Attorneys argue over Ewoks, phone calls and free speech in Chris Charvella case

What a waste of money. I can't believe that the DA continues to pursue this case. Ewoks? What a joke.

I actually feel bad for the DAs office as they are caught up in this, they really have no choice except to prosecute the charge but honestly, there has been way too many shenanigans over a phone call where no one was hurt. There was no threat made. This is the kind of stuff that makes our county a regional joke.

It seems like the case has always been more about retribution than justice.

This is beyond ridiculous. The DA is insinuating that Charvella's blog post, posted after the phone message (i.e., spoliated evidence), constitutes a threat?

I'd appreciate it if Ms. Cianfrini could explain to me (or a jury) how Mr. Charvella might go about procuring an Ewok who might do something to Mr. Grasso's anus?

Because, if Charvella had intended to threaten someone (he didn't, and state of mind is an element that must be proven), he threatened to retain the services of a fictional alien character from a film released in 1983 who looks somewhat sinister.

What seems exquisitely more outrageous to me, and is omitted from all discussion of this case, is the fact that apparently Grasso came onto Charvella's property without permission, invitation, or legitimate purpose and placed litter (i.e., a Ranzenhofer for Senate sign) on Charvella's lawn, with a handwritten message indicating that he had been there. _That's_ menacing; _that_ was done with an intention to harass or intimidate. I'd find it much more intimidating if a political opponent came onto my property and left a note like that, than by a simple phone call saying, "thank you".

What the DA is attempting to do here is criminalize sarcasm. Did Charvella have a legitimate excuse to call and leave a message on Grasso's phone? Absolutely - Grasso had already apparently <a href="http://charvella.blogspot.com/2010/11/to-legislator-jerome-grasso-aka-s… him by coming onto his property</a>, so Charvella thanked him for reading what he had wrote about him. The leaving of the sign was the reason - the justification for the phone call.

That call didn't happen in a vacuum.

So, Chris, stick to your guns and fight this thing. The judge will probably take it to trial, and when you're acquitted, I hope you sue Grass for malicious prosecution and trespassing.

Revenge on your dime and Charvella's. Hopefully Justice Mike Cleveland deserves his position and believes in justice. Thanking someone for reading your blog is as much a purpose as a machine telling you to vote for Jane Corwin. It's a total waste of taxpayers money. They should have just duked it out and been done with it.

It's a waste of time. The plain truth of this case is that two grown adults were behaving like children, and one after getting mad, instead of calling his mommy, called the police.

I'll bet money hands down that if you told Chris the night he made that stupid call that it was going to cost him $7,000 or more, he probably would have just let it lie.

The fact though that this has cost all of us the same if not more is just plain disgraceful.

Chris and I have not seen eye to eye on many different things, but I do not believe that he was trying to be threatening. He was trying to be cute, and it didn't work.

I think it's time to put this serade to bed and move on to more pressing issues.

Second time I agree with you in one day Phil. We're on a roll here:)

Uh Oh! :-)

So Chris's attorney apparently proves in court that Grasso lied about or misrepresented the time line of events to police and the DA's reaction is to have Chris arrested again?

"legislator" Grasso and the DA's office ought to be ashamed of themselves for pursuing this matter.

How can they be so transparent as to even think that anyone buys their assertion that this isn't completely political.?

What a joke. Except this time the joke is on the taxpayers.

Sure hope Mr. Grasso doesnt plan on running for anything anytime soon. I think this has effectively ended his career as any kind of representative of any kind.

No Kyle, Mr. Grasso has gone back to school for now but he will be back. People have short term memories due to demon marijuana. At least that's what I like to think.

How much has all this cost the County so far? The police should have taken Grasso's answering machine into evidence. The DA can’t even present the evidence because they didn’t keep a recording of it. This case is a joke and a waste of money. Chris should have some way to recoup the 7k he has spent for his defense so far.

Grasso may be getting his legal defense for free, but it is costing the taxpayers a pretty penny.
Where is the outrage?

I'm outraged Bea, vicariously of course.

"Chris should have some way to recoup the 7k he has spent for his defense so far."
I have already written to Judge Judy and she is thinking about it. I hope Justice Mike Cleveland is a smart man and she won't be necessary.

