Pro-business group says it likes Hawley's voting record

In all the years Mr.Hawley has been an assemblymen, I have never seen him knock on my door and ask me any questions. C.M.Barons came knocking the other day, and that means something to me.Yeah, it's great that Mr.Hawley is pro business, but it doesn't seem to do much for the unemployed in this area. I realize business creates jobs, but where are all the full time permanent jobs? Most businesses use temp to hire services these days, and when the temps reach the end of the probationary periods and become eligible for benefits and full time status, they are let go. These temp services should be outlawed.
I wonder how Mr.Hawley would score on a pro- unemployed
groups scorecard.

Unshackle Upstate is a Republican shill PAC. No surprises here.

The Genesee County Chamber of Commerce is listed as one of Unshackle Upstate's partners...are they a shill for Republicans?

Nationally? Yes.

I wasn't aware that the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce was a national organization. So, every business that is a member of the local GCCC is really supporting the national Republican agenda rather than local, non-partisan pro-business interests?

In reading through many of the "report cards", there are many democrats that scored higher than republicans. That seems to lend credibility to their bi-partisan claim.

The NFIB sends out faxes to members every election year a week before election day with a list of their preferred candidates. I have yet to see a Democrat on one of those lists.

I can't answer JoAnne's question about the GCCoC because, as far as I know, they don't endorse or grade candidates. The national CoC has long been known for what they really are, a group of ridiculously well-funded lobbyists for corporate America.

Chris,
Are you or your business,a member of the Chamber, either locally or nationally?

John, I don't own a business and why would you want to know?

Chris,
If the Chamber is a supporter or member of Unshackle Upstate, and if your a member of the Chamber, you have to love the irony of being a member of a group that indirectly supports the guy you are trying hard to unseat.

Chris, on what do you base your claim that Unshackle Upstate is a Republican shill PAC?

Since the GCCC is a partner of Unshackle Upstate, I would say that they DO grade candidates.

Because I can do basic math JoAnne, I went to public school after all.

John, you won't find any irony here because I don't own a business. Also the business I am employed by has operated for better than 52 years and has never been a member of the Chamber locally or nationally. This is also the last time that I'll allow you to discuss my livelihood; it holds no bearing on discussions about politics.

Well can you show your work, Chris? Because I don't know how being able to do basic math relates to this topic.

Partners of Unshackle Upstate
•Albany-Colonie Chamber of Commerce
•Amherst Chamber of Commerce
•Artizahn Dental Studio, Inc.
•Berkshire Properties, LLC
•Brighton Chamber of Commerce
•Brinkman International Group
•Buffalo Niagara Association of Realtors
•Buffalo Niagara Partnership
•Buffalo Rising
•Business Council of New York State
•Canandaigua Chamber of Commerce
•Cayuga County Chamber of Commerce
•Chamber of Commerce of Ulster County
•Chautauqua County Chamber of Commerce
•Chemung County Chamber of Commerce
•Chenango County Chamber of Commerce
•City of Auburn Mayor, Timothy C. Lattimore
•City of Utica
•Clinton Chamber of Commerce
•Corning Area Chamber of Commerce
•Cortland County Chamber of Commerce
•Delaware County Chamber of Commerce
•East Aurora Chamber of Commerce, Greater
•FindCNY.com
•Finger Lakes Radio Group
•Fulton County Regional Chamber of Commerce & Industry
•Genesee County Chamber of Commerce
•Geneva Chamber of Commerce
•Gore Mountain Region Chamber of Commerce
•Greater Binghamton Association of Realtors
•Greater Binghamton Chamber of Commerce
•Greater Buffalo Building Owners and Managers Association
•Greater Rochester Association of REALTORS®
•Greater Syracuse Association of REALTORS
•Greater Syracuse Chamber of Commerce
•Greater Watertown - Northcountry Chamber of Commerce
•Greece Chamber of Commerce
•Greene Technologies, Inc
•Hamburg Chamber of Commerce
•Hilton-Parma Chamber of Commerce
•Home Builders and Remodelers Association of Central New York
•Independent Insurance Agents & Brokers of New York, Inc.
•Iroquois Healthcare Alliance
•Johnson City Citizens for Affordability
•Junior Achievement of Central New York
•Lancaster Chamber of Commerce
•Leed Steel Co., Inc.
•Madison County Tourism Inc.
•Manufacturers Association of Central New York (MACNY)
•Mohawk Valley Chamber of Commerce
•Morrell Builders
•National Federation of Independent Business
•National Pipe & Plastics, Inc.
•New York Farm Bureau
•New York Workers' Compensation Action Network (NYCAN)
•NFIB
•Niagara Frontier Subcontractors Association
•Niagara USA Chamber of Commerce
•Orchard Park Chamber of Commerce
•Orleans County Chamber of Commerce
•Phelps Chamber of Commerce
•Plattsburgh-North Country Chamber of Commerce
•Printing Industries Alliance
•Rochester Automobile Dealers Association
•Rochester Business Alliance
•Rochester Downtown Development Corporation
•Rochester Home Builders Association
•Rochester Regional Veterans Business Council
•Rochester Young Professionals
•Schenectady County Chamber of Commerce
•Seneca County Chamber of Commerce
•Small Business Council of the Rochester Business Alliance
•Southern Tier Homebuilders and Remodelers Association
•St. Lawrence County Chamber of Commerce
•Support Services Alliance, Inc
•The Otsego County Chamber
•Tioga County Chamber of Commerce
•Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce
•Turnaround Management Association, Upstate New York Chapter
•Tuthill Lighting
•Upstate New York Tourism Alliance
•Victor Chamber of Commerce
•Webster Chamber of Commerce
•Webster Schools
•Wyoming County Chamber of Commerce
•Yates County Chamber of Commerce
•Yates County- Glenora Wine Cellars

