Roger Muehlig has a fascinating story this morning on a 40-year-old master planning document that would have aligned the land use planning for both the city and county.
When you drive around Batavia and contemplate the disorganized approach both entities took to commercial and retail development, you have to wonder: Why was the plan ignored?
The report, "A Comprehensive Master Plan for the Batavia Area," was done by Herbert H. Smith Associates of Rochester as consultant to a Batavia Area Planning Board. It is not dated, but was apparently done in the late 1960s.
Purpose of the area planning board, established in 1966, was "to provide foresight and guidance on matters of concern to both the city and town," according to the document that's on file at the Genesee County Planning Department,
The plan was commissioned in late 1967, the report said, and there are several references to a 20-year planning period up to 1990. The plan, it said, projects the area board's thinking approximately 20 years into the future, "and is therefore an effort to envision the Batavia of 1990."
Review of the 88-page plan is especially timely considering the current proposal to considate the town and city, but isn't there also an element of a little too late? Batavia has undergone a lot of development and revedevelopment in 40 years. It might be a little hard to organize things now.
What would be more helpful, especially if consolidation goes through, is a completely new master plan -- one that builds on Batavia's historic strengths, finds solutions for catastrophic mistakes (like, the Mall), and focuses on creating a dynamic business environment to create jobs and grow revenue.
Greg was trying to make a
Greg was trying to make a point with all this and that point didn’t include using a old master plan from the 60’s. The city and town both have master plans; this is an ongoing process for any municipality, it is normal to update your plan every ten years. In fact, the city has a new one underway.
The point that he was trying to make was that both the city and the town have done master plans for years and those plans have always included the other municipality. The root of what was inferred was that the town and the city have a joint past as well as future.
It's not 1990 anymore Still,
It's not 1990 anymore
Still, don't think we made the Pop forecasts
17.5-18K?
Where is the plan? I don't care that there was one
I want to see it and check it over
steal ideas
What is Batavias identity?
Laz,Very good, you know it is
Laz,Very good, you know it is not 1990 anymore. The issue is not if there was a study that nobody acted on, who cares if there was one 40 years ago. The important thing is that now they seem to be paying attention to the need to consolidate.
Someone was perhaps paying
Someone was perhaps paying attention 40 years ago, John
LOL at "seem to be" equaling importance
yet 40 years of possible progress not meaning anything
The important thing is not that you react quickly enough to hopefully get out of the way of the speeding locomotive
The important thing is to realize the possibility of there being a train on the tracks so as to look both ways before crossing
Backwards, ain't it?
Most times an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
Look at things your "reactionary" way and you'll keep on making the same mistakes
Why exactly does the "master plan" need to change or be revised every ten years?
Does not seem very masterly to me
Seems very likely that people are short-sighted and reactionary
leads to jobs and then loss of and then ..
We have a Lowes and Home Depot and Wal-Mart and now Super Wal-Mart in a city of less than 20000 probably because those allowing these businesses to start up think it's progress towards the master goal of the current master plan
We also have a dead mall
We have a "fence headquarters" that has like 8 fence varieties
I say if your "fence headquarters" doesn't have 30 varietes in it
You don't need it
When the benefits of having these places around mean less and less compared to the quality of life of those living in "their vicinty" ..as opposed to a in THEIR home mentality
"You" revise your ideas of what is important and what truly is not
-I'm not sure Wal-Mart is making "us" people happier
I'm fairly sure "Wal" is
I don't know about the chinese-
Then when things get bad again you do it over because nobody bothers trying to learn from past mistakes
Loss of identity
So again
What is our identity?
Or does it morph every 10 years
If it morphs
Should it be doing so?
If it shouldn't be
Why is it
I wish there was some way of
I wish there was some way of knowing what you’re trying to say, but as usual, it can’t be done.
The fact there was a “Master Plan” 40 years ago is a matter of “so what?”. That plan involved development and some shared services like water and sewer systems. Master Plans are done many times by many governments and usually ignored. They are just that, plans, ideas and thoughts. They are non binding and not submitted to the public for a vote.
Forty years latter Laz, the issue on the table, which you missed again, is consolidation of the Town and City of Batavia into one local government.
Glad to see you found a new buzz word now, “reactionary”.
I'd like to see the "plan"
I'd like to see the "plan" -delve into the minds of those looking at batavias future back then ..anyones
so I can see what it -they- was/were trying to see
I don't give a flying about a "master plan"
If an idea had merit and was cast off 40 years ago
who knows what else could have happened if the building block was set
Many times revised and usually largely ignored
Why do them?
Ford designs many concept cars
The ones that make it into production...
