get ready to pay even higher premiums then and higher property taxes as more and more are pushed into medicaid by the feds. O-care was sold as reducing premiums, I knew it was a lie to begin with but others might have believed it. Instead we will all be left with less choice and higher prices still. I can't use my FSA (flexible spending account) any longer to buy OTC medicines. Less choice and freedom.

There have been a few cases of army personal refusing to deploy to combat zones, saying Obama is not the legal commander in chief because he has not proven he was born here. Two enlisted members were allowed to leave the service, the military did not push the issue.

Now, a Lieutenant Colonel has refused to deploy for the same reason. It will be interesting to see what the Army does in this case.

Let me make sure I have this correct Peter, health care and black people are the root of your problems and are taking away your liberties.

Glad to have you back here posting again, I need a good laugh now and then.

Thomas, my premiums are going down this year.

John, those soldiers need to go to jail. Period.

Any people who intimidate others at the polls are the problem. I didn't want Obama as president but I wasn't at the polls in 2008 with a night stick telling people not to vote for him. I respect a persons right to vote even if I think their vote is misguided.

Yeah that's exactly what I said Chris.....

Chris,
Maybe they should, maybe not.

But what I find interesting is that the Army didn't push the issue to put them in jail and the case of the LTC is still pending.

Chris, they won't even take them to court martial because of the discovery process

That's great for you Chris but right now I get the same premium for reduced coverage. The feds need to get the hell out of everything except what is enumerated in Article 1, Section 8. Regulation only leads to higher overhead and more bureaucrats telling people what they can't do. Higher prices.

That's fair Thomas, but let's remember that the health care bill that was passed doesn't go into full effect until 2013. We should probably wait until then to pass judgment on how well it's working.

I didn't love the bill we got; I was always a proponent of a single payer system. See my explanation of a whole-assed approach to health-care here:

http://thebatavian.com/blogs/howard-owens/todays-poll-do-you-want-congr…

If its anything like past programs from Washington it will be worse than I can imagine.

On another note get ready to pay again for other peoples mistakes.

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2010/08/05/an-august-surpris…

Chris the problem with single payer is that its not profitable and therefore r and D is not invested in and medical advancement stalls.

No single payer system is as patient centric as the US system was before Obamacare.

The sheer number of nut jobs who vote on these online polls on TheBatavian is staggering. More than 50% percent of the people who voted in today’s poll don’t think our President has the right to hold his office. Fox News does rot the brain.

Charlie,
You might be right, but you have to wonder why Obama doesn't just put this whole thing to rest and show his birth certificate? On the other hand, maybe he likes the distraction it has from some of his other policies.

Just off the top of my head Peter,

I am not allowed to marry the person I am in love with

I am not allowed to serve openly in thr US military .

And, O care is basicly the same program that Mitt Romney did in Mass!

John, political debate has turned ugly and unhealthy for our democracy. This was all started by the Republican witch hunt of Bill Clinton and then taken to another low by the Democrat attacks on Bush. I can only see this escalating and the nut jobs on both sides drowning out the middles of both of their parties.

How did he travel to Pakistan when US citizens were not allowed to? What passport did he use?

Why is the result of this poll not surprising. As I am constantly told, this is GOP; Conservative; Tea Party country. Anything to do with Obama or the Democrats has to be bad.
When I was moderating chat rooms, I never knew where the nuts, who came into the news rooms, lived. Some of them were so off the chart that it was darn scary. I'd be in the grocery store and look at people and wonder if they were one of them. Many of the people, on this site, who are into the rumor mongering about Obama are the same ones who religiously keep Fox on all day long.

You have the same right as me to marry someone of the opposite sex, and the federal government does not have the authority to deal with marriage via the 10th amendment.

Who said I supported Romney care? News Flash its bankrupting companies in Mass.

Personally I don't think the military should have to deal with trying to integrate gays and lesbians into their system. It is not the place for social experimentation.

You know who else can't serve? people who don't medically qualify. Should we allow them? They have regulations for a reason and sorry gays serving is a distraction that is not needed.

Bea, it’s surprising because I can see an all out fight against the liberal policies but, an attack on the man takes this to a whole new level. This is hidden racism. They don’t want to follow a black man so, they manufactured an argument that racists will be able to accept. They say, “See the black man with the funny name, he isn’t even one of us”, “He has stolen our country from us”.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2010 - 11:21am
How did he travel to Pakistan when US citizens were not allowed to? What passport did he use?

-Hillary Clinton went to Pakistan...is she not a citizen either?

He travel there in 1981 when US citizens were not allowed to.

I will no longer respond to ignorant haters...clearly these people are incapable of thinkingfor themselves. Very obvious by the "buzz words" in Peters post.

Those words came straight from the religous right's AFA, Focus on the Family, NOM, web sites. These people are haters and need to be purged from the Republican Party before they destroy this country!

I always did think "Barry Soetoro" was a funny name.

I voted "yes" to the poll question: Do you believe Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen?
I have to believe that my country and government is advanced enough to ensure no non-citizen gets elected as president. He won the election so enough people believed he was a citizen right ?

"Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2010 - 11:21am
How did he travel to Pakistan when US citizens were not allowed to? What passport did he use?"

The same way people travel to Cuba.... you go to another country without those restrictions first, and travel from there. It isn't exactly rocket science...

Julie,
I am not religious, nor am I a hater. I have a few friends who are gay.

I served and the one instance I had dealing with an openly gay lesbian created a hassle for everyone around and amazingly she was not removed from service.

Also Julie,

I would need to visit those sites in order to know what they are saying. What I wrote was based on my own experience in the Navy. Can't deal with that? Then too bad I don't care.