http://unshackleupstate.com/partners/

Here you go JoAnne, the average score for Democratic Assemblymen is 4.21 out of a possible 100.
It's amazing that the unemployment rate in NY isn't at 96% eh? Shocking...

"John, you won't find any irony here because I don't own a business. Also the business I am employed by......"

You could probably make that argument if you were working for say; Hanson Aggregates or Boyle's Motor Sales, but you don't. Most folks know there's a little more to it than that so what's wrong with full disclosure?

Kevin,
Why is there a "little more to it"?
Working in a family business does not make one responsible for the choices those who own the business make.
What nefarious secret do you think Chris is keeping?
Many of us, at one time or another, have worked for relatives. It doesn't mean we had to subscribe to their politcal preferences, nor does it make our politcal choice suspect.
Chris stated that the business did not belong to the Chamber. That is a choice made by the owners of the business, and apparently made before Chris was a twinkle in his Mom's eyes. What point are you trying to make?

Chris,
Your employment has nothing to do with it. You slammed a group that is affiliated with a local group. Many businesses in this area belong to that group, and there was a better than even chance yours did.

Kevin, John wants to play gotcha with me and if he presses, he's going to lose. The reason I'm not discussing it is because it has no bearing on the matter at hand.

The answer to John's question is not the one he wants so we can leave it at that.

Chris’s political opinions have nothing to do with his family’s business. I’m sure the members of his family disagree politically just like all others. Also Chris isn’t representing his place of employment when he posts and I DO think where he works is off limits. If people are going to start pulling in where people work, Howard is going to end up with only posts from retired people.

Anyway, Steve Hawley is a nice guy and I believe he supports local business. Unfortunately for him, we are in a very precarious place statewide and I feel that drastic measures are needed, first is to replace EVERY member of the assembly and senate. If the baby goes out with the bath water, than so be it. Some will think my position illogical, but again drastic measures are called for.

Agreed, but you gotta start somewhere.

Chris, isn't it possible that the reason the Democratic majority didn't score well is because they didn't do a very good job supporting pro-business interests? When you look at the report card criteria, it is hard to make the argument that they are not who they say they are.

I have searched the internet trying to find one pro-business group, or any group, that disputes the claims of Unshackle Upstate; or at the very least, offers proof of their republican affiliation...I found only one:

http://fightthecuts.org/about-citizen-action-new-york

According to their website:

Citizen Action of New York is a grassroots membership organization taking on big issues that are at the center of transforming American society, like quality education, affordable health care, public funding of election campaigns, ending the War in Iraq, and fighting for social, racial, and economic justice.