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear."
--Harry S Truman (1884 - 1972)

I may not agree with everything that Chris says or does but he has the right to harbor and express his own opinions as does everyone else.

I don't know why this incident pisses me off but it seems to have something to do with the right wing radical social engineering plan in process and progress as described by Newt Gingrich on live TV a little while back before y'all can still remember.

"A key fact disputed during the hearing was the timing of the phone message in relation to a post Charvella did with a picture of an Ewok with the caption, "Prepare your anus."

Cianfrini said the posting of the picture followed by the phone message was clear evidence that Charvella intended to intimidate Grasso.

Fussell countered that the Ewok picture was posted after the phone call, so Grasso could not have seen the picture before getting the phone message."

Like I said earlier it is extremely alarming, but not surprising, that Grasso lied about the timeline, just as he piece mealed the screen shots to manipulate preconceived threats he carefully gleened from this very website with the intention to show the investigator intent by Chris that just didn't exist. The truth is, Mr Grasso is a master manipulator and a habitual liar.

He started this with sign shenanigens. He set the entire incident in motion. It's nothing new, we've seen this stuff from him for years.

I just hope for justice sake that Judge Cleveland will see the inconsistency and manipulation and throw this thing out.

First, the DA insists that this isn't about politics or the First Amendment, but everything happened within the context of a political campaign, which is the very embodiment of the first amendment.

Second, the ADA should spend less time clarifying quotes with Howard and more time figuring out how Grasso managed to fleece her on the time line. He apparently lied in his deposition and they're just now figuring it out. Isn't that called perjury?

I find this whole thing nauseating. The county does not care how frivolous the charges are. The county doesn't care how much money gets wasted.
Reminds me of a case I was quite familiar with. No crime was committed, but the defendant was threatened with incarceration for not accepting the ADA's deal, and instead asking for a trial.
I hope Mr.Charvella gets compensated for the 7 grand this has cost him. That is of course dependent on a not guilty verdict.

Regardless of how the correction came about, it seems she should be concerned that Mr. Grasso's statements about the order of events was not truthful.

In Genesee County, when it comes to stupidity, money is no object. Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves. Judge Judy would take care of this in 30 minutes or less. I have a strange feeling , that the way this is being handled, its going to be like the Energizer bunny....its going to go on and on and on and on......politics....go figure....

Seems to me that we "The People" that Melissa Cianfrini is representing should send alot of letters to her or her boss..... Indicating the opinion of "the people" they claim to represent, and detail how we are all displeased and feel this a waste of taxpayers time and money.

Might make them re-consider how they handle this particular case especially the way the evidence and statements seem to be failing under scrutiny.

Ms. Cianfrini misapprehends the First Amendment. She is the government. That is, she is the representative of the same government that had arrested - and is prosecuting - Mr. Charvella. It is prosecuting him for the palpably reasonable and justified "thank you" speech left on a conveniently absent voice mail.

She may not like it, but she _is_ unwittingly doing Grasso's dirty work for him, gratis. She may not like it, but because Charvella is being prosecuted for wholly political, justified speech, this does have first amendment ramifications.

Does the Genesee County DA's office live in some parallel universe where government prosecution of speech isn't a constitutional issue and Ewoks exist and could potentially do something to someone's anus?

Posted by Alan Bedenko on June 11, 2011 - 7:11am
Does the Genesee County DA's office live in some parallel universe where government prosecution of speech isn't a constitutional issue and Ewoks exist and could potentially do something to someone's anus?

Al,
Welcome to Genesee Co. politics. This is the land of "it's okay if you are a Republican".
I'd like to say if the situation was reversed, this would never get this far. However, IF the situation was reversed, I can't think of ONE person who would have someone arrested for making a benign phone call (hell, if I knew there was a law about making a call with no legitimate purpose, there are many people who should be sitting a cell today).
This event sent a warning shot to anyone who disagreed with or felt you had been wronged by one of our very RED legislative body. If you contact them, and if you are a member of the opposition party, you might be the next person getting a visit from the state troopers and you might be the next person sitting in Chris' seat.