I have better things to do then deal with someone with a gay rights (which is really hetero discrimination) agenda.

And for the record Marriage is a religious institution, not a government institution and it should be returned to that in all situations involving the law.

Charlie,
Actually, I the personal attacks started with John Adams (there is some merit to saying it started with Washington), and was at its worse with Abraham Lincoln.

But still, just to put this to rest and make his opponents look stupid, why not just show the damn certificate and be done with it?

The birth certificate has been shown John. Chris Matthews waved it in the face of the birther king (whose name escapes me at the moment.)

Peter, 'hetero-discrimination'... I'm just gonna let that one stand on its own.

John, Chris is right. The birth certificate is a done deal.

Wow. you people really need to go back to High School. Yes he's is a natural citizen of the United States. First Google his name. Second Wikipedia his name. Third his Birthday is August 4 1961 go to the state of Hawaii using microfilm, and look for his name and under births. These will give you the Answer your looking for.
If that's not proof enough, call the FBI, and ask for the information you need.

Jason, the birthers won't knock this crap off until the President personally shows up at their houses with a notarized copy of his birth certificate. They're all nuttier than Aunt Gertrude's fruit cake.

I love how a birth certificate keeps getting brought up, as if it is the end-all be-all of citizenship. It just shows how naive people are. He has shown his certificate of live birth, and the conservative Republican governor of Hawaii has affirmed its validity, and both RNC and DNC had the time to vet him before he was nominated for election.

To add to that, not everyone has that piece of paper. I work with a lady whose grandmother was born to sharecroppers in the middle of a field in Louisiana. The first paper record of her existance is from school registration for 1st grade, and she only attended until 3rd. Is she not a citizen? She did have a lengthier process of affirming her citizenship to obtain a passport so she could go play Bingo in Canada with the new border-crossing rules, but it was still simple and straight-forward. And nobody ever questioned her citizenship.

Charlie,
Chris Matthews waving something around is not nearly the same as Obama, or a member of his White House staff, like Gibbs, showing it. That's one reason this thing keeps coming back up, when it could be put to rest by Obama.

Personally, I think the incident with the LTC, who seems to be pushing the "birth" issue, will be fun to watch play out.

John, name a single President who was ever asked to personally show his birth certificate. Obama's eligibility to be President is not in doubt just because a few rejects from the cuckoo's nest say it is. He went through the same process as every man and woman who ran for the office before him.

My son has an ammended birth certificate because a nurse changed his sex from male to female when we named him Kelly. Ignorance knows no bounds. If he were to run for public office the teabaggers would be screaming that he had a sex change operation.
The Daily Kos (my favorite liberal internet rag) polled several times on the birther question and came up with 41% birthers nationwide. Fox News and the Republican Party screamed lie lie! Little did I know they meant it was 10% more than reported. And remember when Cheney lied about his state of residence when both Bush and he lived in Texas? Suddenly he moved to his vacation property in Wyoming. I haven't forgotten.
Can you imagine the world we would live in today if the cranky old grandpa and his idiot sidekick had been elected? I shudder at the thought of bread lines. We would be in a full scale flat out depression now. I have no doubt at all.

Chris,
I believe it was president Arthur, but not too sure without going back and looking, who was also accused of not being a natural born citizen. But this is not the first incident. The difference is we have the ability to keep the story going like we are today.

And, I am not saying he is not a citizen. I just don't see why he doesn't end this after all this time.

I hope they court martial the LTC. He'll demand the proof, that will be the end of it, and the LTC will be found guilty.

He has ended it John. Chris Matthews wasn't waving 'something' around, he was waving the GOD DAMNED birth certificate. Accept it and move on with your life.

Birthers are stupid, crazy and incapable of rational thought. Don't be one of them.

Chris,
Now you're down to name calling, because you say an MSNBC guy showed the definitive proof, rather than an official of the administration?

You're now as bad as the Birthers you attack.

Chris,
Obama is spending millions keeping the issue out of court. That is suspicious. I want a definitive answer once and for all. Too many things have been said for me to take him at word of mouth and on a certificate of live birth. IF a trial shows he is fine then I will be satisfied. If not then we have a whole new mess on our hands removing everything he's signed from law. But how can we get the money back that he would then have illegally spent?

Its a horrible nightmare and one we probably won't see even if the senate and house are taken with veto proof majorities.

John, the administration doesn't have to show it.

Fair enough. I don't think John Roach is a citizen of the United States. Any proof that he provides disputing my claim will be invalid because he's obviously forged all of his documents. I demand that he be arrested immediately and held at the federal detention center until we can determine his country of origin at which time he should be deported.

Sound crazy? That's because it is.

Peter, you're a birther. See my definitions above.

John, there is no way in hell I believe you support this stupid cause so, I'm not going to respond. You like to debate, I get it.

John, it was Chester A. Arthur and the circumstances in that instance emit the same reek of bullshit and politics as the ones we're dialing with now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_A._Arthur

There has long been speculation that the future president was actually born in Canada and that the family moved to Fairfield later. If Arthur had been born in Canada, some believe that he would not have been a natural-born citizen (interpreting the law to mean that to be a natural-born citizen one must be born on U.S. territory) and would thus have been constitutionally ineligible to serve as vice president or president. During the 1880 U.S. presidential election a New York attorney, Arthur P. Hinman, was hired to explore rumors of Arthur's foreign birth. Hinman alleged that Arthur was born in Ireland and did not come to the United States until he was fourteen years old. When that story failed to take root Hinman came forth with a new story that Arthur was born in Canada. This claim also fell on deaf ears.[2]:202–203

Howard,
I believe that Obama is a citizen. I never said otherwise.

