Flat tax would not work because most people in the middle class do not pay much at all in income taxes and the lower class pays nothing, every family in the US has a tax liability over 17000.00 per year so if you are one of the one's that is not paying that much every year in income tax to the government then you are in fact living off of the rich just like most of America. Over taxing the rich is a bad idea because they would leave then who would pay everyone's tax liability? I got an idea lets tax the oil companies who pay nothing in taxes and receive money from the government to fund new endeavours/research.
A flat tax is the only fair way to go no loopholes,and tax benefits as well so all real income is counted. Its about time we pay for all the stuff we expect the goverment to do for us. Its so easy to want all these services when someone else is paying.
Flat tax will not work so the people that can't afford any more still have to pay more so with this theory the poor get poorer, I guess survival of the fitest why not just round up all the weak and unfortunate and dispose of them right haha. Just remember alot of this poorer class is disabled, older and I'm sure alot of veterans!!!
Steve,
If you have no skin in the game, you don't care. When you can get things for free, you do not care how much it cost. "The other guy has more than me, and I want some of it" becomes an entitlement that never, ever, goes away.
Unless everyone has to pay at least a little, we'll never get spending under control.
I can't find a link to confirm this, but I believe the gross income of the bottom 50 percent of wage earners -- people earning less than 33,000 per year, is about $1.2 trillion.
Taxing that income at 15 percent would generate $1.8 billion.
That would do very little to reduce the deficit and such a lot of money out of the economy that would otherwise be spent in local stores.
It's the old cut your nose to spite your face sort of argument.
Sure, it sounds unfair that the bottom 50 percent pay little or nothing in taxes, but they don't have much to contribute to begin with and I can't believe conservatives would argue that we should take productive money out of the economy and give it to the government.
Do away with the federal income tax. This country operated quite well without it until 1913, ( with a few exceptions such as The Civil War). What's important here is to understand that it doesn't really matter who pays how much, but that the government makes the determination. Realize that the true rate of taxation is not how much of your income is taken, but how much the government spends and the interest on the deficits that will have to be paid off someday. Don't forget the resultant inflation which occurs when the Fed prints more money and thereby devalues the dollar so everything costs more and then more consumption (sales) tax is collected. The tail is wagging the dog, because the federal government seizes your money and decides what to spend it on. History shows that since the advent of the Federal Income Tax, the central government has become much larger and more involved in everyone's lives and affairs, hardly the intent of the founders. If we stop feeding the beast, revert most governmental functions to state and local control, the average person will have more of a say in how our money is used. And there'll be a lot less foreign adventures and expenditures and much less corruption.
Howard, in the 1950"s the poor paid about 20% of their earned income to federal taxes. And the country survived.
True, the amount you get is small compared to the total tax base, but everyone has to have a a stake in this. We see what has happened when they don't. The percentage of people who pay nothing has slowly gone up now to near the 50% mark. That means the rest of us have to carry all the bricks. And even if you raise the tax on the rich, the other 50% will want more.
A flat tax is fair. Everyone pays the same amount, on all income. No credits or deductions. No corporate welfare and subsides.
Again, if it is free, I want it. If you have more than me, I want it
I agree with John, everyone needs to pay something, so that we all have skin in the game. I just can't see Americans acceptiing the deep cuts to essential services and the high tax increases it will take to solve the debt problem. If any of this comes to pass I hope Congress increases the budget line for riot gear.
Poor people do pay a lot of taxes. It's called the "scratch-off" tax. I've witnessed it for decades and continue to see it. They feed dollar after dollar into the scratch off machine and then win NOTHING.
All we have to do is stop the 4 or 5 wars we are waging, close bases all over the world, bring our people home (I hated the term "Troop" when I was one and won't use it today), & stop propping up tin-pot dictators with foreign aid (US taxpayer money)and there'll be enough savings to fund Medi-whatever and welfare and unemployment and disability. Then when the dust settles a little, we can start right-sizing the gluttonous besotted fat pig that is our federal government by cleaning out the bank of "executive orders" and applying constitutional rule to the administration of government. Then moving as much authority and responsibility for the expenditure of government funding as possible to the states, and let the states decide who pays what and who gets support and how much. One size does not fit all. No need for riots and violence just a little everyday common sense. Although I'm not so sure sense is all that common.
