As an outside observer that has been here virtually the entire life of this "story", I can say my honest oppinion is that if they cancel any more events the student population will go nuts.
The school has been cancelling tailgaiting events, sponsorships and traditions left and right already. Somehow they havent touched 'Paternoville' yet.
Message sent to you safely from The Penn Stater Hotel (which, dont let them fool you on the television, IS very much on campus, and roughly a 30 second drive from Beaver Stadium)
It's not the players fault Penn State is in this mess! They've worked hard and should be able to play. I am concerned though, that there will be a lot of chaos from the stands. It might get dangerous to be at those games!
The season should go on. The current team members had nothing to do with this so why should there be group punishment?
And if any current student acts up and causes problems, throw them out of the college. College admission is and attendance is voluntary.
Penn State probably dresses 70+ players, most on scholarship. Canceling the season may make a statement, but it punishes the players - the players who were not responsible for buggering 10 year old little boys.
Firing Joe Paterno and removing the university administration who had knowledge of the atrocities yet did nothing about it is appropriate. (Now, if only the Catholic Church did the same...)
This has nothing to do with the University receiving millions in admission fees; parking; concessions; etc. at a time when their head coach and the president of the university are fired; an assistant coach is a key witness to the rape of a child; a district attorney's death is under investigation; the possibility of a massive cover up for the good of the game; and "outraged" students are rioting as they forget, by the grace of good luck, one of those young boys could have been a brother?
Wow, the majority sees nothing wrong with continuing the games.
The next three games should be cancelled. No opportunity for a bowl game bid.
Right now the most important thing this university should focus on is cleaning thier house, their name and making restitution to the young men who were scarred for life.
That's like kicking a kid out of school because their parents knocked out the principal 10 years ago, it doesn't make sense.
These students have nothing to do with the incredibly poor handling of criminal information their administration and coach botched. Should the school be fined? Lose it's TV rights or something for a time? Sure. Send a message to their wallets, but don't prevent these young adults from completing their careers.
If it were just a matter of the molestation issue and how it was handled, I would say that has little to do with football on the field. But given the conduct of the students the other night, I have little sympathy for Penn State and wouldn't be bothered at all by seeing this season and next cancelled.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I actually agree with Phil on this, Bea. There are other ways to punish the university and those involved, but to cancel the rest of the season punishes those who were not involved. It seems to me, too, that the leadership that is left needs to take charge of the situation on campus and lead the kids to help them learn about the implications of their behaviors and how to handel life, accept responsibility for their actions.
If there is anyone left on staff that was involved then they need to go; at least be suspended until this is sorted out.
As Howard pointed out the action of the students leads me to feel that the season should be cancelled as well. Also I find it hard to believe that everyone in the footbal program was ignorant. Already they have proven that there was some level of cover up and hiding of the facts for the sake of the football program, if like any other business or organization there was definately alot of rumored things whispered about by everyone in the staff and faculty as well as the football program. Close it down, clean house and try again next year.
I love Phil's metaphor for this.... He said: "That's like kicking a kid out of school because their parents knocked out the principal 10 years ago, it doesn't make sense."
Well if you think about it,it makes perfect sense... if the parents knocked out the principal to keep their kid in the school and at a passing level then he would be kicked out of school, probably moved somewhere else and re-evaluated for his actual level of learning. Keeping him there where the staff know what his parents are capable of if things dont go their way, just doesnt seem like a smart choice for the child or the rest of the faculty. Poor choice of examples.
In a private conversation with a school official his reasoning for the Joe Paterno riot the other night was "if you didnt grow up here, werent a four year undergrad, and have never been in Beaver Stadium with 110,000 of your closest friends: YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND" which makes sense to me. they are intensely loyal supporters of their team here. RVs show up a full week early laden with Alumni coming to see games and just be around the Penn State campus.
Making football and 'tradition' and whatever else more important than the children who were raped by Sandusky is the root of this problem.
Some of you need to spend a minute thinking about that ten-year old boy being anally raped in the locker room. Go ahead, picture it, mull it the f--k over. No, really imagine it, every disgusting detail.
