This is a well written article that gives the positives and negatives of the school aid cuts.
JMHO:
Everyone in the private sector has learned to live with less. It is time for the state government and the schools to do the same.
This is a wake up call to the schools. Do more with less. Compete for the grants that the state will offer and do so by proving that your school system can post positive performance levels (in order to do that you have to have the teachers).
Negotiations between teachers and support people have to be realistic. School boards have to look beyond the unions and cut the dead wood in their administrations. In other words, don't protect the administration jobs while cutting programs and teachers.
In the long run, all of us will be effected by budget cuts. We may not like them, but if it will bring the state's finances back from the brink, then it will be worth it.
ALBANY -- Calling the state "functionally bankrupt," Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo proposed some of the steepest-ever spending cuts for public schools.
The spending plan for the 2011-12 fiscal year beginning April 1 also features reductions in state aid to localities across Western New York, the Medicaid program and state agencies, and the possible firing of as many as 9,800 state employees.
"We have to think in terms of restructuring because the state doesn't work on the numbers anymore," Cuomo told lawmakers Tuesday as he unveiled his first budget proposal.....
....Unions and education-advocacy groups said the cuts would be felt in the classrooms and after-school programs. With state officials also eyeing a cap on the growth of property taxes for school districts, the state's big teachers union -- New York State United Teachers -- called the education cuts "a potential recipe for a devastating impact in many districts."
Cuomo anticipated the criticism.
"There will be absolutely no need for any layoffs," said Cuomo, who noted that schools statewide have $1.2 billion in reserve accounts -- though many sharply lowered their rainy day funds last year -- and still have $600 million left from a federal aid allotment.
"So schools can make up the money," said the governor, who pushed them to extract wage and benefit concessions from management and teachers and to consolidate some of the state's 700 districts -- a third of them with fewer than 1,000 students.
.....In a carrot-and-stick approach, the Cuomo plan does offer localities extra aid if they consolidate services or merge with nearby government entities. Cuomo also promises that a task force studying ways to reduce state mandates on localities will help make up for the cuts in aid.
......State lawmakers, many of whom ran on fiscal-austerity themes last fall, rushed forward to say they supported the budget. "I thought he scored on all fronts," Sen. Michael H. Ranzenhofer, an Erie County Republican, said of the Democratic governor's plans.
Ranzenhofer said he has "concerns" about some of the funding hits that schools, for instance, would experience under the Cuomo plan. "They're going to have to make adjustments and live within a budget that's going to have less spending," Ranzenhofer said.
"They're going to have to make adjustments and live within a budget that's going to have less spending," Ranzenhofer said.
That's the last sentence of the article and truly the bottom line. We, meaning NY State residents don't have much choice. The party is over for overpaid administrators and government policy types. They are not going to go quietly. There has to be a sea change in how government, including school districts are operated, it's critical.
If cuts mean less education for the students no. What I do agree with is cutting superintendents pay. Totally ridiculous they get paid what they do. When a superintendent retires or leaves employment the new one comes right in at that pay level. Take a close look at sports programs. Do students need as many along with all the expenses of the fields they play on? Bussing costs money to get all the players to great distances. More opportunities for math and science competitions. Take the cuts and make ajustments not necessarily less teachers.
The biggest burden other than Federal mandates to NYS budget is State public employee Pension and Benefits. When I see a language teacher that makes $90,000 a year and will retire with a pension alone at approx. $60,000 plus benefits. Don't get me wrong I have great respect for teachers, police, fireman etc. but the fact is over 90% of private company workers have no where near these benefits or pension.
Gary, Are you saying that sports should be cut, in favor of math/science competition? Correct me if I am wrong but your kids are educationally gifted. What about the kids who aren't so? My eldest son struggles with acedemics,and has a reading disability but he is motivated to keep the grades up = more effort because he wants to participate in football and wrestling. Everyone can't be the best and the brightest, ya love them anyway.