We look for opportunities to accomplish big changes - not small, incremental reforms. We work to elect progressive candidates to office who are committed to these issues.

They are a member of this organization:
http://www.abetterchoiceforny.org/index.htm

According to their website:

A couple of State Actions that they support as a balanced response to the 2010-2011 NYS budget shortfall should include:

Curtailing growing obesity rates in NY children by adding a 1 cent per ounce tax on sugary beverages.

Ensuring that Reservation sales of cigarettes to non-Native Americans are properly taxed (by collecting those taxes before the products reach the reservations while still providing Native Americans with tax-free cigarettes).

One only has to read their list of supporters to know that they are not a pro-business organization.

CANY is a liberal shill PAC. You can't simply take the word of PAC's about any candidate. PAC's are, by definition, ridiculously biased against any person or party that doesn't support them 100%.

According to you, CANY is a liberal shill PAC...Unshackle Upstate is a Republican shill PAC...is there a Democratic shill PAC that has proof that Unshackle Upstate is wrong?

I'm more inclined to believe that a group consisting of local Chamber of Commerce organizations (not national) are more apt to be looking out for the best interests of small business...PAC or no PAC.

JoAnne, who cares if a PAC is a liberal or conservative shill? The point is if a business or a group contributes money to a political candidate or party, they expect more than "good government" in return. I can go along with CANY's public funding of election campaigns, but not much else they promote. Public funding of anything usually goes against my views, but we need to get the money out of the election process.

You're more inclined to believe any group that has nice things to say about Steve Hawley. Every time someone on this site suggests that he's anything other than spectacular you show up to defend him. That's all this is.

You can say the same thing about me in relation to Chris Barons. That's how this all works right?

Both candidates for Assembly have published ideas and viewpoints. I suggest all interested voters read and listen to what the candidates are writing and saying and make informed decisions based on reality rather than an arbitrary scoring system devised by a group with an agenda.

Chris,
That's why this site is so successful. We all get to express our opinion if we want.

and some of us come here to ensure that the bullshit isn't allowed to pile too high.

Good point Chris, and I noticed there wasn't a whole lot of opposition to what I said in my post. I'm sick and tired of business first, what about the voters? what about the unemployed, business is taking full advantage of the employment situation in this lousy economy.
These temp. agencies are sucking away full time jobs, and businesses are using them to fill positions without paying benefits and a decent wage.

Frank,
If you got your way and outlawed Temp agencies, do you think business would hire full time people, or lots of 20 hr ones?

Or would they not hire and just make do or find ways to automate even more than now?

Questions from UnshackleUpstate's Legislative Questionnaire:

UU Question 10. Would you oppose legislation similar to S. 2247-B/A. 1867-B that would amend Labor Law to establish unnecessary, bureaucratic and costly new requirements for farm employees? Yes No

S. 2247-B from nysenate.gov- To establish the Farmworkers Fair Labor practices Act to allow farm workers overtime, a day of rest, disability insurance, unemployment benefits, and other labor protections allowed to other workers in New York State.

UU Question 11. Would you oppose legislation similar to A.3659/S. 1241 that would impose costly and burdensome mandates on economic development projects financed by Industrial Development Agencies (IDAs)? Yes No

A.3659 Summation- This bill would offer protection to existing businesses from IDA-subsidized up-starts, identify conflicts of interest in the case of funding recipients, quantify project goals in terms of community benefit, establish criteria for measuring community impact and establish project motivation and value.

