County Manager's revised budget proposal moves the duties of Genesee Justice to probation, with victims' advocacy becoming a division of the District Attorney's office.
Genesee Justice Director Ed Minardo has offered a counter proposal that keeps Genesee Justice in place, but reduces hours of staff and Ed himself would resign his position.
Gsell characterized his proposal as a reduction in service, but District Attorney Lawrence Friedman said Ed's proposal is by far preferable to eliminating Genesee Justice.
The legislature is discussing the options now.
UPDATE 5:08 p.m.: Genesee Justice is not dead yet. Ed Minardo's proposal will receive a week's worth of study to find out if some issues can be resolved (more later). The legislature will meet on this topic next Monday at 5:05 p.m.
MORE TK
Too bad I didn't pick up
Too bad I didn't pick up those Black Friday discount spines in the medical aisle at Wal-mart.
I can think of about nine people who could really use one right now.
You're missing a good
You're missing a good discussion here. Very thoughtful.
Round and round it goes.....I
Round and round it goes.....I dont think Gsell really gets it does he?
I wish I could be there.
I wish I could be there.
Do you have a recording
Do you have a recording device with you Howard? I'd love to hear the audio.
Do you really want to hear
Do you really want to hear Gsell pouting like a child, "I don't want a reduction in service, I want it gone!" Maybe he can do a little foot stomping or holding his breath for effect.
There is no way he is going to let them rain on his parade. He dug in his heels on this. After all, how many county executives can add to their resume', "Eliminated an internationally acclaimed program because I could."
Bea, to be honest, that's not
Bea, to be honest, that's not fair. One point a couple of legislators made was that they provide very clear direction to Gsell: Cut the budget; don't raise taxes. It's one thing to support Genesee Justice. It's another thing to try to paint anybody the people involved as having evil intentions.
Howard, Not evil at all. His
Howard,
Not evil at all.
His intention, in order to accomodate the legislators, was to eliminate a proven program.
Minardo is throwing himself under the bus to save a program he believes in. How many other people would do the same?
The amount the county is saving by eliminating Genesee Justice is miniscule. It won't reduce county taxes or keep the status quo. It may, in fact cost the county more in the long run.
I have no confidence that this will have a satisfactory ending. It will be coal in the stockings for those who have worked so hard on this program and for those who did benefit from it.
What issues are there to study and resolve in the next week that weren't apparent for the weeks leading up to today?
i agree, Bea...let's see how
i agree, Bea...let's see how much the jail budget has to increase by next year. Perhaps Gsell should make the same offer as Minardo
Let us get this straight.
Let us get this straight. Nine legislators tell the manager to do something. That something is to give a budget that does not raise taxes and makes up for a shortfall of $5-$7 million dollars. The manager does what he is told, and some bad mouth him.
The nine didn't say give us a budget with just a little tax increase, they said none. What part of Gsell works for them don't you understand? And Gsell has no contract, each year he has to be rehired, so what do you expect him to do?
And other departments are facing cuts to service and maybe layoffs also (County Clerk, Holland Land Office, etc), so again, what did Gsell do wrong to be bad mouth by people like Bea.
For a start John how about
For a start John how about trying to summarily cut a program that could skyrocket costs after the budget is in place and it's too late to re-instate it. Also he did this without even consulting with the legal community on it's importance, blindsiding them with it's elimination and spreding it's duties throughout the already strained legal system.
Just look at the sheepish reactions Gsell gave when the legal community got together. After they had their say he claimed it wasnt a done deal just a proposal, but it's still going forward isnt it.
There are obvious pitfalls that are gonna end up costing the county much more money in the long run if and when this program is eliminated.
It is not the managers job to
It is not the managers job to ask the legal community what might happen, it was the legislators.
The nine did not say give us a few budget options with different tax rates. They said NO TAX INCREASE. We don't even know Gsell's opinion of the GJ program.
You might be right, there may be pitfalls if GJ is cut. There might also be pitfalls cutting the staff at the Parks, the County Clerk office or the Holland Land Office.
But don't dump on the manager for doing what he was told to do. Try to remember he is doing what he was told to do by his bosses, all 9 of them
Well, John, if Gsell is a
Well, John, if Gsell is a saint then his bosses are the sinners.
Maybe if the Legislators took a more hands-on approach to, say, legislating instead of issuing orders that can't be followed we could all go on ignoring our county government and get back to bitching about the City Council just like the good old days.