Michele, what I am saying is schools don't need to offer as many sports programs such as indoor track that takes away from the other sports. Find out what it costs for a bus to run 150 miles round trip to attend an all day indoor track competition paying that driver for all day plus the fuel. There a lot of other sports like soccer and wrestling that are less expensive to run. If your son struggles with education then we need to get a teacher and a better program to help him get the education he needs. I do understand the effect sports has on motivation don't get me wrong but everything comes at a cost. There are other areas to cut first before programs like sports that actually help students.
Oh gawd, you know what these cuts mean don't you? Not only will the elementary students be selling $10.00/6 oz horrid candies at Easter, they'll be making these babies go out and sell stuff all the time! They'll be telling these kids, "If you sell only $500.00 worth of candy, you'll get this swell plastic piece of crap made in China!"
I support a cut in aid to schools, but would like to know that it is an equitable cut.
According to a recent Catholic Advocacy Network Alert, Gov. Cumo proposes cutting reimbursement to religious and independent schools by 8 percent while the proposed cut to public schools is only 7 percent. Also, the Governor proposes $500 million in new funding to reward public schools for academic improvement and administrative efficiencies. According to the same Alert, the Governor also ignores the fact that the state is delinquent on $260 million in reimbursement to religious and independent schools for mandates carried out by schools dating as far back as the 2002-03 school year.
Assuming the information in the Alert is accurate, I think any cut in aid should be structured to ensure that all schools are treated equitably and receive the funding to which they are entitled.
John , Teachers are not State workers , but belong to a union tied to new york state .So why cant we lower the pay of non-performing teachers or ones that abuse the system . How much money is to much money for teachers to earn . Should a teacher bring a salery equal to the governor and only work 10 months , have tenure , sick days , take extra pay for clubs , and department heads , great retirement , and also have aides do most of the leg work , have two sometimes three plan periods a day , and then not teach what needs to be taught . The system is broke and needs an overhaul , starting with the teachers union .
Hey Lori, my sweet tooth looks forward to all the ladies bringing in those NIAGARA candy bars every year for thier kids to work. Granted my clothes tend to unexplainably "shrink" and somehow get tighter during the school year, but man I love that chocolate :)
If you can name one teacher in this area that is bringing home $175,000 a year I'd love to see it. Adam Urbanski is probably the highest profile teacher in Western NY and his salary last year (he has since retired from teaching duties)was $105,000. On the other side of the "perks" equation you mention, how many other decent paying jobs require a Masters Degree?
As a teacher I voted "no"! Generalizations about the NYS education system based on city schools really do no apply to our rural school districts. We have great results and we work for much less than any other profession that requires a masters degree. I have been teaching for 10 yrs and I barely make more than a 1st year teacher in the Rochester City district, but I love my job, and I love the kids. I work hard, as do all of my co-wokers...not because we have a cushy paychecks, because we care about what we are doing. However, I expect all of us to recieve our pay that has been promised in our contracts and for my co-worker to not be in fear of being layed off. Our school, that again has great test results and graduation rates, is looking at a $1 million drop in state aid...almost all departments are looking at cuts in staff for next year. I understand that our state is in financial despair, but we are only hurting our kids and our state's future by cutting education. Afterall the students can't teach themselves...and contrary to many beliefs...teaching has a little more to it than having a book with all the answers.
By the way....I will never see $90,000 before retirement! lol Is that really what people think teachers make? And NYS teacher retirement does not include any benefits.
I voted yes. School district spending and property taxes are out of control. This is in conjunction with the Governor's ideas on how to better fund and improve education beyond just throwing money at the problem. We cannot afford to be #1 in education spending and #34(?) in performance. Our local school district has a budget of over 20 million dollars and continues to score mediocre on rankings. At the same time, taxes continue to go up and up and the actual education of our children continues to stagnate.
I am a fan of performance based education funding, I believe that this is an exciting new development in the state. I hope that this, along with mandate relief, passes so schools can innovate and compete with each other for funding. I believe that this will end any auroa of comfortable stagnation in districts and will drive teachers to be better teachers.
I am hopeful that at some point during the session an Assemblyman/Senator will be brave enough to introduce legislation that would end teacher tenure. Yes, we should pay teachers like they are professionals and then we should treat them like professionals. In no other job that I have heard of can you get protection for being poor at your job. Tenure is unfair to students, parents, administrators and taxpayers.