UU Question 12. Would you oppose legislation similar to S. 1730-B which seeks to allow "private citizens" to be brought in response to violations of the Environmental Conservation Laws, and enforce administrative or judicial orders under the state's inactive hazardous waste sit e remedial program? Yes No

S. 1730-B from nysenate.gov- The large number of violations of environmental laws, rules, regulations, permits, certificates and orders makes it impossible for the State to pursue timely enforcement actions in every instance where such actions may be necessary or appropriate. This bill provides injured parties with the right to seek enforcement through the courts in instances involving violations of those provisions of the ECL relating to protection of waters, water supply, water power, drainage, solid and hazardous waste, freshwater and tidal wetlands, pesticides and hazardous substances bulk storage. To avoid duplication of effort, the bill prohibits initiation of an enforcement action when a particular activity or condition constitutes a violation of the ECL if the Commissioner or the Attorney General is diligently prosecuting an administrative or judicial proceeding.

I don't think the temp agencies are the root of the problem. I'm pretty sure walmart is not using temp agencies to hire part time employees that don't qualify for benefits. This is one area I agree with you Howard. I think there needs to be more support for local business. That means people eating at mom an pop restaurants or locally owned franchise's. The Big Box stores are convenient but ultimately do have a negative affect on the local economy.

So C.M. according to Unshackle Upstate does Corporate Welfare = Pro-Business?

Dave, you'll have to ask Chris why he cares about PAC's, he's the one that brought them up as a way to discredit Unshackle Upstate. I could care less and I stated that in my post.

Chris, please show me where I showed up to defend Steve. I didn't mention his name.

My first reaction to this article was to do my homework. I had never heard of Unshackle Upstate. What I found was a group that is composed of area Chambers dedicated to promoting small business. They picked pro-business criteria (legislation, etc), which I read, and they used it as the basis for the report card.

My comments were directed toward your knee-jerk reaction to discredit the findings, not to praise Steve Hawley. Saying that it is just a Republican shill PAC just means that you really don't have any proof to dispute the findings, so let's just play the partisan card. It's no different than people that play the race card or racist card when they can't prove their point with facts.

I don't know about you, but I vote for the person I feel is the best for the job, regardless of party affiliation. Steve Hawley may be my friend, but he, like anyone else, has to earn my vote at election time.

Dave, I don't know enough about the folks behind UnshackleUpstate to be real analytical, but the manner in which they paraphrase legislation, one can be sure the intent is self-service. Google UnshackleUpstate Legislative Questionnaire, and you can get the whole document.

Dave,
The article was pro Hawley, so Chris did what was expected, he tried to discredit the group. If Chris had just ignored it, most people would not have paid that much attention or known anything about them.

C.M...."the manner in which they paraphrase legislation"?

You make it sound like the legislators taking the questionnaire don't have access to the actual legislation.

Maybe those they scored poorly didn't actually read the legislation before voting.

Actually I joined Unshackle Upstate on Facebook a month or so ago and get updates from them. They are very pro-corporate welfare. I don't believe tax breaks and bending of the rules for certain companies to build or expand helps the economy as a whole. If government would just stay out of business and let the.......wait for it......... free markets work....but no let's let a select few make a killing and the rest of us peons can go pound dirt if we refuse to believe we're being helped. Please Unshackle Upstate, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rain

So John, Howard, you don't beleive employers are taking advantage of a poor economy? Tell me some more stories.
I won't mention any by name, but what they do is promise a higher wage once you reach a predetermined number of worked calender days, and you then can become a "regular " employee. Problem is, you get laid off a day before you reach that date.Been there done that.

JoAnne, I cannot vouch for what other people access or don't access. There is a theory that if you set an infinite number of monkeys in front of a keyboard, one of them will produce Shakespeare. In the case of designing questions to match Senate/Assembly bills, I don't think any monkeys were involved.

Frank,
Even if you are right, is it their legal right? And because of a few business being unethical (hardly new since the 1700's) is it right to outlaw a whole class of business because of this?

Remember, it's not the temp agency, according to you, that's the problem, but the business that hires the temp worker and then lets them go.

And, besides not answering the question I put to you, what will you do with the people who worked for the temps after you take away their jobs?