I'm liking the idea of going back to the Board of Supervisors more and more.
John your living in a dream
John your living in a dream world, how responsible is it for a manager to to decide summarily to eliminate a program without consulting with ANYONE from the justice system and getting at least an idea of what the repercussions might be or what the caveats would be.
In GJ we are dealing with legal issues and criminals, cutting staff at county parks, county clerks office or holland land office while not the best solution it wont result in millions of dollars in overruns by overcrowding jails, or having to board out the overflow to other facilities, or even worse release them on us while they await trials or sentencing.
If I still worked in propety maintenence and my boss tells me to go take care of a driveway in a snowstorm. Would it be responsible of me to take dynamite and blast the snow into the lawn? By your logic it's not as it's not my responsibility to look or assess a better way to do it, just follow the bosses orders and do what I am told. Even if it means repairing or replacing the driveway and having to clear the debris from the lawn.
Kyle, Wake up. The input from
Kyle,
Wake up. The input from those that might be affected has been heard, in the way it is supposed to, called a Public Hearing.
It was the legislative responsibility to ask questions before the hearing if they had wanted. They had the budget beforehand, so it would have been easy for them to do it.
Again, the nine legislators did not tell the Manager to come up with different options. And even now, it is clear their orders are still NO TAX INCREASE. And since a tax increase seems dead, where else, Kyle, would you cut to keep GJ? Personally, I like the plan GJ has presented, but then what next year? This problem is not going away.
Of course, the legislators can all run for reelection next year with the promise to raise taxes and bring back all the cut services. I wonder how many will take that pledge?
There is no doubt that sooner or later taxes will have to be raised. Cost of utilities will go up, equipment will have to be replaced and sooner or later deserving employees will get pay raises. And Albany does not seem willing to cut back on Medicaid, making us pay even more.
On the positive side, higher taxes will drive even more people out of the area, which may reduce the need for a new jail.
And why does there seem to be a desire to always blame the managers for doing what they are directed and follow decisions by elected bodies?
John wrote, "I like the plan
John wrote,
"I like the plan GJ has presented, but then what next year?"
Well, but Ed Minardo's plan addresses next year, and the next and the next. If it works.
As for the inevitability of raising taxes -- the move afoot in Albany seems to be to severally limit at least the property tax levy. And maybe that will only be a limit on school districts. But I don't trust Albany to protect local governments. Look what they -- and Washington -- have done to local government discretion over the past decades or so.
Chris, Nobody is a "saint",
Chris,
Nobody is a "saint", but the manager is not the devil either. Most of the legislators have been around awhile and know how this all works.
The legislators give clear direction to their employee to do something. He does it, gives it to them. They look at it, do not order any changes, and have a Public Hearing. After the hearing, and more meetings, the legislators have still not told the manager to give them an alternative budget that raises enough money to keep any of the proposed cuts. Cooperative Extension, the Parks, Holland Land Office, County Clerk, all face laying off real people and/or cutting service. And I would bet more average people here have contact, or use them than use GJ.
Boy, can't wait to watch the fight if they recommend selling the Nursing Home
John, the County Manager and
John, the County Manager and the legislators have been shown that Genesee justice, in its current form, actually saves the county money. Even math can't sway these people from their appointed course.
If Gsell is just a lemming who lives to serve at the whim of the legislature, then somebody needs to remind those nine people that occasionally they are dead wrong about an issue.
For God's sake, Mary Pat's comment yesterday was straight out of the 'How to be Stubborn' playbook.
"The people who have come forth on this particular issue are people I respect," said Hancock. "These are people who don't usually take such strong stands on issues. I know they like us. They're not against us, but they're wondering why we're doing this. They must be right, but strangely I think I'm right."
So basically, she's saying: I respect these people, I accept that they probably know more about this issue than I do, but I refuse to back of from my ideological stand about shrinking government at all costs.
Then, another legislator refuses to accept that Mr. Minardo is making a sacrifice and instead uses the director's offer to leave his job as a reason to opine about how maybe the job should never have existed.
Yet, another legislator seems to think that everything sub sole absolutely has to be budget neutral for it to be a good idea.
Mr Bausch is the only lawmaker in the room actually making an attempt at brainstorming and While I think his comment about raising property taxes by one dollar per thousand arbitrarily is a bit extreme, I at least respect him for giving the old college try.