Hugh Carey said in the 1970s "The days of red wine and roses are over." The same applies here, school districts can no longer count on the fattest sums of money from the state to fund over-bloated programs. We need to start consolidating programs, focus on the basics (academics and special eduction), less on the inessentials and fostering an environment of competition so New York's schools are ready for the 21st century.
Dan, I agree with most of what you are saying. Consolidation of some programs (the non-essentials, for example) may be the way to go.
In sports, for instance, can we combine several schools' sports programs into one? Indoor track was mentioned. Why not take those who are talented in that sport and make it a district team rather than a single school team?
Each child should be able to develop to their best potential. Some excel in scholastics, others find motivation in areas that may not be considered "essential" by some.
There are life lessons to be learned in activities such as sports, music and art (the big three that get cut first).
Yet, a budding artist who is allowed to develop may find employment, as an adult, in the graphic arts field. A budding musician may find a good job in that field, or may use that training to contribute to their community by performing in a community band or orchestra. A child who excels in sports may be on their way to using that early training as the stepping stone to leading a healthy, active adult life.
Children deserve a well rounded education that includes the basics and the activities that they might carry through the rest of their lives. Could we do that by consolidating these programs? Would it be worth investigating?
I'm surprised how fast people always jump on the "kick a teacher when their down" band wagon. Our local districts don't pay the teachers nearly as much as people think they do, $35,000 a year with a masters degree isn't exactly lucrative...
As Cumo said in his speech, it is absurd that superintendents and administrators make more than he does. There was an article last summer about the 25 highest paid public employees in our county, that would be a more worthy list of people to scrutinize. Example: Superintendent of little rural Pembroke, Gary Mix pulling in around, $225,000.+ benefits... that's a lot of extracurricular activites and job positions...
Mark - With a few exceptions, I don't think anyone here is anti-teacher. Administrator salaries far exceed what they should be and we should look to lower them to save money. I also said that teachers should be paid like professionals, what I also am saying is that teachers should be treated like professionals. They should have yearly reviews, without tenure and have their performance based on assessments and portfolios.
The status quo isn't working, it's time to change it. I'm glad to see the Governor advocating for those reforms and that he is receiving bipartisan support.
Go to seethroughny.net, click on payroll and pensions and then click on schools. On a drop-down menu on the next page you will be able to find the Batavia City School district.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that a teacher's salary shouldn't be higher than the base salary of a state legislator.
Shine it up any way you want, it's still class envy. Having a Masters Degree is not a requirement to be a politician but it is required of teachers. They also do have annual performance reviews.
Kevin,
May I ask your profession and, if in education, where?
The annual performance reviews for tenured teachers are meaningless.
If that tenured teacher does not live up to the performance measurements and standards set down by the school board what happens to him/her? A hand slap and told they best do better next year? Where is the carrot and stick?
A teacher who is only performing up to 80% of his/her potential is failing their students 100%.
Turning a blind eye to the fact that these situations exists does not make them go away.
In the private sector, my performance reviews were based on how I succeeded in reaching the goals and objectives agreed upon at the last review.
In other words, performance was based on real measurements.
Pay raises and promotions were based on real measurements.
There were times when good people found themselves out of a job because they lost sight of those goals and objectives and their performance deemed less than satisfactory.
In most business situations, the performance is not only based on personal performance but product performance as well.
If product/project reviews didn't meet the expectations, then the product and project managers could easily lose their jobs.
If students (the tenured teacher's product) fail, what recourse does the school board have?
As far as a Masters' degree is concerned. In the field of pharmaceutical R&D,Ph.Ds are the norm. So much so, that the head of our division once announced that anyone who was not named "doctor" at birth, would be addressed by their first name. Even the requirement for a bench tech was a Ph.D. Their starting salary was far less than what teachers, with a Masters, are getting in Genesee Co.
This is not a diatribe against teachers. Nor is it degrading their education. I respect and appreciate the work that good teachers do on a daily basis.