Now tell me that it matters one little bit that the players get to play this weekend or ever again.
From the top down, Penn State engaged in a systemic cover-up of one of the most heinous crimes a human being can commit, not once, not twice, but in MULTIPLE INSTANCES. They should be barred from the NCAA for at least this year. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
...Actually they should assemble all of the endowments, collateralize the athletic department properties and assets and distribute the combined sum to each of the victims.
By the way, has the report on "pimping out boys" to rich donors been mentioned?
This is a culture of denial desperately in need of a reality check.
"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" Gen 18:23.
Jim, with all due respect...
""if you didnt grow up here, werent a four year undergrad, and have never been in Beaver Stadium with 110,000 of your closest friends: YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND" "
Oh, but we do understand. We understand that the raping of young boys and the way this was handled is secondary to having 110,000 of your closest friends at a football game.
I've been to College Station (home of Texas A & M) a few days before their big game. I saw the ferver, enthusiasm, and excitement of attending the game with thousands of close friends. I've been to Nebraska where the Interstate (yes, the interstate)is shut down to through traffic so that their football fans could get to the game. Basically, a long, long driveway to the stadium.
Phil and Jen - you both have young children. God forbid this happens to either of you. God forbid you might have to look to the authorities of an institution that felt their football program was far more important than the safety of your children. God forbid that you walk into brick walls when you realize that "you wouldn't understand" that it is more important to continue garnering the millions from a game than working with you and your family as you suffer that trauma.
Taking away three games is a handslap. How many of those current 70 players were out there protesting? You say they aren't involved, if they were out there then they certainly are involved. They made a decision to be with their closest friends and admiring fans and the hell with the plight of these young boys.
I'm sorry Kyle, I should have added the word "today", or maybe "Not connected" which I thought would be implied and not the contorted correlation that your mind derived from it. So sure, by your standard, it does, but I wasn't creating a dramatic novella for a metaphor, so...good for you.
I'm sorry, but my having young children has little to do with this. I do not condone this horrific act, nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action, but I do not see how taking away games from a group of Student-Athletes that have nothing to do with these events satisfies anything.
Bea, you said you were there. you were not A PART of the school. The students riot because they ARE the school "We are Penn State, They Aren't" is byfar my favorite sign I have seen on campus thusfar. I deffinetely dont support the accusations or the coverup, but cancelling games would punish the STUDENTS way more than the administration. Yeah the administration is humiliated by the cancellation, and yeah they would stand to lose millions in sponsorships (i have first hand knowledge of this) tv deals concessions parking etc. etc. but the students lose out way more. They lose the single, unifying thing that this campus has right now. Yeah the football program may have meant more to the administration than risking their reputation but the STUDENTS (i keep emphasizing this because they are the reason this school exists, NOT Joe Paterno, NOT the football program) lose out on their pride. I hope they play the game tommorow. I hope Penn State wins. I hope the students act in a responsible manner, and I hope the victims get the justice they deserve.
And Im not just talking about the 80 somethings students on Penn State's roster this weekend. Im talking the 40,000 undergrads on campus, the graduate students, the countless alumni and the overall Penn State family that has never been a part of the football program or school administration.
Well juding from the news releases today, The college wont have much choice in losing the sponsorships as the sponsors pull themselves from this and head for the hills. I have to go with Bea on this, the admin put everything else above the welfare and abuse of these children. As far as I'm concerned if the closed the school down and sent everyone to other PA Colleges that would be fine.
I hate the mentality of alumni and college students that if they get enough of them together they think they can do whatever they want with no repercussions for their actions. Maybe a dose of the real world is what they need. I say kill the program and let them read Chris' rant which also hits the nail on the head.
I cant believe the same people who would crucify a parent for spanking a child can be so glib about defending a football program over the coverup and raping of children. Rather sad.