I don't accept some MSNBC guy waiving a paper around. That begs the question, why not give it to ABC,CBS, etc. I'd rahter Gibbs show it.

Chris,
You need a nap.
And the point on President Arthur was to show you this is not the first time this charge has come up as you make it sound, sort of a history lesson.

My big problem over Obama not ending this is how the military has responded. That's why I hope the LTC is court marshaled.

John, when you try to lend credence to this sort of nonsense you become part of the problem. I have no patience for this sort of thing and I will do whatever is necessary to stomp out the stupidity before it has a chance to breed.

I believe Obama wasn't even born. Obama is Jesus the son of God....he gave me bout 8k to buy a new house, I gave him an old car and he gave me a new car, he's gonna pay for my brain surgery, he's kickin Allah's a$$ in Afganerstan, and I keep gettin checks in the mail and don't have to work. Thats right thank you Barrocka Obama Jesus.

I voted yes, also. I've read all the posts. I'm amazed that the birthers are still at it. EEEEEKKKKKK! All anyone has to do is request Obama's birth certificate from WHATEVER COUNTRY WHERE THEY THINK HE WAS BORN. WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TO PROVE HE'S A NATURALLY BORN CITIZEN? WHY DON'T THE BIRTHERS PROVE HE ISN'T???

Hawaii has issued numerous birth certificates for Obama. They finally quit because the requests were bogging down their Dept. of Vital Statistics.

Julie Pappalardo, someday soon the injustices you speak of will be corrected. In the meantime, I'm sorry you have to put up with mean spirited remarks.

<a href="http://s598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/ccharvella/?action=view&current…; target="_blank"><img src="http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/ccharvella/obama-birth-certific…; border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Now can we return all the inmates to the asylum?

Most of the commenters just couldn't wait to don their tinfoil hats.

Anyway, after reading this all day I've decided that it's obvious that the Trilateral Commission forged President Obama's birth certificate. Their evil plan is simple: They put him in power so he can realize his true potential as the anti-christ and bring about the end of days. Obama will have a final showdown with MillerJesus (from this thread http://thebatavian.com/blogs/howard-owens/photo-sign-end-times/18890#co…) The Sabres, with MillerJesus on their side will win the Stanley Cup and we'll all go to heaven. The end.

<a href="http://s598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/ccharvella/?action=view&current…; target="_blank"><img src="http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt65/ccharvella/JesusMiller.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Chris, OUCH ! Stepped on quite a few toes there. Hope you don't plan on running for any political office soon.

The 22 people who voted "no opinion" scare me.......

Then why didn't the guy produce it when first asked about it like you or I would've??

Take me to your leader. Introducing, Orly Taitz, the queen of the "birther" movement.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zdqo9HPP-kU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><pa… name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zdqo9HPP-kU&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

That is one crazy tin foil hatter.

Gabor, do you really want to vote for some idiot who won't tell you what he's thinking? Chris has backbone and that's more than I can say for 99% of people in elected office.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity'>T… Born Identity</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:239148&#0…; width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

My buddy Richard wrote: "I gave him an old car and he gave me a new car" (now it's me) for $9,999 tt&l included. A brand new Korean car that gets 32 mpg and has a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper free warranty. It's the absolute 100% truth. Thank you President Obama, my old beater was totally shot but I was still driving it and had kept it legal the whole time I owned it. Otherwise the deal couldn't go down. Thank you again President Obama, my wife loves her new car. I love my bicycle, please don't steal it.

"More than 70 comments -- guess it wasn't such a dumb poll question after all."
I thought it was dumb until I saw 50% birthers instead of the 5-10% I was expecting. I guess birds of a feather really do flock together, no wonder y'all can't get rid of the gulls. Fox News must have a 55% share in Badtavia.

I just had to get a certified copy of my birth certificate so I could get an enhanced driver's license. It has hardly any information on it. My original one, had my name, date of birth and my parents names handwritten in. According to "The Lost Gabor Sister" (Too funny) my citizenship is now suspect. Stick to tooth, legal, real estate issues Orly. (isn't that an airport?)

Charlie, I just think that poking fun at any religion when it comes to politics can be a loss of votes. I don't have anything against Chris, besides him being a politician (lol). A strong back bone with a good set of balls will only get you so far, listen to me tell you what you already know.

Gabor, it's pretty obvious that most people do vote for idiots who don't rock the boat. So, there's little doubt your right. These are the same people who don't want to believe the president is American.

Charlie, I rarely get the chance to vote for someone I want, so I usually vote for the idiot I think might be the best for the job.

Speaking of idiots. Howard, ask how many of your readers would vote for Sarah Palin as President and Rick Perry as Vice President if the election were held tomorrow. I'm scared already. My wife believes it is a possibility, but I keep telling her she has lost all faith in humanity and she watches too damn much Fox News.
I think Badtavia may be one of those outliers pollsters sometimes talk about, and Rassmussen seeks out.

806 votes and 51% no....

batavia is scaring me now....

It's funny, George. Those led blindly political figures and not willing to look at the reasonable questions on his birthplace, use of foreign passports, and unknown school funding sources are overwelmingly liberal and niave.......

Jason, wikipedia and googling are anything BUT reliable sources of legit info.

And why has he spent hundreds of thousands on lawyers covering his use of foreign passports?

Sorry, Chris. There is no certified copy of his birth certificate, only a Record of Birth filed in Hawaii based on info provided by his mother (never verified info) long after his birth.