It is a belief that tenure is not needed. I would much prefer to see our teachers rated the same as their counterparts in the private sector.
Kevin - That's not the case. I said that teachers should be paid like professionals, but that also means that they should have the same pay increases and accountability as other professionals, whether in government or in the private sector. Evaluations are meaningless with tenure, tenure makes it nearly impossible to fire teachers who are under performing. I'm all for education, and that's why I think it's time we stop making excuses for bad teachers.
Anyone who has worked in education can assure the public that annual reviews, peer reviews, training, re-training, program evaluation, tests and more tests, student performance analysis/goals AND dismissing staff who do not measure up are part of the culture of education. I would wager that more tax-dollars are spent on performance evaluation than on text books and teacher salaries combined.
Most teachers who fail to perform are eliminated before ever being granted tenure. It should be noted that the value of tenure is to prevent politically-motivated house-cleanings that bear no connection to quality of education.
Logically, some of the best teachers are those with more experience. They are also the higher earners.
If taxpayers really want to save money on education, they might look at programs that sap more resources. Without doubt, discussion would turn to interscholastic athletics and special education. The arguments would be passionate.
Frankly, to save money on education- with the least impact on programs will require a major shift in how local school districts are managed. The most conflictual elements of such shift will relate to local autonomy and interscholastic athletic programs.
Interesting dialogue, I am not personally in education but I have family that works in Pembroke HS. From what I understand, the yearly observations do hold weight and with the new APPR regulations in effect, underachieving teachers will find themselves without a job.
To keep the conversation on track, we are discussing the budget cuts that are effecting our local districts. The teachers that are going to be laid off are the younger teachers. Teachers that are fresh out of college, with the knowledge of current teaching strategies and the ability to take advantage of the technology that is available in todays classroom. This is not saying that senior teachers are any less effective, they have experience that is invaluable and they are often the leaders within a school. But it is the young teachers that will loose their jobs this year.
The point to remember is the districts are now working with limited resources and where that money is used needs to be scrutinized. Do we lay off 5 (probably many more than this in 2011) good, hardworking, highly motivated young teachers or do we pay one superintendent an exorbitant amount of money and then continue to pay a huge sum of money to him yearly once he retires. If you are on the seethroughny.org website, pull up his contract and check out the perks he is receiving. Makes a taxpayer sick. What is our school board doing and how can Mix look young teachers in the face, with new families and tons of college debt, and tell them to pack up their desk... Its a shame.
Also to address the comment about the Phd and Dr. salary, they may start lower but when you look at the top salaries, the are 3-5 times larger than a teachers top salary will ever be in our county. They probably deserve it, and it takes a lot of work and brains to get to where they are. But good teachers deserve it too, they are not working with production, or statistics or investments of money, they are working with our kids. Every which one of them is different and deserves attention and opportunities to meet their learning styles and personalities. You can't just look at the numbers, there are MANY other factors to consider, many of which are out of our teachers control.
This is going to be a very sad year in our local districts and the people who will be effected and hurt the most will be our kids, not the checkbooks of our overpaid administrators. Research has proven time and time again, the larger the class sizes and the few the extracurricular activities available the worse the kids grades get and the numbers will just go downhill from there. Where does it stop, and do we really want to readjust NYS debt on the shoulders and futures of our kids... I hope not.
This is a well written
This is a well written article that gives the positives and negatives of the school aid cuts.
JMHO:
Everyone in the private sector has learned to live with less. It is time for the state government and the schools to do the same.
This is a wake up call to the schools. Do more with less. Compete for the grants that the state will offer and do so by proving that your school system can post positive performance levels (in order to do that you have to have the teachers).
Negotiations between teachers and support people have to be realistic. School boards have to look beyond the unions and cut the dead wood in their administrations. In other words, don't protect the administration jobs while cutting programs and teachers.
In the long run, all of us will be effected by budget cuts. We may not like them, but if it will bring the state's finances back from the brink, then it will be worth it.
ALBANY -- Calling the state "functionally bankrupt," Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo proposed some of the steepest-ever spending cuts for public schools.
