Hochul appointed to House Armed Services Committee

I am not sure this is the right place to voice this concern, but is anyone on else wondering if the congressmen and senators will be getting paid if the debt ceiling is not raised ? If the public is not getting the money they need then I do not think the lawmakers should be paid. This includes all the office staff that they have. Also what about welfare payments ? All we hear about is Social Security and Veterns benifits not getting paid, Just a thought.

Wayne,
Do you really thing many, on this site, really care if benefits are paid?
Do you really think that many, on this site, care if welfare recipients get their checks?
Bad place to ask the question.
As for our representatives or their staffs getting paid. Since the elderly and the veterans are expected to feel the pain, so should those who are holding our nation hostage.

Wayne, Bea's right. For the Tea Party types, seeing the poor in pain will be a side benefit of running our country off the rails.

I am not saying the welfare check should be paid, my point was that those check also should be delayed. I am not a Tea party type, I just want all the people that have any type of goverment money due them be in the same boat. The first to not get paid should be the Senate and Congress, they are not doing the job they were sent to Washington to do and if I don't do my job, I don't get paid why should they.

Sell some gold at fort knox...1600 an ounce isn't a bad price.buy it back if or when comes down in price....Remember obama sold off some of the oil reserves...Gas is still the same price..

Charlie,
Again, making things up. Where do the Tea Party people say they want people in pain? Can you give us your source? That is just stupid. They might not agree with the amounts paid, or paying for things like free cell phones, or paying kids to learn how to shop, but to say they want people to be in pain, that's a lie.

They want reform. You always hear politicians say get rid of the waste and abuse, but they never do. Don't you think it's about time they really do?

The "making it up" line grew old a long, long time ago. Can you find another?

Bea, sure. Lets try "don't lie".

Wayne,
"Amazing that with all the new Tea Party members of Congress, this was purposed by a Dem.

CNN: Senators say Congress, president should 'feel the pain' of a shutdown
Two Senate Democrats said Thursday that if a standoff over government spending leads to a government shutdown, politicians should "feel the pain" too. "We have to take steps to make sure that elected officials here are living by the same rules as everyone else," Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pennsylvania, said during a news conference on Thursday. Casey was joined by fellow Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer of California in introducing a bill that would withhold pay for members of Congress and the President if a government shutdown were to happen.

By: CNN's Greg Clary

John, let's try avoiding confrontation by using a worn out line that is akin to a child arguing in a school yard.
You may find taking everything literal as a way to accuse others of lying, but most intelligent people understand that paraphrasing or sarcasm isn't lying.

Bea,
Sarcasm or demonizing?

Some Republicans viewed Pell grants -- financial aid for college students -- as "welfare" and wanted more radical cuts to this vital education program. This from a party still protecting special tax breaks for billionaires and Big Oil companies.

Now, Boehner is re-writing his bill to make it even more extreme with a vote set for TODAY.

Democrats stood strong against the Republican plan to slash education, Medicare and Social Security benefits while protecting tax breaks for billionaires and Big Oil.

Who will feel the pain if Boehner's bill passes?

Bea,
While Pell "grants" might be worthy, they are welfare. It is money taken from one group (taxpayers) and given to others. And the money is not based on academic merit, but on income. It is an income transfer.

Again, you may feel it is a worthy social policy, not arguing that, but it is welfare just the same as Ethanol subsidies are a form of welfare for corporations and some farmers. Just depends on who you want getting the money if it is called a deserved grant or welfare.

And tax breaks for billionaires and big oil should be ended, along with all exemptions, credits, subsidies and deductions. Also, everyone with earned income should pay at least some tax

Bea,

I think those that have earned their billions should be able to keep the money that they have. What you don't hear is the democrats saying that welfare and food stamps along with medicaid be slashed. What about foreign aid being cut. Americans are getting tired of feeding and giving medical care to other countries when those inside our borders go without. I do not consider this a political problem, it is a american problem and americans need to solve it regaurdless of which 'side of the isle" they ae on. Just get this done.

"Taxpayers", I'm a Taxpayer. I receive pell grants. Does that make me some kind of leach on the system John? Are there people out there that work the system and get more than their fair share? Hell yes there are. The majority of those taking more than their fair share are making more money in one year than you, me, your kids, my kids and both of our grand kids will make in a lifetime. So should I feel guilty because I apply for and receive pell grants while enrolled as a full time student? I don't feel on ounce of guilt.

Jeremiah,
Read what I said again. I did not say Pell grants were bad, but they are a form of middle class welfare. You are getting money from others. Did you earn it? No. You asked for it and based on your income the government gave it to you.

How do you define "welfare"?

Jeremiah, only the rich should go to college. The politically pure believe it's better for our nation to keep the "job creators" wealthy.

John, I received about $10k total in grants going to college. This year alone I paid nearly three times that amount in taxes, if not more. Were those grants "welfare" or were they a smart investment?

Charlie,
What is the difference between a Pell grant and a welfare payment? Did you earn your Pell grant? No. You applied for the grant based on need, very much like what we traditionally think of as welfare. After review, you were given the "grant", based on need determined by the government.

The fact you can now pay about $30,000 a year in taxes is nice, but does not change the fact you received a form of welfare in the past.

John, the whole point in investing in education and training- it pays off by producing productive citizens. You can slap whatever label you care to onto it; none-the-less it is an investment, not money down a hole. As Charlie points out, the investment paid off!