Chris, I do not considermyself a "birther". I do, however, take offense at being called an idiot and crazy just because I, unlike you, refuse to be led around by the nose by a liberal and corrupt regime. I am exercising my God given right to question - and further investigate - allegations regarding OUR president. You are obviously ignorant of the questions raised, why they are being raised, and obama's very expensive legal battle to avoid answering those questions.

Life must be blissful with your head buried so deeply in the sand(or elsewhere).

To Bill Bogan
Not only scary but disappointing.
After reading this thread and looking at the vote, it seems that there are too many people mesmerized by the talking heads on Fox and the extreme right wing radio talk shows.

The extreme right wing as you call it is what the nation was founded on, not your sides socialist agenda. But of course I am sure you haven't read the federalist papers so you wouldn't know that.

Mr. Harker, my daughter was born on December 8th 2008. Two days after that my wife and I filled out a form that provided all of the relevant information about her birth including the time/date, our citizenship status etc... and mailed it off. That's how you get a birth certificate and it's the same process Barack Obama's mother went through.

Are you saying my daughter's citizenship is suspect? Call the cops, my kid may be a Kenyan!

Look at the dates on the Certificate I provided a picture of. Are you telling me that it's a forgery? If you are then you're a conspiracy theorist.

I'll repeat once again, just in case any of you thought I might back off: Birthers are stupid and crazy.

If I ever run for office again and you ask me, 'Hey Chris, what do you think about the birthers?' I'll reply, 'Birthers are stupid and crazy.'

Peter said "But of course I am sure you haven't read the federalist papers so you wouldn't know that."
I can't speak for everyone, but I have read the Federalist Papers. I found them to be the most boring collection of anonymous guest editorials I've ever been forced to read. They make the dribble that comes out of George Will and Charles Krauthammer seem entertaining, by comparison. Of course, I think they suck too.

On a different note, I had never had a birth certificate in my possession (mom must have lost it) until it was required for me to retire. I filled out the papers and mailed a check to Albany and six weeks later I was finally an official citizen of the USA. Birthers would never accept the piece of paper NYS sent me, as being legitimate, but their opinion means nothing and my retirement check means a lot.

Bea,
You're making thing up again.

No FOX news newscaster, or even Glenn Beck, have said that Obama is not a citizen. In fact, Beck has said Obama is.

There are enough people out there saying this stupid Birther stuff, you don't have to make things up.

Chris,
Using Chris Matthews, from MSNBC, as showing proof that there is a document, was not your finest moment. Remember Dan Rather, much more credible than Matthews (in my opinion), who had that forged military document? That was shown around and declared proof positive, even after it was shown to be forged.

Chris, why you just don't point out that Obama's birth was listed in the local paper in 1961, and backs up everything you have said?

George,
I have read the Federalist Papers also. And while a bit boring, they show how hard it was to get everyone on board for the Constitution and the debates that were going on.

I don't need to John, other people have mentioned that and it receives the same birther response as the actual birth certificate that I posted yesterday.

You see, this isn't a debate. You can't debate crazy people and I won't pretend to. I won't validate their conspiracy theory by pretending it has merit.

Chris,
Actually, you have been debating since yesterday.

John,
You like to get in the last word, even if it is wrong.
Where in this post did I make anything up?
Posted by Bea McManis on August 6, 2010 - 7:02am
To Bill Bogan
Not only scary but disappointing.
After reading this thread and looking at the vote, it seems that there are too many people mesmerized by the talking heads on Fox and the extreme right wing radio talk shows.

Bea,
You clearly were trying to tie FOX news to the Birthers. That is made up.

The statement that the president' mother was not a US citizen is false, a downright & deliberate lie. Has Mr. O'Brien no conscience? He does not seem to have a clue as to what the laws of the USA are regarding citizenship. Too bad he hasn't taken the time to check his facts. It appears he may have "stuffed the ballot box" on this poll since it seems impossible that there are that many misinformed "birthers" among the readers of THE BATAVIAN. Given the fact that for his photo on his profile he has posted a picture of our president doctored to appear dressed in a Nazi uniform, speaks loads about his objectivity & how qualified he is to speak on this issue.

John, debate requires that both parties recognize the other's point as valid. The two sides must provide facts to back up their opinions and then the merits of those opinions can be discussed.

The case for this issue is different. One side has provided facts and the other side is stupid and crazy.

Chris,
The other side probably is saying the same about you.

Debate does not require either side to recognize the validity of the other sides position. Abortion or the existence of God would be a great examples of that.

But debate does, as you point, out require both sides to give what they see as facts. But the "facts" are many times the subject of the debate.

John, debate requires both sides to recognize that the other's position is defensible and therefore valid. The birther's position isn't defensible because it's based in the land of make-believe.

If you like we can make up a new game. We'll call it Birther Logic. I'll state something as fact and I'll make you prove me wrong.

Let's start with this: It is my opinion that unicorns exist.

I'll use birther logic to defend my position and you can use actual facts. Ready go!

Chris,
Do you need a nap again? I already told you that I believe Obama is a citizen. I considered the question of "debate", that you brought up, separate from the Birther issue.

And I can see where you would believe in unicorns.

I agree with Phil. There is no way Obama was going to fool everyone on this. If he was not a citizen, Hillary or Bill Clinton would have pointed it out. And does anyone think the RNC would not have exposed it also?

Howard,
I was not making a comparison of the Birther question to abortion or God.

I was commenting on Chris saying that for a debate, you have to consider the other person's point vailid and using them as an example of where one side will usually not consider the other side valid.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear at first.

John, if you believe that Obama is a citizen then join me in saying that the birthers are crazy to continue their arguments.