The spending plan for the 2011-12 fiscal year beginning April 1 also features reductions in state aid to localities across Western New York, the Medicaid program and state agencies, and the possible firing of as many as 9,800 state employees.
"We have to think in terms of restructuring because the state doesn't work on the numbers anymore," Cuomo told lawmakers Tuesday as he unveiled his first budget proposal.....
....Unions and education-advocacy groups said the cuts would be felt in the classrooms and after-school programs. With state officials also eyeing a cap on the growth of property taxes for school districts, the state's big teachers union -- New York State United Teachers -- called the education cuts "a potential recipe for a devastating impact in many districts."
Cuomo anticipated the criticism.
"There will be absolutely no need for any layoffs," said Cuomo, who noted that schools statewide have $1.2 billion in reserve accounts -- though many sharply lowered their rainy day funds last year -- and still have $600 million left from a federal aid allotment.
"So schools can make up the money," said the governor, who pushed them to extract wage and benefit concessions from management and teachers and to consolidate some of the state's 700 districts -- a third of them with fewer than 1,000 students.
.....In a carrot-and-stick approach, the Cuomo plan does offer localities extra aid if they consolidate services or merge with nearby government entities. Cuomo also promises that a task force studying ways to reduce state mandates on localities will help make up for the cuts in aid.
......State lawmakers, many of whom ran on fiscal-austerity themes last fall, rushed forward to say they supported the budget. "I thought he scored on all fronts," Sen. Michael H. Ranzenhofer, an Erie County Republican, said of the Democratic governor's plans.
Ranzenhofer said he has "concerns" about some of the funding hits that schools, for instance, would experience under the Cuomo plan. "They're going to have to make adjustments and live within a budget that's going to have less spending," Ranzenhofer said.
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/capital-connection/albany/article329908…
"They're going to have to
"They're going to have to make adjustments and live within a budget that's going to have less spending," Ranzenhofer said.
That's the last sentence of the article and truly the bottom line. We, meaning NY State residents don't have much choice. The party is over for overpaid administrators and government policy types. They are not going to go quietly. There has to be a sea change in how government, including school districts are operated, it's critical.
1st in spending per
1st in spending per student.
43rd in results.
Enough said.
If cuts mean less education
If cuts mean less education for the students no. What I do agree with is cutting superintendents pay. Totally ridiculous they get paid what they do. When a superintendent retires or leaves employment the new one comes right in at that pay level. Take a close look at sports programs. Do students need as many along with all the expenses of the fields they play on? Bussing costs money to get all the players to great distances. More opportunities for math and science competitions. Take the cuts and make ajustments not necessarily less teachers.
The biggest burden other than
The biggest burden other than Federal mandates to NYS budget is State public employee Pension and Benefits. When I see a language teacher that makes $90,000 a year and will retire with a pension alone at approx. $60,000 plus benefits. Don't get me wrong I have great respect for teachers, police, fireman etc. but the fact is over 90% of private company workers have no where near these benefits or pension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0LBZVgq470
http://www.seethroughny.net/PayrollsPensions/tabid/55/Default.aspx
Jack, The teachers are local
Jack,
The teachers are local employees, not State workers. There pay is based on the contracts signed by our locally elected school board.
Gary, Are you saying that
Gary, Are you saying that sports should be cut, in favor of math/science competition? Correct me if I am wrong but your kids are educationally gifted. What about the kids who aren't so? My eldest son struggles with acedemics,and has a reading disability but he is motivated to keep the grades up = more effort because he wants to participate in football and wrestling. Everyone can't be the best and the brightest, ya love them anyway.
Yes John I know. Just an
Yes John I know. Just an example of insane pay and benefits at the local level as well as state.
Michele, what I am saying is
Michele, what I am saying is schools don't need to offer as many sports programs such as indoor track that takes away from the other sports. Find out what it costs for a bus to run 150 miles round trip to attend an all day indoor track competition paying that driver for all day plus the fuel. There a lot of other sports like soccer and wrestling that are less expensive to run. If your son struggles with education then we need to get a teacher and a better program to help him get the education he needs. I do understand the effect sports has on motivation don't get me wrong but everything comes at a cost. There are other areas to cut first before programs like sports that actually help students.