Not too different from the cars we have now
A couple small features that supposedly do something great for you
good percentage are probably frill and end up in the trash
Every 20 or 30 years you get a seat belt or an air bag
I bet the air bag had its roots in some dudes design -automobile or otherwise- in 1940
Maybe 1910
If there was an element of consolidation in 1960 -maybe if even in a broad sense of the word- and in 2010 it seems like a good idea
If certain things looked good then
but took years and years to happen
what has happened in the meantime?
40 years
15 years
If largely ignored
Should they be?
If not
Why are they
I meander trying to get somewhere
Lots of people just wander hoping to eventually trip over a stick or take the yellow brick road back to start
Call the Town of Batavia, and
Call the Town of Batavia, and ask for Supervisor Greg Post. Since he brought the old 40 year old plan up as a point of interest, you can probably get a copy from him.
What you should do is ask also for a copy of the new study as it comes out and read both if your that hung up on this.
Your comment, "I meander", makes everything so clear. Where are you trying to go with this 40 year old thing?
Meander your why on this, on the face of it, right now, do you favor consolidation of the Town and City of Batavia? Do you live in either one? (I do). Do you really care, or just like to "meander"?
I deleted my response,
I deleted my response, John
we all know you don't give a sh about what I think
You follow me all over this site like a puppy chasing kitty cats
If you think I'm easy prey
why do it? This is not the natural world. It's Batavia.
"Making fire" went out of fashion long ago
Your desire to trap me with whatever "gotcha" ;)questions you can think up leads me to believe that you are just a puppy in a mostly puppy world ..or else people wouldn't hold you in such high regard as I assume many do
I like asking questions, John
Questions are more important than pretending you have answers
I know you don't have many answers
I mean solutions
Don't seem to have too many questions, either
You strike me as the type that believes things are how they are supposed to be
Not due so much to their optimal placement or whatever
But just because the way it has been done is how it is still being done so it's obviously the best setup
Perhaps a few tweaks every once in a while
The tweaks that don't make it didn't for good reason
I bet you do whatever you do well
but only ordinarily well
This is how those few extraordinary efforts can be lauded in bold on Sundays
We get "Heroes" and all that kind of crap worship nonsense
You can only IMO believe the world is golden if you accept pyrite
I bet there are ideas in that 1960's plan -the heads of whomever responsible for it- that if implemented would have changed some things for the better
Then those baby steps would have lead to new ideas even "more" beneficial
You dismiss it entirely as being a piece of trash then and especially now 40 years later
You dismiss the new one or believe the money spent on one is wasted due to it being mostly ignored
Or you believe those creating it are inferior
Consolidation is no new idea. If it's a good idea now
Why wasn't it when the idea first began to smoke?
This is what I want to know, John. The answer to that is way more crucial to development than consolidation of the town and city of Batavia
Period
Tell me that if this goes through we will be much better off
Consolidation isn't much for Batavia but I'm not against it ..given what little I know or think I know
I don't live in Batavia anymore. Just outside of it, John.
Why does that matter?
Here comes a very ordinary and yet "very good" answer
I can feel it
I want to care about the right things
Laz, Finally, almost a
Laz,
Finally, almost a straight answer. You are not against, in principle, consolidation. Took awhile of your admitted “meandering” to get that out of you.
I find it odd Laz, that a guy that a guy like you who is so obsessed over a 40 year old non binding plan would not get the plan and read it, then answer his own questions, or challenge its assumptions.
My call on why that 40 year old plan was never acted on, the answer is small minded people who did not want to give up their turf. It had a number of good ideas such as the sewer project that was acted on after awhile. Other ideas never went anywhere when the City annexed part of the Town where Value hardware is now. There were a lot of bitter feelings after that. Sharing DPW services would have one or the other entity give up some of its authority and patronage jobs. Also, while saving money is always a good idea, the economy was not this bad in the 60’s where they really had to get serious.
As for your usually wrong insight, I have supported consolidation/merger for 25 years and I have put suggestions on the table before, both in the paper and at City Council meetings. I never heard from you once. Where were you? You probably didn’t care, but to be honest, not many others cared either.
My recommendation was for the City to give up its Charter thru the State, and become a village. That would force the Town and the County to start shared services. Once that process was underway, dissolve the village and become one town. While I still think that is the best idea, not many others did
Only two City Council members were ever willing to give up their piece of turf and look into this. Mr. Klien who moved into the Town of Batavia before his term was up and present member, Kathy Briggs.
By the way, congratulations. You learned to use “reactionary’ and now “puppy” to hide that while you have something like a question, never once a solution. I look forward to your next catch phrase.
The City Charter Commission is reviewing and updating the current Charter. It had been more than eight years since it was last updated and changes need to be made.