If you just want to argue semantics with me then find something better to do. I don't have any patience for people who simply want to be a pain in the ass.

Chris,
I don't mind saying that people continuing their "Birther" arguments is crazy or that the argument itself is crazy.

I just don't think you should call the group as a whole "stupid" or crazy.

Sorry, my man, but they're both.

When did I say his mother was not a citizen?

I didn't

And the picture is because he is a socialist and the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker's Party. Obama is gathering his "brown shirts" with his desire to build a National Civilian Security Force (his words not mine) with as much power as the military. See the 250,000 person "volunteer" force in the Give Act.

There is a bigger concern here, If unicorns existed they would all be illegal aliens.Even if they were natural born, they wouldn't have a birth certificate.

Phil, please tell your daughter the unicorn has to go!

Peter, the National Socialist Party members were fascists. Nomenclature aside, their ideals were on opposite sides of the political spectrum from actual socialists.

That's it, now we need to go round up all the unicorns and deport them back to fairy-land. Then, of course, we'll need to build a magic fence to keep them out.

Phil, do you think I'm stupid? I'm not going to accept a birth certificate from a mall!

Does it have a raised seal? Has the governor signed this document?

I'll accept any unicorn-related birth certificate...as long as it's written in crayon.

Absolutely, make sure Horsy has a social security number so we can get you that credit.

This is quite comical reading all these comments since obliviously many of you do not know the whole story. Did Congress decide to do an investigation because they "felt the pressure" from the American people? No, they did it because they had their own doubts. When Obmama's mother was interviewed way back when, She seriously couldn't remember which hospital in Honolulu(theres two)he had been born it. Besides that, what credibility does a man have who calls himself black, but has a white mother? My math says he's only half black which makes him Mulatto. What's the matter, isn't he proud to be who he is? Whoever voted for this man certainly deserves what they have coming to them I.M.H.O. And believe me, it's coming......

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. We spent some time discussing how folks who were adults in the late 50's and early 60's have a tendency to not realize when they're being offensive when it comes to racial issues, mainly because certain ideas and terms that were considered acceptable then are not considered acceptable today.

Mr Guentner, please tell me you were an adult during the late 50's and early 60's.

Posted by John Roach on August 6, 2010 - 11:30am
Bea,
You clearly were trying to tie FOX news to the Birthers. That is made up.

Clearly, I wasn't.
I was commenting on the fact that many of the lunatic fringe that steadfastly listen and accept anything told them by the talking heads on Fox or extreme right wing talk radio will spew it out as the "word of God" the next day. Doesn't matter what the topic or how invalid the information.

Bea,
While I think your attempt to make the FOX - Brither link was very clear, we won't agree on your intention.

It is a bit disappointing that you seem to have left out the lunatic fringe that steadfastly listen and accept anything told them on MSNBC or left wing radio (eg. WKBW 1520 AM). Seems a bit one sided of you.

mullato–noun
1.
the offspring of one white parent and one black parent: not in technical use.
2.
a person whose ancestry is a mixture of Negro and Caucasian.
–adjective
3.
of a light-brown color.

I find his use of the word appropriate. I see nothing in it's definition to view it as offensive or crude. There is even a website I came across www.mulatto.org. where it's participants identify with who they are, and share positive conversation.

I don't see the point of bringing up race. What difference does it make whether he calls himself black or orange or green? If anti-Obamaites want to be taken seriously, then drop the race card. It doesn't help. As for this ridiculous citizenship argument, ask yourselves what another commenter asked above: Don't you think the Clintons would most surely have dug this up around the time he dared to challenge Hillary for the job that she believes is rightfully hers? They are not known for taking the high road or giving anyone the benefit of a doubt. She probably still throws darts at his picture. Personally,to me Bill, Hillary, W, Old man Bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, Johnson and Obama all suck. I kinda liked Jerry Ford.

John figures if he can keep everyone's attention to this thread, no one will read:
http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/billie-owens/assembly-candidate-barons…

I have not seen one shred of proof from the "birthers" that Obama was born anywhere else than Hawaii. Proof is easy to get. Just write to the Bureau of Vital Statistics in any country and get it.

One time, a neighbor claimed that we were encroaching on their property. The Darien Town Board required us to get a survey to proove we were not. The results were that the neighbor's driveway was 1/2 on our property. Yet WE had to pay!

Last time I mentioned this to the birthers, I was ignored. Par for the course for irrational, lazy people who THINK, therefore IT IS! [Add that to stupid and crazy!] OK that's name calling, but there has been plenty of that here lately.

I'm not going to get sucked into any more debate on this issue unless one of the "NO" voters provides proof that Obama is not a US citizen.

"Mr Guentner, please tell me you were an adult during the late 50's and early 60's."
Chris, he didn't have to be if his parents and grandparent's were. I was born in the early fifties and I only knew of, or even saw, a dozen or so black people in my life until I was a teenager. When the Flying Burrito Brother's second album came out I had no idea what a burrito was, I thought it was a picture of pig flesh or something. Batavia is changing and the white people are resisting with all of their might. Sorry dudes, you can't stop progress and change, I could have told you that. We are all in this mess together and you better get used to it. It's not called Socialism it's called life. Either you love it or you hate it. I chose love it, even when I hate parts of it.

Anyone want an Oreo cookie and a glass of milk?

Bea,
There you go again, making things up. It's getting to be a habit with you.

Charvella, you are a moron. Howard, before you delete this, consider his comments directed at any thinking person that has an opposing viewpoint.

1.) You offer as "indesputible fact" an image off the web. Are you really that desperate to try to be right?