Well I just wandered over to the Times site to read the article. Interesting to say the least I have to copy and paste one persons comments here just to support the point that Bea Chris and I are trying to make.... Here it is:
"While we are providing our children’s programming as scheduled, The Second Mile has decided, out of respect and compassion for all impacted by the allegations from the Attorney General’s office, to postpone The Second Mile’s Reverse Drawing, which was to be held November 11, 2011. In past years, this has been a fun-filled and exciting evening, and we cannot imagine holding this event in the wake of the recent allegations, which have brought shock, sadness and concern to all associated with The Second Mile organization."
This is from the website of The Second Mile, the organization from which Jerry Sandusky drew his children victims. For the same reasons Second Mile has cited, Penn State should have the decency to cancel Saturday's football game, to cancel the rest of the season.
To those who think this would unfairly punish students and the athletes: let the students and the athletes learn a first-hand lesson in ethics and citizenship: you do not stand by and do nothing in the face of unspeakable harm to a child. If you are part of an institution that does this, you will suffer the consequences visited upon your institution. That's what being a part of any group means. The lesson may hurt. (But think of what those children endured.) This evil cannot be undone but Penn State should begin to atone. Then begin to find ways to help those victims heal."
The best rehabilitation for a convicted pedophile and deterrent for a prospective ones is a determinate sentence of a red hot fireplace poker inserted ( use your imagination) until the licentious abomination chokes on it.
For the record, when I lived in Pennsylvania, I did take classes from Penn State at our on site campus in Great Valley. So, you see, I do have a connection to the school.
Anyone who has children has to think long and hard about how they would like this handled if they were suddenly put into this situation.
These young boys waited for someone to protect them. Who better than Paterno to be the hero? He fell short of his responsibility. Those who still stand behind Paterno because he WON games, fail to see the big picture. He looked out for his own best interest. His lack of concern for the safety of those young boys wipes out any good that he may have accomplished. Watching students protest his firing because they idolized him was sickening.
Those who still stand behind Penn State because the school gives them the opportunity to spend a Saturday afternoon with 110,000 friends fail to see the big picture.
Part of Penn State's greatness, as an institution of higher learning, is teaching leadership. In this case, their own leadership failed. That is the reality.
I understand that advertising dollars are dropping. What does that tell you? Even big business doesn't want to be associated with the stench eminating from Penn State right now.
They aren't relating that to what happen 10 years ago. They are in the present time.
Penn State had an opportunity to do the right thing and the mighty dollar got in the way.
There is too much money to be made on a Saturday even if advertising dollars shrink.
Like it or not, those 70 young players will always be associated with this scandal. It will follow them. Their resume' will always be a reminder. They will be known as the men who played for hollow glory and the cheers of fans who prefer not to think about the young boys who's career paths may never be fulfilled because of Sandusky, Paterno, and the leadership at Penn State.
Phil wrote:
"I'm sorry, but my having young children has little to do with this. I do not condone this horrific act, nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action, but I do not see how taking away games from a group of Student-Athletes that have nothing to do with these events satisfies anything."
Having young children has EVERYTHING to do with this. They will not always be under your eye and in your care. The people you place your trust when it comes to your children is the essence of this.
"...nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action...."
Swift action. Ten years later is swift action?
Think of the children that could have been saved from Sandusky if Penn State actually did take swift action. Nice of you not to berate them.
Taking the games away from the students-athletes can be considered payment overdue.
Bea I was not saying anything about where you did or did not go to school. You clearly refrenced being in Texas for a game and then tried to relate that to being a member of the school or even the community. You were merely an observer. That is completely misguided. So what if you experienced the "fervor"? It is not up for the rest of the nation to dictate what this school does. You are all confusing the media and what they propose, suppose, assume, indicate, or put forth as solutions to be whats best for all the parties involved. Arent we a nation that looks out for the good of as many as possible? Yeah bad things happen, the entire community is in shock about it. The resume's of these players will be MORE affected by cancelling the season. Think about it. Instead of, "Yeah, we had problems, but we pushed through them and became better people/leaders/men/women/students." there will be "Yeah, we had problems, but instead of overcoming those problems we just hung our heads and walked home."
Leaders dont just let the problems they encounter get the best of them. They fix them, and learn from them, move on, then teach others how to avoide those problems.