A lot of IT development work is done with temp workers. Eliminating temp workers would put a bunch of my friends out of work. These are really good paying jobs by the way. Do to the short term nature of software development projects, a company would probably just rent space in a state that allows temps and do the work from there as well. Or just off shore the work…

John, seems apparent,I'm pro working man, you're pro business. Do these agencies work for free?,of course not.
When I was a union member, and part of the contract negiotiating team, all we ever heard from the companys was poverty, yet, instead of using their human resource people, they paid temp agencies, then wanted to institute drug testing, all this, and they offered what amounted to be an insult to those who broke their butts to make a profit for the company. Drug testing may be a necessity in some places of employment, but the cheapest way is reasonable suspicion, it doesn't cost a cent. You don't need to be the sharpest knife in the drawer to detect drug and alcohol use.

JoAnne, do you know what clawback provisions are? Unshackle Upstate hates them. Corporate welfare? Unshackle Upstate loves it. Workers? Not part of Unshackle's equation.

Unshackle Upstate isn't pro-business, they're pro-CEO and you better believe there's a difference.

John, to answer your question, if you take away the temps, the companies would either hire someone to fill the position,like they used to, before the spike in temp.agencies providing a cheap, benefit free employee pool. Or maybe they pack it in and move overseas, they have been doing that for years John, this way , they don't have to worry about safety, the environment, or their impact on the communities where they set up shop.
It's just another tool of corporate greed John, and doesn't it seem a little suspicious when these companies move overseas to produce cheaper products,the consumer never sees those savings at point of sale. It is greed driven John, plain and simple.

I started as a temp in my current job and got hired permanent because I proved my worth to the corporation. Many people here have done the same.

My father sold his share of Sal's Birdland and went to school and was hired as a temp and it worked wonderfully for him as well.

Temp jobs should not be abolished for any reason.

Charlie, don't be naive, I'm talking about jobs that are performed on a daily basis, where the work is needed year round and being filled by temps.

Peter, I'm not saying all temp services are scoundrels, I just find it ironic that as the economy fell apart, temp agencies surged.

Temp agencies were growing with the economy in the early 2000's its not a new trend.

They are doing better now than ever because businesses are afraid to hire permanent employees with this congress and president

Frank,

Temp agencies surged as people were losing their jobs.
They went to the temp agencies because that was easier than scouring the want ads. After food just doesn't appear magically in the fridge or on the stove.
Is the way that other companies utilize these temp agencies unethical? Yes it is. But what are you going to do? Have the temp agencies outlawed? Then those people that are trying to stay afloat have it that much harder. Like I said before the temp agencies are not the root of the problem. They may be part of it. The companies that use the temp agencies are another part. And finally the people that go to the temp agencies in search of short term employment are another facet of the problem.

I'm not taking sides on this one, but just offering an observation.
In this economy it would stand to reason that temp agencies are thriving. There are many people with excellent skills that are out of work. Temping offers them an opportunity to continue working.
Many temp agencies offer benefits which include insurance, overtime, vacation pay, etc.
In come cases, the hope is to be hired by the company for which a temp is working.
In others, it is a chance to network with others in their field of expertise. That networking is an important outlet for learning of openings.
Temps make a living working on projects that are short term. It makes sense, from a business standpoint, to bring in contractors for those projects.

Baloney,corporate greed is , and always will be at the heart of labor/management problems, workforce downsizing, so the CEO can be over compensated, and the number one reason they go overseas.
Maybe calling for temp agencies to be abolished was over the top, but guidelines should be in place as to how the greed ridden companies use them.
People are losing jobs because companies have a benefit free labor pool. Cheap labor, cheap products, no cost reduction to the consumer = more money for the CEO's.

So is the insurance industry greedy for making 4 cents on every dollar it spends?

Are the oil companies greedy for making a dime for every dollar they spend?

You do realize that CEO of large corporations are the pro athletes of the business world? There are few that have the expertise they do and they get justly compensated for it.

Oh and if you have any stock you are an owner of that company and you profit when they do so don't complain.

Sounds like Jealousy to me Frank.

Frank,
You said Temp agencies should be illegal.

Some companies, big or small, might be greedy by using them. Some might be just trying to stay in business these days.

But your solution was to ban all of them, putting more people out of work. I don't like the idea of the Government saying which type of business can operate and which ones will be illegal.