Grasso's timeline, as we all know, doesn't fit. His fear of an ewok image posted AFTER the "thank you for reading my blog" phone call is laughable. One can't help but wonder if Chris will also be arrested for posting that image because of Grasso's fear of a cartoon character?
By the way, did he "prepare" and how long did he wait before he realized that an ewok wasn't coming after him?
The entire episode, prompted by the political signs placed on Chris' property, can't be brushed away as two guys acting like children. Brushing it off ignores the fact that signs are placed on private property with permission. Brushing it off exonerates the GOP operative who did place the signs. Brushing it off tells us that a Genesee Co. resident shouldn't exercise their right to free speech.
Isn't there an election law about signs? Oh, but wait, this is Genesee Co. It's okay if you are a Republican.
I, like many others, hopes the judge finds in favor of Chris and restores some confidence in our justice system.

Don't blame the DA. They had a an arrest and on its face a serious charge filed. They go through the proper procedure and it is now up to a judge to decide it there is enough to go forward.

If you don't like what is going on, keep your focus on both Grasso and Chris. Remember, this all started with Chris just guessing Grasso went on his property and Grasso saying his wife felt threatened (he blames her).

Well, John, if we're going to nitpick, let's not forget who told the Troopers to make the arrest in the first place:

From Howard Owens on Nov. 17th, 2010:

He also said the State Police checked with the District Attorney's Office before deciding to make an arrest. "We thought maybe it was (harassment), maybe it wasn't. He (the DA) felt that it was so we proceeded with the arrest," Schmidt said.

Did anyone think to ask Mr Grasso if he placed the sign or knew who placed the sign, while under oath? Would he perjure himself?
Then there is this troubling statement of hubris and overreach.
"If those are the facts that come out at trial, the people reserve the right to file that charge," Cianfrini said. "He's on notice."
That sure reads like harassment to me. What do the "people" think of blatant threats by local government employees?

Posted by John Roach on June 11, 2011 - 9:25am
Remember, this all started with Chris just guessing Grasso went on his property....

John.
Are you saying that Chris started this?
I thought it all started by having someone placing the sign on Chris' property.
Isn't that the real beginning of this story?
Chris' reaction was the result of that action. Or maybe I'm missing something here.

Regarding Grasso's wife: If she felt threatened by a "thank you for reading my blog" phone call, how would she react when an unhappy constituent calling to complain about something?

If a single, unwelcome phone call is harassment, why aren't we prosecuting the multiple, unwanted phone calls from Jane Corwin, Nick Langworthy, et al?

Perhaps if Chris Charvella had merely asked Mr. Grasso, "Do you have Prince Albert in the can?," all of this would have remained in the realm of harmless fun.

Chris should have known better than to introduce the vicious, bung-threatening Ewok!

I (along with anal-retentive Republicans - everywhere) feel terribly sorry for Mr. Grasso, who probably hasn't had a decent night's sleep since threatened by a tunneling Ewok invading his colon. I suggest that Mr. Grasso purchase a sturdy chastity belt to defend against any furry fanny forager. (Most manufacturers guarantee their belts accommodate Tangas!)

Let's go back in time a bit to July 24, 1997. At this time Grasso was a Deputy road patrol officer working for the Genesee Co Sheriff's office. On this evening Grasso was quoted in court that he was "looking for drunks".

There was an arrest that evening. A husband and wife were coming home from Tops market to their residence less than a mile away. One of their tail lights were out (how many of us have been stopped for something like this?) and Officer Grasso pulled them over. What happened next is nothing less than an obscene police over reach, where a disabled man in a back brace was manhandled and abused....and then arrested for multiple crimes, including a felony that could have sent this man to prison.

Enter Judge Dadd, brought in from Wyoming to avoid conflict of interest. If anyone wants Judge Dadd's conclusion of fact it can be obtained at Genesee County Courthouse indictment no. 3876, The People of the State of NY vs Joseph P Visalli.

I'm including just one paragraph in the conclusion. The rest is very interesting as well, but too long to type all of it out.

In Judge Dadd's conclusion it states in paragraph 12;
<i>The Courtt finds the defendent's testimony more credible concerning the circumstances which led to Deputy Grasso's use of the spray. The defendant's physical condition and the truck's proximity to his residence make it unlikely that he would have actually attempted to attack a police officer by charging at him. Furthermore, the fact that he wore a back brace should have indicated that he did not pose a likely physical threat to the deputy. Under these circumstances, the Court further finds that the officer's use of the pepper spray in response to the defendant's refusal to enter the truck was unreasonable and unauthorized. Thus, the motion must be granted even if it is assumed that the initial stop was a valid traffic stop and not a pretextual stop under New York State law.