Oh gawd, you know what these
Oh gawd, you know what these cuts mean don't you? Not only will the elementary students be selling $10.00/6 oz horrid candies at Easter, they'll be making these babies go out and sell stuff all the time! They'll be telling these kids, "If you sell only $500.00 worth of candy, you'll get this swell plastic piece of crap made in China!"
I support a cut in aid to
I support a cut in aid to schools, but would like to know that it is an equitable cut.
According to a recent Catholic Advocacy Network Alert, Gov. Cumo proposes cutting reimbursement to religious and independent schools by 8 percent while the proposed cut to public schools is only 7 percent. Also, the Governor proposes $500 million in new funding to reward public schools for academic improvement and administrative efficiencies. According to the same Alert, the Governor also ignores the fact that the state is delinquent on $260 million in reimbursement to religious and independent schools for mandates carried out by schools dating as far back as the 2002-03 school year.
Assuming the information in the Alert is accurate, I think any cut in aid should be structured to ensure that all schools are treated equitably and receive the funding to which they are entitled.
John , Teachers are not State
John , Teachers are not State workers , but belong to a union tied to new york state .So why cant we lower the pay of non-performing teachers or ones that abuse the system . How much money is to much money for teachers to earn . Should a teacher bring a salery equal to the governor and only work 10 months , have tenure , sick days , take extra pay for clubs , and department heads , great retirement , and also have aides do most of the leg work , have two sometimes three plan periods a day , and then not teach what needs to be taught . The system is broke and needs an overhaul , starting with the teachers union .
Gary , I agree Indoor track
Gary , I agree Indoor track is a duplicate sport that is very expensive . Why is there not indoor football , soccer , baseball , and tennis .
Thomas, You can if you can
Thomas,
You can if you can get a School Board elected to bargain for what you want.
Hey Lori, my sweet tooth
Hey Lori, my sweet tooth looks forward to all the ladies bringing in those NIAGARA candy bars every year for thier kids to work. Granted my clothes tend to unexplainably "shrink" and somehow get tighter during the school year, but man I love that chocolate :)
If you can name one teacher
If you can name one teacher in this area that is bringing home $175,000 a year I'd love to see it. Adam Urbanski is probably the highest profile teacher in Western NY and his salary last year (he has since retired from teaching duties)was $105,000. On the other side of the "perks" equation you mention, how many other decent paying jobs require a Masters Degree?
As a teacher I voted "no"!
As a teacher I voted "no"! Generalizations about the NYS education system based on city schools really do no apply to our rural school districts. We have great results and we work for much less than any other profession that requires a masters degree. I have been teaching for 10 yrs and I barely make more than a 1st year teacher in the Rochester City district, but I love my job, and I love the kids. I work hard, as do all of my co-wokers...not because we have a cushy paychecks, because we care about what we are doing. However, I expect all of us to recieve our pay that has been promised in our contracts and for my co-worker to not be in fear of being layed off. Our school, that again has great test results and graduation rates, is looking at a $1 million drop in state aid...almost all departments are looking at cuts in staff for next year. I understand that our state is in financial despair, but we are only hurting our kids and our state's future by cutting education. Afterall the students can't teach themselves...and contrary to many beliefs...teaching has a little more to it than having a book with all the answers.
By the way....I will never
By the way....I will never see $90,000 before retirement! lol Is that really what people think teachers make? And NYS teacher retirement does not include any benefits.
I voted yes. School district
I voted yes. School district spending and property taxes are out of control. This is in conjunction with the Governor's ideas on how to better fund and improve education beyond just throwing money at the problem. We cannot afford to be #1 in education spending and #34(?) in performance. Our local school district has a budget of over 20 million dollars and continues to score mediocre on rankings. At the same time, taxes continue to go up and up and the actual education of our children continues to stagnate.
I am a fan of performance based education funding, I believe that this is an exciting new development in the state. I hope that this, along with mandate relief, passes so schools can innovate and compete with each other for funding. I believe that this will end any auroa of comfortable stagnation in districts and will drive teachers to be better teachers.