Like I said earlier, John, it appears you are pro business and I'm pro labor, and I like how you avoid the pieces of my posts you can't argue with and go after the ones you can. And Peter, that growing economy you speak of had a false bottom, it was booming on borrowed money.
Look what happened when it was exposed.
If I were an employer,and I paid a person to be a human resources manager, what reason would I have to pay a third party to that job? Oh thats right, now I can lay off my human resource mgr., I don't have to pay the temp. agency benefits.Sounds like job creation to me.

Howard, temp.jobs misrepresent the true state of an economy, what jobs are being created? No benifit jobs, that's great, a paycheck, but if you become ill, or your teeth start rotting cause you have been a benefitless, temp employee for the last 3 years, what good is it. Why do you think health care is in such shambles, maybe because too many people can't pay their bill?
Yes, some of the agencies offer benefits, but it you want them, it will cost you half of your minimum wage paycheck.
No Howard, I'm not anti business, but many businesses are making huge profits at the expense of the working man, the environment, and preying on those stuck in this bleak economy.

Frank,
What part can't I argue with? You want to ban a type of business, I don't think that's right.

You also seem to want set government mandated benefits for every business, even if they can't afford them.
Well, what are they? I know some companies already offer medical and some don't. Some offer paid vacations and some don't. Some offer more than minimum wage, some don't. Some offer full time employment and some don't. Some offer a retirement plan, some don't. What would your mandated benefits be? And what do you do to the employer who can not afford your mandates? And who decides if they can afford them?

And as for some businesses being "greedy", when where some not? You read history, so you know that as far back as the Revolutionary War (and really, even before), people made this same complaint.

Frank the entire economy did not have a false bottom, just the housing market. The government subsidized housing market.

There was an economic boom because the government let people handle more of their money.

Frank it is job creation. Instead of one person as your HR manager, you now hire a company which is going to need to hire someone to cover your company, someone to do the payroll, someone to sweep their floors....

Or you could hire one person...one person who has no clue about how to make the product that you produce...

What your suggesting is the same as have a company build finished goods from raw materials that still need to be collected instead of letting another business specialize in a portion of the industry.

Frank, most people have a 401k with stock in. They are the working man, benefiting from the big business profits...

John, where did I mention mandates, I'm just saying, that in the bigger picture, temp.jobs are merely bandaids on a gash.
Let me put it this way, if you were on public assistance, and all your medical and dental needs were paid for, what incentives do you have to go out and work 8 hours a day to get less than what you had for doing nothing?

Peter, how well did your 401k do after 9/11? How well did it do when the bottom dropped out of the economy? I lost more than I could ever recover if I worked another 20 years.I personally don't believe all the losses were honest.

Frank,
If you do not want mandates, then you are saying that companies, within the law, can offer what they want and hire temp workers or not.

And if a company has the money to offer benefits, but does not want to, would you force them to it?

John , I think I made my point, see my last post directed to you.

Frank, I was in the service on 9/11/01. Had no 401k. I was 19

The market bottoming like it has, has essentially put all the stocks on sale for someone my age who still has decades to go before he sees retirement. And I can't blame the corporations for the stock prices dumping across the board.

Chris, there you go again...throwing out talking points instead of facts to support your argument.

You said:

"JoAnne, do you know what clawback provisions are? Unshackle Upstate hates them."

There are different definitions of clawback provisions depending on the context in which they are used. I support clawback provisions in most cases, especially where fraud is involved for financial gain or to recapture incentives given when certain benchmarks are exceeded. They would have been a nice inclusion in the government bailout agreements so that we could have recaptured excessive executive compensation from companies like AIG, but that's a debate for another day.

However, the context in which they are used in S.750, which is opposed by Unshackle Upstate, IS anti-business and I agree with their opposition. This bill would impose unfair performance and clawback provisions for businesses receiving tax credits or other assistance under the Empire Zones program or through Industrial Development Agencies. I do believe a clawback provision should be part of economic development agreements, but not in the context as presented in S.750.

To make a blanket statement that Unshackle Upstate hates clawback agreements is, as Howard likes to say, a spurious argument.

I've yet to find anything that justifies your statement that UU loves corporate welfare. Is there a specific piece of legislation that they either oppose or support that you disagree with or is that just another talking point?