And in paragraph 13;
All the ensuing criminal allegations arose from a fight which was triggered by the unauthorized police conduct.

NOW, THEREFORE, it is hereby
ORDERED that the motion is granted; and further
ORDERED that all evidence obtained pursuant to the June 28, 1996 stop is suppressed and the indictment is dismissed </i>

You might be asking what this has to do with Chris' case. What I see is a pattern of bullying and manipulation and yes, deceit.

Bea, you hit the nail squarely on the head,welcome to republican county.

Lorie, at least the Judge got it right, that does not happen very often.

, Bea,duh. Yes it started with "somebody" putting something on his property, twice.

My point is easy to understand, we do not know, and neither do you, if it was Grasso who did it. I still think it was somebody else, but that is just a personal, a clearly a minority, opinion.

And we do not know if Grasso put his wife up to saying she was scared. But if the DA did not go ahead with this, people would say they were not doing their job. It's up to a judge now. Just hope he dismisses the case.

John, can't speak for all residents of the county, but I do not consider prosecuting threats from elves, martians, pukas and ewoks to be the DA's job.

Are you wearing your Ewok Entry Prevention Device?

John, I have talked to many in law enforcement about this case and all opinions are that this case is ridiculous and that even the arrest was an overreach and I will never name names because they spoke to me under complete anonymity. Do you read police reports with a 2nd degree harassment charge? It is multiple phone calls, it's stalking, it's assaulting someone -- it's never one innocuous phone call stating "thank you".

The process to bring this to resolution is costly for both Genesee Co taxpayers and Chris. And it most certainly is a First Amendment case.

Howard, I'm thinking of marketing an Ewok Entry Prevention Device. ...Get some beer-barrel bung plugs and a couple industrial size rubber bands.

What are your ad rates?

Lorie, I agree, this whole thing is a waste. I don't think for a minute his wife knew about the blog entries or that she would had been scared. It is my personal opinion Grasso saw a chance to embarrass a political opponent who walked right into it. If Grasso had run again, I think this would have cost him the election.

I believe it most certainly would have cost him.

"It is my personal opinion Grasso saw a chance to embarrass a political opponent who walked right into it."

Your point is spot on. The big question, why would anyone who wants to embarrass a political opponent be allowed to manipulate law enforcement into joining him at county tax payer expense?

I always wondered why the arrest didn't come from the Sheriff's office.

I wonder what the statute of limitation is for having someone arrested for a phone call for no legitimate purpose.

I recall a candidate we ran against Grasso telling me that Grasso was calling him numerous times during the campaign for no legitimate purpose. Our candidate's wife found the phone calls very annoying.

He opened the door.

Lorie, If the arrest was from the Sheriff's Dept., where Grasso had worked, the cries of favoritism would have been all over the place. I think Grasso knew that. The troopers were the perfect pick.

Posted by John Roach on June 11, 2011 - 1:43pm
Lorie, I agree, this whole thing is a waste. I don't think for a minute his wife knew about the blog entries or that she would had been scared. It is my personal opinion Grasso saw a chance to embarrass a political opponent who walked right into it. If Grasso had run again, I think this would have cost him the election.

John,
Then we are agreeing, along with Chris' attorney that this WAS political.
The ADA is going to have a hard time proving it wasn't.

Excellent point John, a perfect example of how our leaders use the layers of government to obtain favorable results.

Austin's unofficial motto is: "Keep Austin Weird". I think you should start a campaign to make Batavia's motto: "We Are Weirder".
If someone was truly threatening you a 911 call might bring the BPD but not the Troopers, unless you knew someone and he knew someone.

John, maybe the Sheriff's Dept wanted no part of this for reasons other than their former employee just happens to be making the complaint.

Lorie, where they called first? I don't know. I don't think they were even involved.

Bea, I don't think it was "political", but personal. Unlike you, I don't think this was some vast Republican conspiracy. And your blind attacks on the Republicans are just silly. I think Grasso didn't like Chris took a cheap shot Chris handed him. That said, it is only my opinion.