Howard, I believe your math is off 15% of 1.2 trillion in gross income is more in the range of 180 billion, it's easy to loose track with all of the zeros..... but, then there is the question of the FICA taxes that are supposed to go into the Social Security trust fund as well as state taxes on income, retail sales, corporations, property taxes.
If corporations which our Supreme Court now classifies as having the same rights as a person are taxed at that same rate from dollar one with no loop holes or exceptions and the cap is removed on FICA and everyone, including corporations pay 15% from dollar one on all of their income then the flat tax would be a dream come true.
World of Class Warfare - The Poor's Free Ride Is Over
The government could raise $700 billion by either taking half of everything earned by the bottom 50% or by raising the marginal tax rate on the top two percent.
Thanks, Bea that was funny. Stewart always does a great job of exposing stuidity among the chattering class. I posit that the problem however is SPENDING, not revenue.
A flat income tax would never happen because the tax lawyers, accountants and lobbyists would all be out of a job. The government would also have no way to "control" people's behavior through incentives or disincentives.
Social security is a designed as a flat tax, but it is actually regressive in nature--anyone making more than $106,000/year stops contributing beyond that point. Lifting the cap would generally solve the social security problem. Medicare is a flat tax as there is no limit on applicable wages. Revenue side works ok--no exemptions, no long forms. Medicare spending is another issue though.
Spending run wild is what causes our true problems. Current entitlement programs were originally developed as "safety nets" and not meant to function as the sole means of survival during one's retirement years. They were also developed in an era when the life expectancy was the same as the retirement age. Times have changed--nobody saves for retirement and people live well beyond retirement age. Oh yeah--$2 trillion on wars makes quite a dent too.
Regarding scratch-offs, pull tabs and slot machines--my father always said that they were a tax on stupid people. Full disclosure--I have participated in all three.
Flat tax would not work
Flat tax would not work because most people in the middle class do not pay much at all in income taxes and the lower class pays nothing, every family in the US has a tax liability over 17000.00 per year so if you are one of the one's that is not paying that much every year in income tax to the government then you are in fact living off of the rich just like most of America. Over taxing the rich is a bad idea because they would leave then who would pay everyone's tax liability? I got an idea lets tax the oil companies who pay nothing in taxes and receive money from the government to fund new endeavours/research.
lol shame shame -- for
lol shame shame -- for picking on the oil companies --- you know how much they are hurting --- (but its a good idea)!!!!!!!!!
A flat tax is the only fair
A flat tax is the only fair way to go no loopholes,and tax benefits as well so all real income is counted. Its about time we pay for all the stuff we expect the goverment to do for us. Its so easy to want all these services when someone else is paying.
Flat tax will not work so the
Flat tax will not work so the people that can't afford any more still have to pay more so with this theory the poor get poorer, I guess survival of the fitest why not just round up all the weak and unfortunate and dispose of them right haha. Just remember alot of this poorer class is disabled, older and I'm sure alot of veterans!!!
Steve, If you have no skin in
Steve,
If you have no skin in the game, you don't care. When you can get things for free, you do not care how much it cost. "The other guy has more than me, and I want some of it" becomes an entitlement that never, ever, goes away.
Unless everyone has to pay at least a little, we'll never get spending under control.
I can't find a link to
I can't find a link to confirm this, but I believe the gross income of the bottom 50 percent of wage earners -- people earning less than 33,000 per year, is about $1.2 trillion.
Taxing that income at 15 percent would generate $1.8 billion.
That would do very little to reduce the deficit and such a lot of money out of the economy that would otherwise be spent in local stores.
It's the old cut your nose to spite your face sort of argument.
Sure, it sounds unfair that the bottom 50 percent pay little or nothing in taxes, but they don't have much to contribute to begin with and I can't believe conservatives would argue that we should take productive money out of the economy and give it to the government.
Do away with the federal
Do away with the federal income tax. This country operated quite well without it until 1913, ( with a few exceptions such as The Civil War). What's important here is to understand that it doesn't really matter who pays how much, but that the government makes the determination. Realize that the true rate of taxation is not how much of your income is taken, but how much the government spends and the interest on the deficits that will have to be paid off someday. Don't forget the resultant inflation which occurs when the Fed prints more money and thereby devalues the dollar so everything costs more and then more consumption (sales) tax is collected. The tail is wagging the dog, because the federal government seizes your money and decides what to spend it on. History shows that since the advent of the Federal Income Tax, the central government has become much larger and more involved in everyone's lives and affairs, hardly the intent of the founders. If we stop feeding the beast, revert most governmental functions to state and local control, the average person will have more of a say in how our money is used. And there'll be a lot less foreign adventures and expenditures and much less corruption.