2.) You ignored my question regarding obama's travels to the Sudan while travel to that country was banned to holders of US passports.

3.) Your bias also prevents you from recognizing that your messiah is spending hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping these questions, and others, from being answered to the American people.

Am I a "birther"? Absolutely not. Was he born here? I don't know, and he refuses to answer questions about it. That is what bothers me.

This will be the last time I address you, so don't bother replying with your typical blather. At first your ignorance annoyed me. Now you simply amuse me.

I can't believe that if you want to be president that you don't have to show a birth certificate ..I have been asked to show my birth certificate for many things..Getting married..When i went school my mother had to show it..When my son played little league football had to produce one..to get a passport had to show one..How do you run for president and not produce one..
And why do these liberal Democrats keep blaming Fox News and the Republicans for all the ill's of the world when they are the ones in power..

Now I know why I never had a copy of my birth certificate, my mom didn't lose it, my younger brother was using it to buy beer and he never put it back where it belonged. If you don't want to believe Obama, no one can make you believe, but don't get mad when I believe in a brown skinned Muslim God, if I ever do believe in a God again.
Badtavia, shame on y'all whackjobs. I still love you'se guys though. Just like Richard Gahag-gag-gag-han does, but he's not honest enough to say so. He doesn't like me, but I like cyber him, can you tell? Howard this was a great social experiment that is only now burning down. Are you scared too? It says you have more work to do, a hell of a lot more. I feel for you dude.

Bob.....please add a #4. No one had offered proof from another country where Obama was supposedly born.

A few weeks ago I was out collecting designating petition signatures. I knocked on the door of an elderly woman who I've secured many signatures from over the years. She met me at the door and proclaimed that she was no longer a Democrat. I gently challenged her by showing her my walk sheet that clearly showed her in the Democratic Party. She then told me that she isn't changing parties officially -- that she was much too old for that -- but then proceeded to tell me, unfiltered and with the rawest of honesty and emotion that "until that nigger is out of office I can no longer support the Democratic Party".

This is what this is all about, folks, no matter how anyone tries to sugar coat it. This 80+ year old woman wasn't about to gently dance around it like so many try to. Instead of the usual politically correct dance of subtle racism that any of us paying attention can observe -- words like "Mulatto" used in an argument that supposedly isn't driven by race, but in fact is exactly what it's about.

White people are obviously afraid.

The "birther" movement gives many arm chair racists a conspiracy to wrap themselves around (as crazy as it is) to de-legitimatize the president without saying what they really think. Which is more likely aligned with the words that the woman at the door expressed.

A couple years ago I actually thought we were heading into a post racial period.

Sad.

What is sad Lorie is that you just lumped every white person who doesn't agree with President Obama or those white people who have an opinion that he is not a natural born citizen in to a group and labeled them all racist.
Before you go putting words in my mouth Lorie, I do believe that Mr. Obama is a citizen of the USA. I however do not like him as a politician. This does not make me a racist. This makes me an American with an opinion. I lost faith in his message of change when he picked an old time Washington insider as his vice president. It's almost like the Democratic establishment didn't have 100% faith in Mr. Obama.
In regard to the 80 year old woman, it is wrong of you to use her opinion to label others. She was born and raised in a different era than most people on this website here.
Her opinion's on race are most likely going to differ from most people born after 1970. She may very well be a racist. But that doesn't make her neighbor a racist if they do not like the President because they feel he failed in someway on a campaign promise.

Shame on you Lorie for you stereotypical judgments.

The question of Obama traveling was addressed earlier on page 1.

Tony Ferrando said ""Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 5, 2010 - 11:21am
How did he travel to Pakistan when US citizens were not allowed to? What passport did he use?"

The same way people travel to Cuba.... you go to another country without those restrictions first, and travel from there. It isn't exactly rocket science... "

Jeremiah, you can hate the man's polices and tell us he is destroying the country all you want. This is a free country and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. You could even tell us how you don't like him, how he looks, talks or dresses. Nothing wrong with that either.

This birther argument is seperate and is exactly what Lorie said, racist. It is a fake argument meant to appeal to racists. It's a delusion created by people who can't believe that the "white man's" country is run by a black man. Not only is a black man president but, most white people voted for him as well. This is ground shaking for Klan types so, they need a conspiracy.

Racist=Birther

That's the hard cold truth. People who believe this should take a long look at themselves.

Leave it up there Howard. You're correct, I'm a big boy and I'm also pretty sure that I'm not a moron. Of course, my definition of 'moron' may differ from Mr. Harker's. For example, I think a person is not a moron if they can read a birth certificate provided by the state of Hawaii's DoVS and understand that it is proof that a person was born in Hawaii.

Those who distrust their ability to swim and sense bottomlessness- panic. They gravitate to distressed voices. The voices offer no rescue; only the comfort of drowning, satisfied as to where the blame lies.

Jeremiah, you are awfully defensive. You obviously voted with me on the poll question(in the 36% minority), so we're on the same page here, right? No need for me to put any words in your mouth because we agree according to your statements.

This isn't about policy. The question is about legitimacy.

I try not to use a broad brush(only for blocking in backgrounds). If people believe -- and many do according to the poll -- the conspiracy theory after it has been definitively and factually proven otherwise there is obviously another underlying reason that keeps fanning the conspiracy flames.

A good conspiracy can be very entertaining. This one has all the right ingredients -- the lines of truth are blurred or eliminated, super secret documentation, international intrigue, add the bat shit crazy leader for entertainment value, goal posts are moved as theories are debunked, and the most important ingredient of all a fearful racist subset of citizens angry that the black man is president.

Howard, there really is no such thing as gravity.