Chris, You seem to have
Chris,
You seem to have finally figured it out.
Yes, Gsell serves totally at the pleasure of the legislature. Each and every year he has to be rehired. He has no contract. If you had won your race, you would have expected him to follow your directions (if backed by a majority).
The blame for what you feel is wrong rests squarely on the 9 elected members, no other place.
So I expect that you and your party will run candidates against at least 7 of the Republican (maybe letting Mr. Bausch off the hook). I know of at least 2 Republicans being talked about to run against the 1 Democrat. If the public agrees with you, there will be a new bunch running things next year.
But, they would have to be running on a raise taxes platform. And tax increases, even if needed are a hard sell when trying to get elected. Especially when so many people are out of work to pay them.
The nine have a flawed view,
The nine have a flawed view, two actually confirm it in their statements. Yet John finds no fault. Gsell is supposed to be a robot in his view. And people wonder why things are all screwed up, no one speaks up when things dont seem right, they are just supposed to go along and get along. Don't think for yourself or anything just put the blinders on and do what your told no matter how wrong it might be.
No wonder things are like they are
John, you're so cute when
John, you're so cute when you're condescending.
This isn't about elections, it's about doing the right thing.
How about this, I will publicly and vocally support the first legislator for re-election, regardless of party affiliation who steps out on a limb and demands that we do what is necessary to keep Genesee Justice.
Oh John insofar as my waking
Oh John insofar as my waking up.... do your really think the people that end up in jail are people who own property or will move out if the tax goes up? Maybe it will drive enough people out that we go to a board of supervisors rather than legislators who obviously dont know a thing about whats going on around them, but then again how can they hear with their heads so far up their "you know whats"
Kyle, Again, wake up. I am
Kyle,
Again, wake up.
I am not against GJ, or even an increase in the sales tax to keep at least the diversion part of it. But I don't see GJ as more important than other things that are going to be cut either.
We still have the Nursing Home issue coming up, and if you live in the City, more budget problems coming in the Spring. More cost and likely, more taxes.
You are right that I don't fault Gsell. He is doing his job. And I have no problem blaming the legislators. I supported both losing Democrats who ran for the legislature (Chris was one) last time. I might again, depending on who, if anyone, runs next year.
You might not have noticed, but many property owners/tax payers are out of work right now. Money is tight and from the poll today, most do not want a tax increase.
And as for a Board of Supervisors, not a bad idea, but what makes you think any Town Supervisor right now would vote to raise any tax?
In theory, a tax increase
In theory, a tax increase seems needed. In reality, any amount of increase that would actually make a difference would be so high, it could have potentially devastating effects to the economy. If there were an increase, I believe the priorities should be Genesee Justice and Soil and Water. But as John points out, there are a lot of local needs, and to meet all those needs would take more than just a small increase.
And that might just mean no increase is the best tactic and letting the crisis grow and see if Albany wakes up and gets off the backs of local government. It won't, but what are the options?
Posted by Kyle Couchman on
Posted by Kyle Couchman on December 2, 2010 - 10:21am
And people wonder why things are all screwed up, no one speaks up when things dont seem right, they are just supposed to go along and get along. Don't think for yourself or anything just put the blinders on and do what your told no matter how wrong it might be.
Welcome to the county way of thinking! Most people who work for the county take this attitude or they don't last long as a county employee. Often their ethics are thrown straight out the window! I have seen first hand people whom I previously held in high esteem fold for the 'gotta do what they tell me' regardless if they have to lie or doctor things up. They do what they feel is necessary to keep their job, not what is right! I have always voiced my beliefs and concerns and stand up for what is right. I have been punished for it, but I sleep very well at night, and I can hold my head up thank you. I still have some close friends who did and still do work for the county. They have learned to keep quiet...and safe. Not everyone goes out on a limb!
Jay Gsell likes to hear what he wants to hear, and he will stand by anyone who says it can be done, even if it can't. There is always somebody who will say it can! That is the problem.
I got an idea! Lets use the million (or was it 2 million) we have laying around from the sale of the Health Dept homecare service toward GJ! Surely we have been earning lots of interest on that. Also we are saving the money that was wasted on the salaries and benies of all that staff that no longer have jobs there! Oh, wait... that money disappeared somewhere? The money that came in as payment of nursing services is not there anymore, so we have to take money from somewhere else to pay the bills. Well gee, it looked good on the proposed budget...