It occurred to me after I posted earlier that if we were talking about paying players or cheating there would be no question that the season would be over, as well as the next regardless od whether current players were involved or not. Given the truly horrific nature of the act & the systemic over up then it seems to me that at least the same consequences, if not MORE, should apply. I am with you on this, Bea.
Regardless of the flip I have thought that the behavior of those involved & the student body have been disgusting & I excusable.
P.s. Howard, is there a The Batavian app for my iPhone yet?
There was no cover-up in the true sense of the word. This has been a 3 year investigation, which occured AFTER an internal investigation. This is not news, this is olds. If need be I will take a camera and go interview students myself exclusively for the batavian. McQueary testified over 18 months ago. Last I checked that sort of thing is quite public information. It was even in the Collegian (Penn States student-run daily) over a year ago with lots of details on the case. The cover-up everyone keeps throwing around was more of an aknowledgement of problems that was in a way simply not spoken about outloud.
The riots have nothing to do with the case. They have everything to do with the way the Board of Trustees discarded a man who has dedicated most of his (now-nearing the end) adult life to their school (P.S Joe paterno didnt even go to school here, he graduated from Brown.... THATS how enticing the Penn State way of life is).
Sandusky (if found guilty) is a dispicable person, there is no denying that. McQueary (not facing any criminal charges as far as I know) did what he could but you have to keep in mind the pressure he would be put under. He told JoePa knowing he could have easily lost his job, be blacklisted etc. etc.. I bet before the end of this we find out that half of the B.O.T had knowledge and will subsequently resign/face charges.
So just to be clear...and with the vast assumption that it was the football team acting a fool the other nigh and no one else....you're saying that because the University and its officials made a mistake, the student athletes should be punished?
I need to understand this. A group of young athletes, that in many cases were between the ages of 5 -7 when these events occurred should be held accountable for the actions of adults they didn't know at the time?
I can't stand this. What happened makes me sick inside. People who hurt children are the lowest form of scum there are in my book. Yet this punish all mentality is nothing more than an overreaction of personal anger.
Sorry to hear you switched your mind, Jennifer. You're logic earlier was strong, you're recent comparison is not. "It occurred to me after I posted earlier that if we were talking about paying players or cheating there would be no question that the season would be over, as well as the next regardless od whether current players were involved or not." You're wrong, a season would not be cancelled for this. The school would be fined, they might lose a Bowl spot, and TV rights, but they would not cancel games.
Waffle. Well thanks for the challenge, Phil. I was going on, apparently poor, memory. I can't find anything to support what I said, but do find information supporting what you said. I also found support for vacating wins. I have to go what is on the "books", so to speak. It seems to me, though, that the entire thing is fishy and the students' response is definitely inappropriate. I really don't care if he is an icon...allowing Sandusky to continue to coach makes those above him (above Sandusky) culpable.
James you are dead wrong on the cover-up...... there was definately a cover up otherwise why would the administrators be arrested, look at this excerpt from a local newspaper down there...
McQueary told Paterno about the incident the next day, and the coach notified Curley and Schultz, who in turn notified Spanier. Curley and Schultz have been charged with perjury and failure to report the incident to authorities, as required by state law.
So tell me again if there was no cover up how two administrators get arrested for perjury and failure to report an incident? Sounds like a cover up to me especially when even after their knowledge of this Sandusky is still allowed to use the locker-rooms and facilities there at the college. Even the breaking headlines screamed cover up not unlike what the catholic church did with offending priests.
Lets get back to the real world here, it was covered up and swept under the rug hoping it would pass quietly.
Hmmmm Phil lets wait and see....according to news police are in the process of identifying and arresting rioters based on video evidence. Lets see how many turn out to be football players and/or boosters. Then lets see what happens to the footbal program. With all the knowledge of what was happening floating around it seems to me there will be a few more people resigning and or being removed. After all the sin of omission is still a sin just because you dont acknowledge something happening, doesn't make it not happen and if you are responsible to report or do something about the issue, your responsibility isn't alleviated because you choose to ignore it.
