Absolutely yes. And the objection from the Seneca's president is a joke. Only hours after state sanctioned casinos were talked about, this guy says the Senecas are ready to "let" Rochester get a casino. How freaking arrogant.
Apparently, Mr. Porter wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants exclusive gambling rights, yet wishes to continue being untaxed. Enough already. If you are a "sovereign nation", provide your own education, roads, health care, etc. If you wish to benefit from the services of NYS, assimilate.
I voted NO. I was shocked to see the overwhelming Yes votes. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised - Batavia's population is mostly seniors and they have nothing else to do.
I guess the State of New York has finally realized that no new businesses want to come to an over-taxed/over-welfared state. So they are looking at gambling as the only way to bring in revenue to the state. WELCOME TO LAS VEGAS EAST.
Bud -
The Seneca's have every right to object. The state made an agreement with them. But like everything else the white-eyes speak with forked tongue.
Bud wrote:
If you are a "sovereign nation", provide your own education, roads, health care, etc. If you wish to benefit from the services of NYS, assimilate."
Can you provide proof that they don't provide education, health care, etc.? I checked their site. Looks like they are paying quite a bit to NYS.
Economic Sovereignty
The Seneca Nation of Indians keeps one interest ahead of all others -- improving the lives of Senecas through economic sovereignty. Today the Seneca economy generates some $1.1 billion annually, employing more than 6,500 members and non-Native Americans, primarily through its burgeoning casino gaming and hospitality ventures, wholesale and retail tobacco manufacturing and sales, and the motor fuel industry.
Harnessing the power of its federally-protected sovereign immunity from taxation, the Seneca Nation has generated significant revenues not only for its members, but has grown into a regional economic powerhouse.2010 has brought new pressures by federal and state governments to current productivity and inhibit future growth in the form of a ban on tobacco shipments via the U.S. Postal Service, and calls to sales tax collections.
Seneca Nation leaders pledge to do everything that can to fight erosion of treaty rights to protect the Seneca economy and its positive impact on the regional and state economy.
Currently, purchasing and hiring done in the Seneca private sector and by Seneca Nation-owned enterprises and government is associated with an estimated $779 million of gross domestic product (GDP) of more than $800 million a year in the Western New York Region and close to $900 million across New York
State.
While not subject to direct taxation by the state, spin-off spending by Senecas and their vendors estimate $50 million in New York sales and excise taxes.
In July 2009, the nation established Seneca Holdings LLC, a private investment vehicle for the Nation to diversify its economy and create wealth for its people by investing in, and buying companies. The Nation plans to allocate $28 million for incremental investments to Seneca Holdings within its first five years.
Economic Highlights:
The Nation’s government employs over 1,300 full-time and 100 part time workers, ranging from teachers and judges, to physicians and engineers. Total Nation payroll is approximately 42 million and vendor outlays are more than $90 million.
The Seneca Business Permit Office tracks 240 unique businesses. Non-Indians working in Indian Territories earned two-thirds of the $94 million in aggregate income. Annually, the Nation and its corporate entities spend more than $90 million with vendors, suppliers and businesses across Western New York.
Its Seneca Gaming Corporation has grown into one of the area’s largest employers, with a staff of over 3,700 at its gaming facilities in Niagara Falls, Salamanca and Buffalo.
In addition to hundreds of union construction jobs created in the last eight years, the Nation has paid New York State and local municipalities more than $475 million in fees in exchange for the exclusive right to offer slot-type games at its casinos.
The Seneca Nation functions as an autonomous, sovereign community, providing its members with a wide range of health, education, recreation, social and public services.
In 2010, the Nation opened new administration buildings at both the Allegany and Cattaraugus territories. The new $30 million complex in Salamanca houses the Nation’s governmental offices, courts, and meeting rooms, and features a Grand Hall and state of the art high technology Council Chambers.
Design of the 90,000-square-foot building incorporates native stone and wood materials for the interior and exterior, blending in with the natural landscape of the Allegany foothills. The new office building is home to 200 Nation employees.
The three-story structure was designed by a Native American owned firm, Two Row Architects from Six Nations, Ontario and Buffalo-based firm Kideney Architects.
A new Cattaraugus territory administration center debuted in May in Irving. The new 21,000-square-foot William Seneca Building is the first phase of a $10 million project that will see the adjacent, former administration building converted and expanded to double its size.