I am hopeful that at some point during the session an Assemblyman/Senator will be brave enough to introduce legislation that would end teacher tenure. Yes, we should pay teachers like they are professionals and then we should treat them like professionals. In no other job that I have heard of can you get protection for being poor at your job. Tenure is unfair to students, parents, administrators and taxpayers.
Hugh Carey said in the 1970s "The days of red wine and roses are over." The same applies here, school districts can no longer count on the fattest sums of money from the state to fund over-bloated programs. We need to start consolidating programs, focus on the basics (academics and special eduction), less on the inessentials and fostering an environment of competition so New York's schools are ready for the 21st century.
Dan, Very well said.
Dan,
Very well said.
Dan, I agree with most of
Dan, I agree with most of what you are saying. Consolidation of some programs (the non-essentials, for example) may be the way to go.
In sports, for instance, can we combine several schools' sports programs into one? Indoor track was mentioned. Why not take those who are talented in that sport and make it a district team rather than a single school team?
Each child should be able to develop to their best potential. Some excel in scholastics, others find motivation in areas that may not be considered "essential" by some.
There are life lessons to be learned in activities such as sports, music and art (the big three that get cut first).
Yet, a budding artist who is allowed to develop may find employment, as an adult, in the graphic arts field. A budding musician may find a good job in that field, or may use that training to contribute to their community by performing in a community band or orchestra. A child who excels in sports may be on their way to using that early training as the stepping stone to leading a healthy, active adult life.
Children deserve a well rounded education that includes the basics and the activities that they might carry through the rest of their lives. Could we do that by consolidating these programs? Would it be worth investigating?
I'm surprised how fast people
I'm surprised how fast people always jump on the "kick a teacher when their down" band wagon. Our local districts don't pay the teachers nearly as much as people think they do, $35,000 a year with a masters degree isn't exactly lucrative...
As Cumo said in his speech, it is absurd that superintendents and administrators make more than he does. There was an article last summer about the 25 highest paid public employees in our county, that would be a more worthy list of people to scrutinize. Example: Superintendent of little rural Pembroke, Gary Mix pulling in around, $225,000.+ benefits... that's a lot of extracurricular activites and job positions...
Mark - With a few exceptions,
Mark - With a few exceptions, I don't think anyone here is anti-teacher. Administrator salaries far exceed what they should be and we should look to lower them to save money. I also said that teachers should be paid like professionals, what I also am saying is that teachers should be treated like professionals. They should have yearly reviews, without tenure and have their performance based on assessments and portfolios.
The status quo isn't working, it's time to change it. I'm glad to see the Governor advocating for those reforms and that he is receiving bipartisan support.
Go to seethroughny.net, click
Go to seethroughny.net, click on payroll and pensions and then click on schools. On a drop-down menu on the next page you will be able to find the Batavia City School district.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that a teacher's salary shouldn't be higher than the base salary of a state legislator.
Shine it up any way you want,
Shine it up any way you want, it's still class envy. Having a Masters Degree is not a requirement to be a politician but it is required of teachers. They also do have annual performance reviews.
Kevin, May I ask your
Kevin,
May I ask your profession and, if in education, where?
The annual performance reviews for tenured teachers are meaningless.
If that tenured teacher does not live up to the performance measurements and standards set down by the school board what happens to him/her? A hand slap and told they best do better next year? Where is the carrot and stick?
A teacher who is only performing up to 80% of his/her potential is failing their students 100%.
Turning a blind eye to the fact that these situations exists does not make them go away.
In the private sector, my performance reviews were based on how I succeeded in reaching the goals and objectives agreed upon at the last review.
In other words, performance was based on real measurements.
Pay raises and promotions were based on real measurements.
There were times when good people found themselves out of a job because they lost sight of those goals and objectives and their performance deemed less than satisfactory.
In most business situations, the performance is not only based on personal performance but product performance as well.
If product/project reviews didn't meet the expectations, then the product and project managers could easily lose their jobs.