Unless you have some sort of special insight, we'll never really know if his wife was truly scared of this lame phone call, or if she was put up to it by a guy who didn't like Chris.

I agree with John, this is personal. The fact is Chris took some serious personal shots talking about Jay's finances and problems on the job in public. Jay being a former policemen knew that there was an offense that Chris could be charged with and gave Chris some payback.

That's the problem with local politics, it gets personal and people take things too far. Now both of these guys have been hurt when all of this could have been stopped in the beginning, with one act of compassion or good sence. It's amazing what two men could work out over a drink.

It's terrible that Chris is mixed up with legal trouble over this, it's also a shame that Jay and his wife where humiliated in public by those statements.

Charlie, I'm glad you mentioned that. As much as this whole incident isn't worthy of tying up the court system, noone seems to want to mention that Chris had a voluntary role in this. Both of these folks acted like clowns and they are both getting payment for it.

To quote Will Smith, "Don't start none. Won't be none."

Mike,
What voluntary role? Did he ask that the sign be put on his lawn?

John & Charlie,
Grasso's wife wasn't the one who filed charges, nor was she mentioned on the complaint. The wife thing is just something jay said after all of this got going.

Charlie,
What did Chris say to Mrs. Grasso that was so humiliating?

Bea, from everything I have read, there is no actual proof of any kind that Mr. Grasso was the one responsible for the sign. And second, Chris did make the phone call. That was very much voluntary. And I am rather convinced that he intended no good will when he called. He could have reacted in many ways. Unfortunately he chose a rather confrontational reaction. He may not have been the first one to roll out in the big unicycle, but he was one of the two main characters in the center ring.

I'm disappointed that you can't see where both men were in the wrong here. Because they both were in the wrong.

Bea,I'm not going to debate the merits of this stupid court case. I know you see this as some political struggle but, take a step back to look at the root cause.

Do you really think this is all about signs?

Chris wrote an online attack on the man's personal finances, bankruptcy and home foreclosures. Then he topped it off with an accusation that he beats crippled people.

Don't you think that could have contributed to this esculating out of control?

Anyone who has read the Batavian for any length of time knows Chris is a smart arse. I know cuz I can be at times too, many of us are. Knowing this I am sure he was not doing what he did as a threat nor was he intending his call to be threatening. What we sometimes learn is that being a smart arse can get you in trouble and obviously can be expensive. To me it doesn't really matter why he did it (Grasso's alleged actions). It should never have resulted in an arrest. I beleive Grasso got a result many of us would not have for who he was. He could have asked a warning be given, but obviously he wanted the arrest. Chris could have taken the DA offer and got an ACD and it would have been over and off the record. I know it is hard to chew knowing you didn't do anything wrong, but if you refuse, they are gonna go hard on you. I believe he stands a good chance in having this either dismissed or being found not guilty, but you pay more to get that result and run the risk that you could be found guilty just because the person judging you doesn't like a smart arse or because they don't like your hairstyle or clothes or your political afiliation. That is the system. That being said, I wish you luck, Chris!
Oh, and what Charlie said above may explain what angered Grasso. To me that stuff is typically seen in all election races. Most candidates talk trash about their opponents, nothing new.

OK, I've had just about enough of this. I didn't commit a crime and I haven't told so much as a fib about a single fact regarding this case stretching all the way back to November. I'm comfortable with that.

Chris, noone here is suggesting you lied, and the vast majority don't think you committed a crime. But I, and a few others, think you were guilty of behaving badly. Behaving badly isn't a crime, and it isn't fair that you are dealing with a legal proceding over this, but you certainly had a role in your predicament. I sincerely hope it ends well for you but I also think that there is a lesson to be learned as well.

I don't mean to offend and apologize if I have. I'm just calling it as I see it.

I'm not offended Mike, I don't bruise that easily :)

I was just boiling this thing down to its base element.

Chris, ditto to what Mike said.

Charlie, ditto what I said to Mike. :)

SO.... who is the ditto head here then? :-)

I have a text alert set for any mention of "dittoheads" on the Batavian. Imagine my surprise that it was in reference to Chris :)

Speaking of behaving badly, I am about to about an incident that upset me yesterday, this isnt on topic and if howard wants to do a story on it i will give him the particulars. You all seem veru knowledgeable so this is the only place i can think of to get an answer.