The Nation also recently expanded its capital building and social services operations, with new projects including improvements to roads, sewers, water treatment plants, water-supply facilities, athletic arenas and low-income and senior housing. More than $400 million in projects are current in the development or construction stage.
In response to the September 2009 flood that devastated sections of the Cattaraugus territory and neighboring towns, the Senecas were first responders in rebuilding washed out roads to provide temporary access for stranded residents and supplies.
The Nation is also working to provide an all-encompassing, cultural education experience for its youth that includes Seneca history and traditions. Nation-run education programs run the gamut from pre-school learning and tutoring for school-aged children, to higher education scholarship and mentoring efforts, as well as post-graduation career counseling.
The Seneca Health Department is also key to the fabric of daily life for members. the Cattaraugus Indian Reservation Health Center and the Lionel R. John Heath Center provide comprehensive health maintenance, primary care and referrals. http://www.sni.org/Home.aspx
BTW, I'm still perplexed why gas is 10 cents a gallon higher on an untaxed reservation, than it is in Henrietta. That gas in Henrietta includes 62 cents of tax.
Bud, are you implying that their site is fabricated?
When you have the time, why not read "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles C. Mann. The chapter on The Great Law of Peace is especially interesting. Assimilate? Perhaps we would be better off if our forefathers assimilated into their culture (smaller government, etc.) then trying to force our ways on them.
Bea, I'm stating the obvious. Any organization, company, or government website is going to be biased in its content. It is going to show the better side of things.
Example: A website for the Chamber of commerce in Buffalo or Rochester isn't going to be upfront about the violent citizens that inhabit both cities in large numbers, or the stifling tax system, or the decaying infrastructures. No, they are going to paint a positive reflection of themselves, and entice people with the good information.
And as far as smaller government, bring it on. Andy Cuomo says all the right things, but as of today, NY still has 10,000+ government entities. I don't see all this consolidation that he was talking about.
Allowing casino gambling at the race tracks is not the worst idea to come up, the idea that gaming as an industry will be the ecomonic salvation and replacement for real industry is.
Allowing an exclusive license to any one or any group has proven to be a formula for corruption, cronyism and generaly a bad deal for consumers and taxpayers alike. The original plan for exclusive license of casino gambling was to keep it on the "soveriegn reservations" which morphed into allowing for a special staus to land off the reservations, restrictions on sales of liquor, beer and wine were supposed to enhance local establishments surrounding the casinos, a portion of the reciepts were to be paid back to the host communities.
Look at how giving an exclusive license to the Senaca's to acquire the land and operate their casino that has benefitted the community in Niagara Falls. Most of the area is a wasteland, the colateral damage to the local hospitality trade in the city is the result. Property and violent crime has increased dramatically, property values have dropped along with tax revenues, unemployment the highest in the region, and more people having to rely on government assistance as local resturants, bars, and hotels reduce staff due to a lack of steady trade taken by the full service casino that offers it all.
Casino gambling is a boom or bust industry that gives very little back to the community in relation to the short term or long term gain. However, by allowing the local race tracks to offer the same services locally money stays in the community rather than being exported. Give the tracks casino gambling with licensing that requires that the profits are taxed and kept mainly in the community to pay for the increased need for law enforcement, limit the hotel, food and beverage to enhance local establishments rather than compete with them.
I have no time right now to look it up but.......Isn't there something in The Treaty with the Indians about the State not being allowed to run casinos?? I'm just remembering reading something about that when I was reading the Treaty about the whole cigarette tax thing.
Bea: Today we are in agreement!
"Perhaps we would be better off if our forefathers assimilated into their culture (smaller government, etc.) then trying to force our ways on them."
It's also faulted logic: Indian casinos are doing well, let's build more casinos in the same market and make more money. Duh. If there are a few casinos within an area, they do well. If there are many, some will do well, others will fail. I don't want to spend my tax dollars trying to run the Senecas out of business, that doesn't make sense. The only way to lure gamblers from one casino to another is to spend your profits, either by increasing odds or providing amenities. Those who want to gamble already have places to do it. I don't believe all that many new gamblers will turn up. The pie is roughly the same size, it's about how many pieces you want to cut it into.
Why can't NY find something fresh and creative to get people interested in?