The earth just sucks..... :)

I was born in 1961 to answer the question. MOST of you seem like intelligent people who are engauged in this topic. Please do yourselves a favor & read Obama's book. Then, come back & tell me you still feel the same. This isn't about the color of someone's skin - it's about their upbringing, loyalties, & agendas. As the saying goes,"a lepord can't change his spots". To those of you wearing blinders, the nation of Islam is slowing taking over the world. Doubt it? Google it.............

Charlie,
I think your wrong. While some "Btrthers" may be racists, I think most are like many who are into conspiracy theories. Birthers are like the ones who think 9/11 was an inside job, we never landed on the moon, the secret codes on highway signs for the invasion.

Get out the Reynolds Wrap we're recycling old conspiracies now. (comment is for Tom in response to his Islam statement}

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5-ZepMbvMPsUF1Ur5t9ZDw?feat=embedw… src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MJIcEwu6Cfg/TF2g_4-LFMI/AAAAAAAACZM/YO3Az7lJwWQ/s…; /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Lorie.Longhany/20100804?feat=embedwebsite">…;

Lorie,
The point is the Birtheres are not new fade. Conspiracy theories are common in this country.

John,conspiracies still need to follow cause and effect. What caused the conspiracy theory that Obama is not legitimate in the first place? No one questioned other president's legitimacy, so there must be a plausible causal effect that is responsible for the outcome.

The reason for the 9-11 conspiracy theory was some of the circumstances that occurred. No, I don't adhere to any of that craziness either. The moon landing conspiracies are based on the flag not moving in the photos. Don't know about the secret codes on signs, but heard that if you listen to the Beatles White album backwards there all sorts of secret messages.

The CNN poll released on the President's birthday revealed that 27% believe that Obama is not legitimate. That's a lot of crazies. On Tuesday,Rush Limbaugh added fuel to the fire when he said "They tell us August 4th is the birthday. We haven't seen any proof of that!"

Lorie,
Both Chris and I have shown that you're wrong.

President Arthur was also accused of not being a citizen. In fact, Chris explained it very well. You might want to read what he wrote. You'll see that while this issue with Obama seems new, its just a new spin.

There has been and will be people who just love the idea of secret conspiracies.

Since your too lazy to look for yourself, I'll provide one of over 5 MILLION links on Google about the Islm topic.. http://www.themodernreligion.com/assault/rising.html Yeah, I know - it's the internet, so none of this info has any merit........LOL.......

Another conspiracy that floated around in the first half of the 20th century was that Catholics were stockpiling guns and ammunition in the basement of the churches and would one day rise up and take over the country!! I heard this when I was a kid. Suspicion and fear keeps our country divided, It is a very old and very well thought out design to keep the masses under control. Once it gets going, it's nearly impossible to eradicate.

By the way Howard, good poll question. I can't remember when people have been so riled up!

John, you are right about one thing. Those that doubt 9/11 have the same hate in their hearts for their fellow man that birthers do. I know a few Muslims who loved to talk to me about how 9/11 never happened or that the government and the Jews did it. They are both nice enough guys who I worked with for years. It came down to the fact that they really didn't like Christians or Jews. They weren't violent or would even treat a Christian poorly but, they had a bias. It was easy for them to buy into the 9/11 lie because it fit their emotional needs. The lie made them feel comfortable about their beliefs. It also was much easier to tell me the lie than what they really believed in their hearts.

John, Your theory only goes so far. There is always reason behind what people choose to believe. Birthers are no different than 9/11 doubters. Their is also no law against having a bias or being racist. Howard you are also right I'm sure not all birthers are racists, a few of them just like conspiracy theories.

Lorie, so anybody that disagrees with obama's liberal/progressive politics is a racist?

Wow. You're scary.

"words like "Mulatto" used in an argument that supposedly isn't driven by race, but in fact is exactly what it's about.

White people are obviously afraid."

Howard, I also think that's exactly what Lorie was saying with out directly saying it. Unlike the 80 year old woman, Lorie is tip toeing around it.
Lorie is not unlike a lot of Obama supporters. Thy feel that anyone who dislikes Obama or his policies is a racist first and foremost. Like Lorie said

"The "birther" movement gives many arm chair racists a conspiracy to wrap themselves around (as crazy as it is) to de-legitimatize the president without saying what they really think. Which is more likely aligned with the words that the woman at the door expressed.:The "birther" movement gives many arm chair racists a conspiracy to wrap themselves around (as crazy as it is) to de-legitimatize the president without saying what they really think. Which is more likely aligned with the words that the woman at the door expressed."

So as crazy as the birther hypothesis is, Lorie thinks they are just racist that don't have the balls to come out and say what they really mean.

Upstate NY is surprisingly like the deep south. This is part of the reason that most of the young people that get a college degree leave the area to go elsewhere.

Also, this:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorize…

Frank, I recognize the basis of your argument. I was born in the early 50s... My parents fled Rochester- part of the post-war suburban exodus. They looked back and bemoaned city decay; blaming not the landlords who partitioned their former homes, not the businesses that relocated to Greece and West Henrietta and certainly not urban employers who defended their right to racist hiring practices.

I remember migrant laborers of the 60s and what the labor camps were called. I remember the sole Black-kid in our class, who sat in the back corner and never uttered a word. As do I recall the casual acceptance- that he would leave mid-year to move back-south. I also recall wondering how Henry (his name) felt when our History teacher launched into a tirade against Malcolm X and the impending Black revolution.

I remember hearing "after all we've done for them," when Rochester erupted in violence during the Summer of 1964.