Yesterday I watched a 40 yr old man bully 3 10 yr olds out of what I thought was a popular fishing site on the tonowanda creek. 3 kids were fishing under the pedestrian bridge located between the courthouse and the hlom they were on the south side of the creek. The man came down and said that the area was his private property and used a few choice words and some threatening behavior to drive them out. I find this to be a bit repugnant as i think its wonderful to see kids persuing a noble sport such as fishing rather than being inside on video games or riding nikes and skateboards in the street. These kids were on the creek side of the fence the gate to the area was open and there are no "no trespassing" signs or "private" signs and the area they were fishing from was from a runoff drain the city has there for the stormdrains to drian into the creek. Because this runoff drain is there I assume if everything is normal the city has at least an right of way easment if it is privately owned.

My original plan was to go down there fishing myself and if the guy came to kick me off to ask him to call the police to ask me to leave. It seems confrontational but it is one of the ways to cut through the bs sometimes. I am willing to risk a trespassing ticket just to see if the guy is excercising rights or just trying to keep kids away from an area he wants to fish himself. He lives very close and might feel he owns the area even if this isnt the case. I hope the Nigro's are reading this cause after I have read their articles I know they know the value of learning such a sport from a very young age and the life lessons that can come from participating in such a sport as fishing, despite the badly behaved actions of some. All these kids had were ziplock bags w minnows and their zebco fishing poles so what harm could they have been doing. Even when they left the oldest went around and put his hook wrappers and a tangle of fishline in his pocket before he left. Very sad thing if i truly witnessed such an event of bullying

Howard if this is inappropriate a venue for this please lets see if we can get this in somewhere else where it can be of value and discussed.

Kyle,I too would like to know if the area you mentioned was actually private property. I believe it is city property that can be accessed without trespassing. The area in question to the best my knowledge, is behind rental properties, and it is the people who rent who usually try and kick the kids out of there.
I've fished those areas for years and was never asked to leave the property.

oops,double post.

Chris, I hope when all is said and done, justice prevails,
but knowing first hand how our county courts operate, you're in for a long drawn out process. The DA has access to unlimited funds, and they are not afraid to waste taxpayer dollars.
A big fat lawsuit might be needed to get a reality check, and stop our prosecutors from dragging this type of BS to the courts.
Bad behavior has become a criminal offense in Genesee County, your case is the 2nd time I've seen it in less than a year. Good luck!!!

Just taking the opportunity to ring the "Voter Responsibility" bell. I don't know about the rest of youse, but D A's, judges, police officials and County legislators who think spending oodles of taxpayer money on stuff like this case is well and fine, don't represent me or my values very well. Remember this come election time.

Dave, I agree with you. The sad part is there is probably enough mindless "party line zombies" to re-elect those that are failing at doing their job of REPRESENTING all of their constituents not just their fellow party members.

Maybe if more than 25% of registered voters would pay attention and vote, that might not be the case. I get the feeling that a lot of people don't care for the 2 party nonsense, which is why they don't bother to vote. What if those folks are the majority. Back in the 70's it was called the Silent Majority

Eliminate the two party control

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Dave - So then what, two new major parties can form? People have different political sensibilities and will form coalitions based on their views.

Charlie - Are you still living in Batavia? You seem quiet on the local scene. At any rate, Chris never said anything that wasn't true. Perhaps you should check your facts.

This is what I read above:
A few times during the oral arguments, Cianfrini made the point that Grasso wasn't acting in his capacity as a sitting legislator, so the First Amendment didn't apply to the case.
The events around the case were entirely personal, Cianfrini argued, and not about politics or anything Grasso did as a government official.
"That’s what the First Amendment deals with, the government not politics the placement of a political sign or personal conflicts," Cianfrini said.*
Aren't the DA office and the State Police part of Government? How can she say the First Amendment doesn't apply? Not about politics? Just sayin!

Dan, did you listen to Jesse? Parties should be reduced to P A C's, only candidate names placed on a ballot without any affiliations noted, and "None of the Above" as a choice on the ballot. Then instead of following a party's line, voters would actually have to know something about a candidate's positions. It's not the be-al, end-all but a good place to start. This way we have a chance to get more independents elected and reduce the partisanship. Partisanship is, I believe, partly to blame for the above situation. I will say that Chris was not the one who involved the courts.