Howard, in the 1950"s the
Howard, in the 1950"s the poor paid about 20% of their earned income to federal taxes. And the country survived.
True, the amount you get is small compared to the total tax base, but everyone has to have a a stake in this. We see what has happened when they don't. The percentage of people who pay nothing has slowly gone up now to near the 50% mark. That means the rest of us have to carry all the bricks. And even if you raise the tax on the rich, the other 50% will want more.
A flat tax is fair. Everyone pays the same amount, on all income. No credits or deductions. No corporate welfare and subsides.
Again, if it is free, I want it. If you have more than me, I want it
I agree with John, everyone
I agree with John, everyone needs to pay something, so that we all have skin in the game. I just can't see Americans acceptiing the deep cuts to essential services and the high tax increases it will take to solve the debt problem. If any of this comes to pass I hope Congress increases the budget line for riot gear.
Poor people do pay a lot of
Poor people do pay a lot of taxes. It's called the "scratch-off" tax. I've witnessed it for decades and continue to see it. They feed dollar after dollar into the scratch off machine and then win NOTHING.
All we have to do is stop the
All we have to do is stop the 4 or 5 wars we are waging, close bases all over the world, bring our people home (I hated the term "Troop" when I was one and won't use it today), & stop propping up tin-pot dictators with foreign aid (US taxpayer money)and there'll be enough savings to fund Medi-whatever and welfare and unemployment and disability. Then when the dust settles a little, we can start right-sizing the gluttonous besotted fat pig that is our federal government by cleaning out the bank of "executive orders" and applying constitutional rule to the administration of government. Then moving as much authority and responsibility for the expenditure of government funding as possible to the states, and let the states decide who pays what and who gets support and how much. One size does not fit all. No need for riots and violence just a little everyday common sense. Although I'm not so sure sense is all that common.
Howard, I believe your math
Howard, I believe your math is off 15% of 1.2 trillion in gross income is more in the range of 180 billion, it's easy to loose track with all of the zeros..... but, then there is the question of the FICA taxes that are supposed to go into the Social Security trust fund as well as state taxes on income, retail sales, corporations, property taxes.
If corporations which our Supreme Court now classifies as having the same rights as a person are taxed at that same rate from dollar one with no loop holes or exceptions and the cap is removed on FICA and everyone, including corporations pay 15% from dollar one on all of their income then the flat tax would be a dream come true.
However, does anyone think that will ever happen?
World of Class Warfare - The
World of Class Warfare - The Poor's Free Ride Is Over
The government could raise $700 billion by either taking half of everything earned by the bottom 50% or by raising the marginal tax rate on the top two percent.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-18-2011/world-of-class-war…
Thanks, Bea that was funny.
Thanks, Bea that was funny. Stewart always does a great job of exposing stuidity among the chattering class. I posit that the problem however is SPENDING, not revenue.
A flat income tax would never
A flat income tax would never happen because the tax lawyers, accountants and lobbyists would all be out of a job. The government would also have no way to "control" people's behavior through incentives or disincentives.
Social security is a designed as a flat tax, but it is actually regressive in nature--anyone making more than $106,000/year stops contributing beyond that point. Lifting the cap would generally solve the social security problem. Medicare is a flat tax as there is no limit on applicable wages. Revenue side works ok--no exemptions, no long forms. Medicare spending is another issue though.
Spending run wild is what causes our true problems. Current entitlement programs were originally developed as "safety nets" and not meant to function as the sole means of survival during one's retirement years. They were also developed in an era when the life expectancy was the same as the retirement age. Times have changed--nobody saves for retirement and people live well beyond retirement age. Oh yeah--$2 trillion on wars makes quite a dent too.
Regarding scratch-offs, pull tabs and slot machines--my father always said that they were a tax on stupid people. Full disclosure--I have participated in all three.
Form a committee to abolish
Form a committee to abolish the present income tax structure, and build a new one from the ground up.
Oh,........no one making over $23,000 dollars a year can be on the committee. Mr. Buffet CAN be a consultant.