The criminal actions of Jerry Sandusky have been know since the late 90's and were the probably the reason he retired and never had anothe coaching position. What is unfolding is more and more like a conspiracy that included the who's who of the Penn administration and the local D.A.'s office at a minimum. It beggers the imagination that the witness to the criminal acts of sodomizing children did not intervene and go immiediadtly to the police. If Penn State's football program is cancelled it is the direct result of the mis-conduct on the part of Joe Paterno and the those who turned a blind eye to what was going on in there house under their noses. Let those on scholarships remain to finish their degrees but kill the football program for the next several seasons and bring it back after the whole episode and the guilty are totally exposed.
Jim writes:
"McQueary (not facing any criminal charges as far as I know) did what he could but you have to keep in mind the pressure he would be put under. He told JoePa knowing he could have easily lost his job, be blacklisted etc. etc.. I bet before the end of this we find out that half of the B.O.T had knowledge and will subsequently resign/face charges."
Most likely he has whistle blower status, which hardly makes him the hero of the day.
He "did what he could"....he walked in on a boy being raped and turned around and left.
We HAVE to keep in mind the PRESSURE he would be under?
We are REMINDED that his lack of action helped destroy a young boy.
Remember him?
No one can argue that Paterno was a great coach. Is that more important than being a caring, concerned human being? His responsibility wasn't to McQueary or Sandusky but to the young boy raped by a member of his staff.
Everyone of them, and, yes, most likely all of the B.O.T. acted in their own best interest and in their perception of what was best for Penn St.'s football team.
Someone mused, "what would Bobby Knight do?". The answer was he would be up for manslaughter charges, because the only way Sandusky could survive was if Knight slipped and missed the final blow. While not condoning taking the law into one's hands, it is exactly what one would expect if one encountered a like situation.
You don't just walk away and ponder your own future. Oh wait, he was a Penn State alumni; a football player and a coach...
it appears that is all that is needed for misplaced sympathy.
Well, sitting in the Penn Stater Hotel lobby I am watching hundreds (literally) hundreds of alumni of both Nebraska and Penn State discuss this whole thing.
Im glad they all have level heads about what happened. Many are indeed quite angry at Sandusky, Mcqueary, the AD and the B.O.T, and to a lesser degree JoePa but they all agree on one thing: Cancelling this season or any other season is a blow that the UNIVERSITY and its STUDENTS would never recover from and is an undue punishment on the student body and alumni associations. They ALL have blue ribbons on supporting the victims, the stadium will be "Blue-Out" instead of the traditional "White-out" that penn state does in order to honor those victims. I watched countless candle light vigils held by STUDENTS last night and the night before, almost every corner had someone giving out blue ribbons and holding candles.
This event is bringing the entire community together, whereas the things proposed by some of you in this comment thread would serve the exact opposite purpose. They would increase anger on the part of the students and contribute to more senselss riotting.
The key event of this whole story will be the students reaction to the final score, how they handle themselves after the game: win or lose.
This is probably one of the very few sporting communities in the nation where visiting teams and their fans are treated with the utmost respect and admiration. If you have ever been to a Bills or Sabres game you probably have stories of visiting team's fans being treated very poorly. That DOESNT happen here, thats the type of community this is. After the storms in Alabama last year Penn State had a game there, they donated thousands of dollars to the clean up, some of which came personally from JoePa and other football supporters. I was here for the Alabama/Penn State game this year and the same thing was true, the Bama fans came in and were treated very nicely: no booing, no "your team sucks" garbage talk. The sportsmanship of this town is something that extends off the field and with the community, THAT is why cancelling these games is unthinkable and should not even be discussed.
Jim, I understand your point of view.
I hope, in time you will understand mine.
"Cancelling this season or any other season is a blow that the UNIVERSITY and its STUDENTS would never recover from..."
Every time I read how this I can't help but wonder how easy it was for those young boys to recover. Candle vigils and white ribbons do little to make the blow they got go away, those are warm and fuzzy things for the UNIVERSITY and the STUDENTS.