Allowing the track to offer casino gambling is not going to spend the taxpayers dollars, or is this another one of those schemes that relies on public money from a Payment In Lieu OF Taxes (PILOT) granted by one of the IDAs. The fact is the Senaca casinos are already taking the tax dollars in the form of increased law enforcement and public services, as well as the business drawn away from local establishments that have had their incomes reduced as a reult.
As a frequent customer of the Batavia Downs Casino, I have befriended alot of the individuals who work there and gained an insight into their operations. If they are sucessful in changing the NYS Constitution to allow table games, and they come to agreement with the Senecas Indians over their placement, this will increase the attendance and revenue considerabily. Many people are willing to travel to Niagara Falls just to play the card games. Lets face the facts folks; gaming or gambling has always been with us and the local economy has benefited from the resurgence of Batavia Downs.
Having only been to the "Downs" twice, I just want to say, I left both times feeling robbed and screwed. Is that full service? Is there something I missed?
I have been a horseplayer for a long time. Without the "Racino" horse racing in this part of the state would have died. Why not give the tracks full blown casino's, people will just head to Atlantic City or Las Vegas. Keep the money in our state. People are going to gamble one way or another. I say GO FOR IT!
tp.......I don't remember having fun. I just can't see playing against a computer. Whoever programs it, is only going to allow for so many winners. Very much like the scratch off tickets for the lottery. I'd rather see Black Jack and other card games...at least you would stand half a chance to win something. Even so, casino's, racetracks and the like are not in business to make you or I rich. You can bet on that !!!
Absolutely yes. And the
Absolutely yes. And the objection from the Seneca's president is a joke. Only hours after state sanctioned casinos were talked about, this guy says the Senecas are ready to "let" Rochester get a casino. How freaking arrogant.
Apparently, Mr. Porter wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants exclusive gambling rights, yet wishes to continue being untaxed. Enough already. If you are a "sovereign nation", provide your own education, roads, health care, etc. If you wish to benefit from the services of NYS, assimilate.
I voted NO. I was shocked to
I voted NO. I was shocked to see the overwhelming Yes votes. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised - Batavia's population is mostly seniors and they have nothing else to do.
I guess the State of New York has finally realized that no new businesses want to come to an over-taxed/over-welfared state. So they are looking at gambling as the only way to bring in revenue to the state. WELCOME TO LAS VEGAS EAST.
Bud - The Seneca's have every
Bud -
The Seneca's have every right to object. The state made an agreement with them. But like everything else the white-eyes speak with forked tongue.
Bud wrote: If you are a
Bud wrote:
If you are a "sovereign nation", provide your own education, roads, health care, etc. If you wish to benefit from the services of NYS, assimilate."
Can you provide proof that they don't provide education, health care, etc.? I checked their site. Looks like they are paying quite a bit to NYS.
Economic Sovereignty
The Seneca Nation of Indians keeps one interest ahead of all others -- improving the lives of Senecas through economic sovereignty. Today the Seneca economy generates some $1.1 billion annually, employing more than 6,500 members and non-Native Americans, primarily through its burgeoning casino gaming and hospitality ventures, wholesale and retail tobacco manufacturing and sales, and the motor fuel industry.
Harnessing the power of its federally-protected sovereign immunity from taxation, the Seneca Nation has generated significant revenues not only for its members, but has grown into a regional economic powerhouse.2010 has brought new pressures by federal and state governments to current productivity and inhibit future growth in the form of a ban on tobacco shipments via the U.S. Postal Service, and calls to sales tax collections.
Seneca Nation leaders pledge to do everything that can to fight erosion of treaty rights to protect the Seneca economy and its positive impact on the regional and state economy.
Currently, purchasing and hiring done in the Seneca private sector and by Seneca Nation-owned enterprises and government is associated with an estimated $779 million of gross domestic product (GDP) of more than $800 million a year in the Western New York Region and close to $900 million across New York
State.
While not subject to direct taxation by the state, spin-off spending by Senecas and their vendors estimate $50 million in New York sales and excise taxes.
In July 2009, the nation established Seneca Holdings LLC, a private investment vehicle for the Nation to diversify its economy and create wealth for its people by investing in, and buying companies. The Nation plans to allocate $28 million for incremental investments to Seneca Holdings within its first five years.