That's a difference in perspective. You can look at grants and welfare as an investment in the future of our country or you can look at as feeding leaches. I know our country prospers from lending a helping hand to the poor. What would the non- job creators do in the Tea types ideal world? Would we get a goose on Christmas?

Charlie,
I am not saying either one is good or bad. I am just saying they are basically the same. But have you noticed that middle class people really hate being told they get welfare? Grants sound so much better.

CM,
Pell grants or traditional welfare are a roll of the dice. Some times the money pays off. Other times, it is wasted. I know people that got off welfare and did OK. I know people who went to college and are doing life at Attica.

Pell grants? That's what gets brought up?

The day we stop giving oil companies billions of dollars while they butcher us at the pump, then talk about Pell grants.

These are the type of conversations that further illustrate why this country has become a mess.

We need to cut spending and force Congress to balance the budget every year.That's not radical, it's responsible.

That said, this whole "shut it down" rhetoric is just childish. I refuse to watch my grandparents not get paid, or friends that are serving in a war zone for my country go without because of this.

It's time to grow up.

Phil, after this debt debate is all done, I can't wait to see what the Tea types deem "waste" and welfare. There is one thing I know for certain, the American people will not stand for cuts. They talk about it, stare mindlessly at the Fox News and give each other high fives at the mear thought of slapping down some welfare mom. But at the end of the day if these cuts are considered too deep and unbalanced, all involved are dead meat come election time. Americans like to talk about cuts but, really don't have the stomach for them.

Well I'll tell you this...end the two wars that we have going on and pull out of the dozens of other countries where we are policing and you'll find quite a bit of money.

Stop the subsidies to oil, giving away billions to corporate america.

Phil, now your being silly trying to fight the the military complex. Besides, thats were the "job creators" make their money. It's much easier to blame our problems on old people, children, college kids and welfare moms. If all else fails, they always have the Mexicans.

Charlie is right to a point. Everyone wants cuts, just not to their program or handout. Some want Medicare cut, but not free money for their kids to go to college. Some want Social Security cut, but not the bloated military (especially if they have a job related to that bloated military). Others, like Phil, want to end corporate welfare while others want to end middle class giveaways.

This goes down all the way to our local level. Cut his, not mine.

You can make a case for or against any program. But sooner or later, rating services will downgrade us and not because of the debt limit, but because of our debt. Then when interest rates go up people might actually accept what is needed.

Phil and Charlie, you know the drill. Rile up the middle class over non-issues, get them to fight over the scraps (and by scraps I don't mean handouts, I mean real available jobs and dollars) while the 'job creators' bolster their bank accounts.

Every news story I've read over the past month having to do with the debt ceiling that involved comments from average citizens reinforced my belief that average citizens don't have a clue what the debt ceiling is. Trust me folks, Pell grants are in order.

Furthermore, somehow this debate has become about spending cuts instead of paying the bills for stuff we already bought. Fine, you want spending cuts? Create a better budget instead of letting the fringe element of one party draw up something so egregious that we're stuck passing contingency plans.

Also, I'd like to see my President man the f#$k up here. He brought $4 Trillion in budget cuts to the table and the Republicans told him to go to hell, meanwhile their plan had barely half that dollar amount. President Obama should reintroduce his plan and tell congress to pass it with no amendments and threaten to veto any thing else.

Why? Because the Republicans $2 Trillion dollar plan only gets the bills paid. They've caused so much damage by dragging this out, that anything less than the President's $4 trillion plan will most likely still cause America's credit rating to be lowered.

This affects YOU. If you don't understand anything else about this fiasco, understand this: If America loses its AAA credit rating, you will be affected financially.

Do you have an adjustable rate mortgage? The rate will go up.

Shopping for a car? Better buy it today or you're going to pay more in interest.

How's your credit? Perfect? So-so? Don't expect to be able to borrow if you don't have a credit score over 750 or so.

Looking to send your kid to college? Those loans are going to be very expensive come Wednesday.

Are you willing to take out a second mortgage on your house to pay for your child's school? If you are, that's great, but the bank might not be all that interested in giving you the money no matter how much equity you have.

Our dollar will be devalued and the price of goods will increase. Do you think Exxon is going to subsidize your grocery bill?

Congressman Eric Cantor has hedged against the value of the dollar. He stands to make MILLIONS OF DOLLARS if he can force a stalemate or even get a sub par 'compromise' plan passed. Why isn't he in jail instead of being one of the lead 'negotiators?'

Wake up people. This isn't an Dem vs. Repub. argument. It's not a fight over principle or for the soul of the American people. This is YOUR financial future and it's being determined by 536 people in Washington, roughly half of whom don't even understand what they're voting on.

John, that's why everything needs to be cut and taxes need to be raised across the board. If it's fair and everyone feels pain, a big deal will be accepted by the public. If you leave one group untouched, the whole thing will collapse.

John, every comment you make is essentially saying pell grants are bad because the people who apply for them did not earn the money and they are just taking a hand out.
I did earn that money John. You don't get the money unless meet attendance requirements. Furthermore check the deans list I've made it the past two semesters.
It may be welfare in your narrow view of society but like Charlie said I agree that pell grants are an investment in the future of our country. I apologize for not being independently wealthy. I also apologize for tying to better my self by utilizing pell grants. Stop trying to make church up your view point own it. You don't like any kind of government handouts. Be it temporary assistance, food stamps, pell grants, etc...