The most important Charter change will allow the City Council to have sub committees like the County legislature has. Their system has worked well and this change was recommended by a number of Council members.
Other changes eliminate unnecessary mandated positions in City Hall such as the vacant City Engineer position.
Other changes will make it easier for the City to share or consolidate services with other governments.
However, while making it easier to share or consolidate services, and make a merger with the Town of Batavia easier, the Charter is separate from the merger issue.
The changes we will recommend to the voters will stand on their own. It there is a merger with the Town of Batavia, there will be a transitional period and a new joint Town/City Charter Commission to blend the two will be needed. Some of the City Charter will stay and other sections will have to be changed to reflect the merger.
If there is no merger, our changes will still be needed.
While I personally support merger, the Charter revisions and the proposed merger will be separate issues.
small minded people who did
small minded people who did not want to give up their turf
You say most times master plans are largely ignored
You're saying most/enough people "up there wherever" are small-minded not wanting to give up anything?
.. There were a lot of bitter feelings after that so some possibly good things didn't go through
why were there bitter feelings?
Sharing DPW services would have one or the other entity give up some of its authority and patronage jobs
How did such a system ever come to be if it's that flawed?
Also, while saving money is always a good idea, the economy was not this bad in the 60’s
I don't really understand this, John. Is this not the definition of reactionary? Waiting till it's almost too late -perhaps it already is- before doing anything and by "anything" I mean throwing whatever you have at the problem
Isn't this exactly what has made the economy go so far south? Now we throw piles of money onto the fire hoping to suffocate it before it has a chance to fuel it
What about war and its causes
Global warming
Who messed up? Do you think "they" did? It seems so but then you apologize for them a bit
Have we all messed it up?
I heard the other day some guru master -he was TV, anyway- say
"Right now people are buying only what they need and this is not the recipe for success/progress"
Whose definition of success?
If you have supported consoliger for 25 years and have tried to keep it on the table through city council and the newspaper and it hasn't worked
Maybe those are not the places that need to hear your suggestions
To me, I'd have to question whether councils are a part of the system you're trying to change or not and who exactly reads the newspaper articles you write
I will probably never go to some city council meeting
I've watched quite a few
Batavian not so sure. I'll watch a couple sometime maybe
Don't seem very interesting and are more reports and occur rarely and public meetings always seem like half a sham unless death is promised and then perhaps minds can change but only if the public cannot be creatively restrained in time
If I went to one I'd have to go to them all and if I'm going to them all I'd better just make "it" my career which means I'm now another in the system with little influence over what actually happens -if I were too radical I'd be branded as a crazy which in end means you get lifetimes of relative stagnation-
..with so much power present in the system I'd have to be careful so as to not find myself back outside the system which means less security in a country/system that demands specialists and so even less radicalism would be seen which means less future radical ideas and since ideas are inherently radical
I know you know more about the workings than I do
But after 25 years? you still seem to try the same things and what you believe to be a solution goes largely unheard
Sounds like the same type of people get elected
Why?
After 25 years it seems like the real problem wouldn't be lack of consoliger anymore
..Especially now that you can say "it seems to be receiving it's proper attention"
You don't care much about ideas having not made it
you care about what idea is or may be receiving attention today
Is that how it is? Seems you'd have a different, stronger opinion.
"..not many others cared, either"
"..Mr. Klien and present member, Kathy Briggs"
Don't mention anyone else by name so I take it you respect their vision and so are less favorable of those unmentioned
Where is the I Told You So? The We should have been more proactive The why are we so complacent with how things are
You seem so ALMOST complacent over being basically ignored
Not productive? I dunno. Either is what comes a day late Or 15 years late or 40 years or
Seems like a lot of wasted time
Maybe your idea is worth listening to and understanding
Maybe it's great
If it is it sure would suck for you to be the guy 40 years from today that went unnoticed that perhaps had a plan that would have prevented whatever uncoordinated resuscitation dance Batavia2050 is attempting
Is this the best Batavia or just the one we have?
If it's not the best or even very likely that it is it seems there are problems riddling the entire process
To me addressing possible problems no matter how small is far more interesting and possibly much more beneficial than talking about current tax rates or the cost of duplication or whatever seems the popular thing that month
If that talk led to real solutions
They'd have solved every problem numerous times over
I trust most people in the job to do their job
I do not trust them to do what isn't really asked of them
at all
5% will do great work and that's not at every site, either.
15% work hard
45% average
solid 30% got the job off lies
Laz, I lost you. War, global
Laz, I lost you. War, global warming and Town and City merger, huh?
Too hard to read this one, but at the end of your post, are you saying 30% of workers got their jobs by lying?