Economic Highlights:
The Nation’s government employs over 1,300 full-time and 100 part time workers, ranging from teachers and judges, to physicians and engineers. Total Nation payroll is approximately 42 million and vendor outlays are more than $90 million.
The Seneca Business Permit Office tracks 240 unique businesses. Non-Indians working in Indian Territories earned two-thirds of the $94 million in aggregate income. Annually, the Nation and its corporate entities spend more than $90 million with vendors, suppliers and businesses across Western New York.
Its Seneca Gaming Corporation has grown into one of the area’s largest employers, with a staff of over 3,700 at its gaming facilities in Niagara Falls, Salamanca and Buffalo.
In addition to hundreds of union construction jobs created in the last eight years, the Nation has paid New York State and local municipalities more than $475 million in fees in exchange for the exclusive right to offer slot-type games at its casinos.
The Seneca Nation functions as an autonomous, sovereign community, providing its members with a wide range of health, education, recreation, social and public services.
In 2010, the Nation opened new administration buildings at both the Allegany and Cattaraugus territories. The new $30 million complex in Salamanca houses the Nation’s governmental offices, courts, and meeting rooms, and features a Grand Hall and state of the art high technology Council Chambers.
Design of the 90,000-square-foot building incorporates native stone and wood materials for the interior and exterior, blending in with the natural landscape of the Allegany foothills. The new office building is home to 200 Nation employees.
The three-story structure was designed by a Native American owned firm, Two Row Architects from Six Nations, Ontario and Buffalo-based firm Kideney Architects.
A new Cattaraugus territory administration center debuted in May in Irving. The new 21,000-square-foot William Seneca Building is the first phase of a $10 million project that will see the adjacent, former administration building converted and expanded to double its size.
The Nation also recently expanded its capital building and social services operations, with new projects including improvements to roads, sewers, water treatment plants, water-supply facilities, athletic arenas and low-income and senior housing. More than $400 million in projects are current in the development or construction stage.
In response to the September 2009 flood that devastated sections of the Cattaraugus territory and neighboring towns, the Senecas were first responders in rebuilding washed out roads to provide temporary access for stranded residents and supplies.
The Nation is also working to provide an all-encompassing, cultural education experience for its youth that includes Seneca history and traditions. Nation-run education programs run the gamut from pre-school learning and tutoring for school-aged children, to higher education scholarship and mentoring efforts, as well as post-graduation career counseling.
The Seneca Health Department is also key to the fabric of daily life for members. the Cattaraugus Indian Reservation Health Center and the Lionel R. John Heath Center provide comprehensive health maintenance, primary care and referrals.
http://www.sni.org/Home.aspx
Bea wrote "I checked their
Bea wrote "I checked their site. Looks like they are paying quite a bit to NYS."
Well, an unbiased website like that must be gospel truth. Let's just continue the status quo, it's working so well.
BTW, I'm still perplexed why
BTW, I'm still perplexed why gas is 10 cents a gallon higher on an untaxed reservation, than it is in Henrietta. That gas in Henrietta includes 62 cents of tax.
Bud, are you implying that
Bud, are you implying that their site is fabricated?
When you have the time, why not read "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles C. Mann. The chapter on The Great Law of Peace is especially interesting. Assimilate? Perhaps we would be better off if our forefathers assimilated into their culture (smaller government, etc.) then trying to force our ways on them.
Bea, I'm stating the obvious.
Bea, I'm stating the obvious. Any organization, company, or government website is going to be biased in its content. It is going to show the better side of things.
Example: A website for the Chamber of commerce in Buffalo or Rochester isn't going to be upfront about the violent citizens that inhabit both cities in large numbers, or the stifling tax system, or the decaying infrastructures. No, they are going to paint a positive reflection of themselves, and entice people with the good information.
And as far as smaller government, bring it on. Andy Cuomo says all the right things, but as of today, NY still has 10,000+ government entities. I don't see all this consolidation that he was talking about.
Allowing casino gambling at
Allowing casino gambling at the race tracks is not the worst idea to come up, the idea that gaming as an industry will be the ecomonic salvation and replacement for real industry is.