If students (the tenured teacher's product) fail, what recourse does the school board have?
As far as a Masters' degree is concerned. In the field of pharmaceutical R&D,Ph.Ds are the norm. So much so, that the head of our division once announced that anyone who was not named "doctor" at birth, would be addressed by their first name. Even the requirement for a bench tech was a Ph.D. Their starting salary was far less than what teachers, with a Masters, are getting in Genesee Co.
This is not a diatribe against teachers. Nor is it degrading their education. I respect and appreciate the work that good teachers do on a daily basis.
It is a belief that tenure is not needed. I would much prefer to see our teachers rated the same as their counterparts in the private sector.
http://www.adventure-calls.co
http://www.adventure-calls.com/
Kevin - That's not the case.
Kevin - That's not the case. I said that teachers should be paid like professionals, but that also means that they should have the same pay increases and accountability as other professionals, whether in government or in the private sector. Evaluations are meaningless with tenure, tenure makes it nearly impossible to fire teachers who are under performing. I'm all for education, and that's why I think it's time we stop making excuses for bad teachers.
Anyone who has worked in
Anyone who has worked in education can assure the public that annual reviews, peer reviews, training, re-training, program evaluation, tests and more tests, student performance analysis/goals AND dismissing staff who do not measure up are part of the culture of education. I would wager that more tax-dollars are spent on performance evaluation than on text books and teacher salaries combined.
Most teachers who fail to perform are eliminated before ever being granted tenure. It should be noted that the value of tenure is to prevent politically-motivated house-cleanings that bear no connection to quality of education.
Logically, some of the best teachers are those with more experience. They are also the higher earners.
If taxpayers really want to save money on education, they might look at programs that sap more resources. Without doubt, discussion would turn to interscholastic athletics and special education. The arguments would be passionate.
Frankly, to save money on education- with the least impact on programs will require a major shift in how local school districts are managed. The most conflictual elements of such shift will relate to local autonomy and interscholastic athletic programs.
Interesting dialogue, I am
Interesting dialogue, I am not personally in education but I have family that works in Pembroke HS. From what I understand, the yearly observations do hold weight and with the new APPR regulations in effect, underachieving teachers will find themselves without a job.
To keep the conversation on track, we are discussing the budget cuts that are effecting our local districts. The teachers that are going to be laid off are the younger teachers. Teachers that are fresh out of college, with the knowledge of current teaching strategies and the ability to take advantage of the technology that is available in todays classroom. This is not saying that senior teachers are any less effective, they have experience that is invaluable and they are often the leaders within a school. But it is the young teachers that will loose their jobs this year.
The point to remember is the districts are now working with limited resources and where that money is used needs to be scrutinized. Do we lay off 5 (probably many more than this in 2011) good, hardworking, highly motivated young teachers or do we pay one superintendent an exorbitant amount of money and then continue to pay a huge sum of money to him yearly once he retires. If you are on the seethroughny.org website, pull up his contract and check out the perks he is receiving. Makes a taxpayer sick. What is our school board doing and how can Mix look young teachers in the face, with new families and tons of college debt, and tell them to pack up their desk... Its a shame.
Also to address the comment about the Phd and Dr. salary, they may start lower but when you look at the top salaries, the are 3-5 times larger than a teachers top salary will ever be in our county. They probably deserve it, and it takes a lot of work and brains to get to where they are. But good teachers deserve it too, they are not working with production, or statistics or investments of money, they are working with our kids. Every which one of them is different and deserves attention and opportunities to meet their learning styles and personalities. You can't just look at the numbers, there are MANY other factors to consider, many of which are out of our teachers control.
This is going to be a very sad year in our local districts and the people who will be effected and hurt the most will be our kids, not the checkbooks of our overpaid administrators. Research has proven time and time again, the larger the class sizes and the few the extracurricular activities available the worse the kids grades get and the numbers will just go downhill from there. Where does it stop, and do we really want to readjust NYS debt on the shoulders and futures of our kids... I hope not.
Cut the number of
Cut the number of administrators in each school first!!!! Just how many assistant principals do you REALLY need?