To answer your question, Dan, the more independents or members of a party other than the Rep. or Dem. parties you can get into any elected body; the better a opportunity for them to create a voting bloc, which will force the 2 bigs to find compromise, then as there become more that don't owe allegiance to a party and all the special interests that put them in office, you begin to get more independent voting in the body which destroys the 2 party stranglehold on what gets brought up for a vote and the vote trading. Wouldn't that be better? Any government body, County, City, School Board, State, Federal. I like Nebraska's state Legislature as an example.

“The people shall not be deprived or abridged of their right to speak, to write, or to publish their sentiments; and the freedom of the press, as one of the great bulwarks of liberty, shall be inviolable." James Madison
Chris Charvella was arrested and is incurring legal bills for making one phone call which was a reaction to his business and home being trespassed upon.

“The people shall not be restrained from peaceably assembling and consulting for their common good; nor from applying to the legislature by petitions, or remonstrances for redress of their grievances.” James Madison
During the Joe Mesi campaign, the field organizer had volunteers doing some visibility (peaceably assembling) at the corner of Rte 5 and 63 in front of Tops and other locations. They weren't people from our committee -- volunteers with the Mesi campaign. This particular afternoon they crossed the street and stayed on the sidewalk in front of what is now Clor's. This is where the Republican HQ was located with Mr Grasso mannning the office. The volunteers came back to tell us after their shift that they had the police called on them by you-know-who. The trooper wouldn't arrest them because they were on the public sidewalk peaceably assembling. A perfectly legal place to assemble -- he then told the volunteers that he would be voting for Mesi.

Later in the week we had a Mesi meet and greet at Main St Coffee. Jay was there with his own group of protesters out on the sidewalk. We didn't call the police, what they were doing is perfectly legal in a free country. Instead, we invited them to come in for pizza. Jay did come in, can't remember if he ate any pizza. He might have.

See the pattern here?

Thanks Frank and Howard. I guess that means I will follow what my instincts told me. I hope to see those little guys fishing over there again and I think I will join them. If the renter comes over again I will just nicely and politely ask him to contact the police and have them ask me to leave. ( I got coffee after church this am and talked to a batavia police officer and a sherriff that were chatting together back there behind the cop shop next to Timmy Ho's and they also confirmed that it is public property. they also by their manner and attitude conveyed that they might know who the older gentleman was and that it isnt a new problem)

I keep coming back to this for the fun read but honestly the only thing I can think of when I see the headline is this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QI4P0YqtM

Maybe the municipality(ies) should approach the DEC and request that the areas be designated for public fishing.

Dave - My point is that people generally fall left-or-right of center, so that 'independent' voting bloc will evaporate because there is no ideology attached to being an 'independent'. That's a pipe dream.

There is also nothing wrong with political parties. They have existed for the last few hundred years and America has done just fine during that period. Not that I don't believe there should be serious ethics reforms and a bottom up review of government and more moderates being elected, I think that attempting to work outside of the two-party system is a recipe for getting nothing done. Again, most people fall center-left and center-right, and all that turning the parties into PACs will do not much other than allow party money to bypass candidates who do not cooperate with them. I would think that would make the situation worse.

I did see the kid that was run off yesterday afternoon... told him what I found out, with the reccomendation to either get his parents or police involved if he has the same hassle.

Maybe all us local fishermen with time should increase the traffic there, there are some big pike there, I hooked into something that shook my hook after stripping line from my pole....makeing the drag sing out like the 7lb smallmouth wasnt able to do minutes before. It definately wasnt a carp either.

There is nothing wrong with political parties, it's the people in them that are the problem.

I don't want either party being involved in what happens in my life. Further, I sure as hell don't want people thousands of miles away dictating what happens in my life.

Batavia is a conservative (sometimes annoyingly so) town, if you choose to live here then there are certain issues that you have to expect are going to swing right. Yet we live in a state that primarily swings left. My point is let the local governments dictate policy, not a bunch of egotistical windbags that have no idea what it is to live life somewhere.

Just saying...