I remember car doors latching when passing the demarcation of Bull's Head. ...Being warned, "Don't eyeball any of 'them;' they'll knife you."

When interracial dating challenged taboo, there were discussions as to the irreversible damage done the (white female). Coat-checkers described the area where Blacks' clothing was set apart. Barbers explained the physiological impossibility of cutting non-whites' hair. Rock and Roll was labeled Jungle Music. TVs shut off when Sheriff Bull Connor turned on the fire hoses.

I like to believe, along with most, that those days are behind us. ...Granted the random reminder that racism remains blares out against complacent assumptions. I believe we have made progress- in no way an apology for counter indications. I say that, still stinging after being called a N*****-lover when twenty years ago I defended something that Jesse Jackson said.

Pop culture has been pointing up the schizophrenic nature of our racism since Dixieland left the Port of New Orleans. One can evidence the current occupant of the Oval Office as an indicator of racial healing or cite the backlash as contrary. It's the glass half full, half empty paradox. How we react to residual racism is critical. Moving away is too easy.

Man, you guys better pull you heads out of the sand & realize big government is your enemy. They don't give a rats ass about you & me. Chew on this for a spell........http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-… Conspirosy - no, reality............

I'll be as gentle as possible, and even try to use small words so the morons who cannot accept the fact that a black man is President can understand:

- Hawaii became a state on August 21, 1959;
- President Obama was born in Hawaii;
- President Obama was born (again - IN Hawaii) on August 4, 1961.
- The State of Hawaii produced the same documentation to the world that they would for anybody born in Hawaii

He is a citizen of these United States of America.

And think about it (if it does not cause too much pain to actually THINK) - do you think the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, who was hand-picked by then President George W. Bush, would have sworn in somebody who was NOT qualified to be president?

You birthers have your heads so far up your butts that you are sneezing poop.

I am curious... How many folks would have questioned Senator McCain's citizenship? He, like President Obama, supplied documentation documenting his birth. In fact, Senator McCain had a legal team review the requirements for citizenship and conditions for a Presidential candidate. He did this due to HIS birth outside of the 50 US states (Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone).

I do recall reading blogs wondering about his eligibility, with any questions quickly resolved due to being born to a US citizen, and his being born in a US territory.

Because these people who question President Obama's citizenship were not vocal about questioning Senator McCain's citizenship, I am forced to believe that those who question President Obama's citizenship have other motives.

Motives such as:
1) Doing whatever they can to de-legitimize an elected official who was not their choice. In other words - attack "the enemy" using whatever means available, regardless fo the legal or ethical implications;
2) Their inability to accept that somebody that was "not like them" was elected President. The "thought" process involved is a complete denial that a black man could possibly be elected to the highest office in the nation, but if one of "them" is, then it must have been through subterfuge;
3) From a religious standpoint, christianists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianist) are appalled that a person that does not fall into their myopic mythological view is the country's leader. President Obama does have a parent that {gasp} was not a christian, and does have a middle name that does not fall into the standard historical christian fare. These religious fanatics frequently refer to the President as "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" in an effort to deny or belittle his christianity (listen to Michael Savage for examples of this). In christianists' view, President Obama is a muslim, and they cannot conceive of a muslim being born in the US.

None of the motives noted above are based on reality.

...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=254401.

"Former Hawaii elections clerk Tim Adams has now signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Barack Obama Jr. in Hawaii and that neither Queens Medical Center nor Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu had any record of Obama having been born in their medical facilities."

Do you have a long form, hospital generated birth certificate?

What is a long form, hospital generated birth certificate?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

It is comical that the racists and those who love conspiracy theories are hanging on to this two years into the President's term.

Bea,
Peter is too worried about who is cleaning snow off the Fire Department roof to think anything else through.

Bea read this article. Snopes and fact check are not objective either.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833

"So far, the only birth document available on Obama is a Hawaii Certification of Live Birth that first appeared on the Internet during the 2008 presidential campaign. It was posted by two purportedly independent websites that have displayed a strong partisan bias for Obama – Snopes.com released the COLB in June 2008, and FactCheck.org published photographs of the document in August 2008.

WND previously reported the Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the COLB posted on the Internet by Snopes.com and FactCheck.org."

Snopes is biased against bullshit.

John,
You are right. There is the snow on the fire hall and the concern over who is inspecting it. Then, of course the Rochester DA who should be exonerated and our own Chris who should be tied to the stake and burned. A lot on his plate.
If you went to city hall and asked for long form, hospital generated birth certificate I have a feeling they would look at you with a bit of alarm.
If you went to the hospital and asked for a long form, hospital generated birth certificate they would gived you a copy of the same one they handed over to your mother when you left the hospital.

Peter,
UFOs are real, the Air Force doesn't exist.

So your saying the hospital should have a record of him being there....well they don't.

lol. Chris.
I especially liked, "Snopes and fact check are not objective either."
Not objective EITHER. Tells you something about the wind link, doesn't it?

...

Bea,
I only wrote that because I'm sure thats what you think about WND but how about the Daily Mail?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Ob…

Conspiracies and racism go hand in hand. Whatever floats your boat. Put on the tin foil hat and continue to charge ahead. Intelligent people will certainly get out of your way as you make your way deeper into the garbage.

I'm only biased toward the proper usage of 'your' and 'you're.'

Quibbling over Obama's birth certificate midway through his term is a bit like checking George Foreman's USBA credentials while Michael Moorer sprawls at his feet.

C.M. It matters because it obviously wasn't found when it needed to be. It matters for the future.

I am not for dumping him out of office because of it (the mess it creates is too costly), just for not letting him run for a second term until the birth certificate is found.