Allowing an exclusive license to any one or any group has proven to be a formula for corruption, cronyism and generaly a bad deal for consumers and taxpayers alike. The original plan for exclusive license of casino gambling was to keep it on the "soveriegn reservations" which morphed into allowing for a special staus to land off the reservations, restrictions on sales of liquor, beer and wine were supposed to enhance local establishments surrounding the casinos, a portion of the reciepts were to be paid back to the host communities.
Look at how giving an exclusive license to the Senaca's to acquire the land and operate their casino that has benefitted the community in Niagara Falls. Most of the area is a wasteland, the colateral damage to the local hospitality trade in the city is the result. Property and violent crime has increased dramatically, property values have dropped along with tax revenues, unemployment the highest in the region, and more people having to rely on government assistance as local resturants, bars, and hotels reduce staff due to a lack of steady trade taken by the full service casino that offers it all.
Casino gambling is a boom or bust industry that gives very little back to the community in relation to the short term or long term gain. However, by allowing the local race tracks to offer the same services locally money stays in the community rather than being exported. Give the tracks casino gambling with licensing that requires that the profits are taxed and kept mainly in the community to pay for the increased need for law enforcement, limit the hotel, food and beverage to enhance local establishments rather than compete with them.
I have no time right now to
I have no time right now to look it up but.......Isn't there something in The Treaty with the Indians about the State not being allowed to run casinos?? I'm just remembering reading something about that when I was reading the Treaty about the whole cigarette tax thing.
Bea: Today we are in
Bea: Today we are in agreement!
"Perhaps we would be better off if our forefathers assimilated into their culture (smaller government, etc.) then trying to force our ways on them."
...As in gas pumps with
...As in gas pumps with attendants or hotel suites with hookers?
It's also faulted logic:
It's also faulted logic: Indian casinos are doing well, let's build more casinos in the same market and make more money. Duh. If there are a few casinos within an area, they do well. If there are many, some will do well, others will fail. I don't want to spend my tax dollars trying to run the Senecas out of business, that doesn't make sense. The only way to lure gamblers from one casino to another is to spend your profits, either by increasing odds or providing amenities. Those who want to gamble already have places to do it. I don't believe all that many new gamblers will turn up. The pie is roughly the same size, it's about how many pieces you want to cut it into.
Why can't NY find something fresh and creative to get people interested in?
Allowing the track to offer
Allowing the track to offer casino gambling is not going to spend the taxpayers dollars, or is this another one of those schemes that relies on public money from a Payment In Lieu OF Taxes (PILOT) granted by one of the IDAs. The fact is the Senaca casinos are already taking the tax dollars in the form of increased law enforcement and public services, as well as the business drawn away from local establishments that have had their incomes reduced as a reult.
As a frequent customer of the
As a frequent customer of the Batavia Downs Casino, I have befriended alot of the individuals who work there and gained an insight into their operations. If they are sucessful in changing the NYS Constitution to allow table games, and they come to agreement with the Senecas Indians over their placement, this will increase the attendance and revenue considerabily. Many people are willing to travel to Niagara Falls just to play the card games. Lets face the facts folks; gaming or gambling has always been with us and the local economy has benefited from the resurgence of Batavia Downs.
Having only been to the
Having only been to the "Downs" twice, I just want to say, I left both times feeling robbed and screwed. Is that full service? Is there something I missed?
I have been a horseplayer for
I have been a horseplayer for a long time. Without the "Racino" horse racing in this part of the state would have died. Why not give the tracks full blown casino's, people will just head to Atlantic City or Las Vegas. Keep the money in our state. People are going to gamble one way or another. I say GO FOR IT!
To me it makes no sense that
To me it makes no sense that Batavia Downs can't offer poker and black jack.
But then to me, it doesn't make any sense why somebody can't just open a card room on Main Street.
Why is the government's business what I or you do with our money?
But did you have fun?
But did you have fun?
Howard, you can open a card
Howard, you can open a card room on Main Street you just can't play for money....
Ed and Howard, you can open a
Ed and Howard, you can open a card room on Main Street and you can play for money, you just can't have a rake
;)
tp.......I don't remember
tp.......I don't remember having fun. I just can't see playing against a computer. Whoever programs it, is only going to allow for so many winners. Very much like the scratch off tickets for the lottery. I'd rather see Black Jack and other card games...at least you would stand half a chance to win something. Even so, casino's, racetracks and the like are not in business to make you or I rich. You can bet on that !!!