Four years after Penn State head coach Joe Paterno was told that his longtime defensive coordinator had allegedly sexually abused a child in the team showers, it appeared that the legendary coach still did not think that sexual assault was such a big deal.
Enjoy the game, wave your pom poms, wear your white ribbon and for God's sake continue to put university ahead of any meaningful wish for a change in attitude on how sexual abuse cases are dealt with.
Hopeless case Bea.... Like an alcoholic or other type of addict there will always be justifications and excuses why the football program is more important than school, criminal behavior, abuse behavior etc. The only people that recognize that are those outside the circle of dependancy. Pretty sad and all you can do is pray for them to see the light before they hit bottom.
This horrific cover up started within the football program, pull the plug on the football program, why should Penn State be allowed to make any revenue from the football program. It is like allowing Charles Manson to write a book about his victims and getting to keep the proceeds.
I love college football, and Joe Paterno was one of my favorite coaches, but after this moral meltdown, I have lost every ounce of respect for him.I hope and pray all involved get punished for allowing this to continue.
Football games should be the last thing on anyones mind at Penn State.
The problem with "punishing" the Penn State Football Program by banning it for however long is all the other under-funded or non-funded programs at the school that will be effected as well. How do you propose paying for women's lacrosse or getting the 14th century French Impressionist paintings on campus without the primary revenue generator the school has? Even the various curriculums the school offers the student body at large would be adversely impacted, as would be the case at any Division 1 College that has a big name sports program.
Penn State can survive without football, the administartion of the program allowed for the foulest of deeds to be committed and then covered up without any thought to the damage that was done to the children who were harmed. Let those who are ther on scholarships stay and finish for their degrees as long as they keep their grades up. As for the footbal program, other universities have had their programs suspended for recruiting violations, paying players under the table, grade alteration to maintain a players eligibility and other bonifide reasons. If this doesn't rise to the level of those violations by the administration then, I can't imagine what would. Penn State is not there to provide big time sports as its main mission or function the argument that it would loose revenue that would effect other programs is just plain BS, the money generated by sports by-in-large remains under the control of the athletic department which pays out million dollar plus salaries to members of the coaching staff and their retinue of hangers-on the like the ones that helped facilitate and cover up this crime.
I dont want to sound like a homosexual basher but it seems we need to look closer at who is working with our children. They want to be scout leaders and football coaches and the like and sue the hell out of anyone that says they should not be. Its like letting the fox guard the chicken coop.
"The biggest misunderstanding many people have is that pedophilia and homosexuality are one and the same. But to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles, or that all pedophiles are homosexual, is like comparing apples to rat poison. "They certainly are two distinct things," says James Hord, a psychologist in Panama City, Fla. ....
"Hord explains that while some pedophiles may prefer boys over girls, or vice versa, it's not so much about gender as it is about age. For homosexuals, Hord says, sexual preference is "simply not linked to the age." If a man, for instance, is attracted to other adult males, he is a homosexual. <strong>A man who is sexually attracted to male children is not considered a homosexual: He is a pedophile.</strong>"
Rex if you don't want to come of as a homophobe then knock off the BS trying to make this a gay issue, Jerry Sandusky is a pedophile whose depraved actions were directed toward children, he is not a homosexual. There is a profound difference between the two.
As a society, we have got to find out if there are genetic patterns, or any other wiring that malfunctions within these pedos. It has to go much deeper than just the sexual desires, so deep that those in powerful positions would risk their careers to fulfil these desires.
Rex, pretty big difference. In order for that assumption to be correct hetro-men would be attracted to little girls. I don't think being a scumbag child molester has anything to do with sexual preference.
Well all I can go by is my personal experances as a young man. I was accosted by more than one person in some form of power over me. I wont name anyone, I have put that behind me. But when it happens to you maybe you start to think thats the way they all are. Not all of this scums targets were little boys some were early teens.
I dont think that all homosexuals are pedifiles just as all straight men are not. Its the men straight or homosexual that want to work with children that need extra scrutiny. I am sorry that we live in a world where this happens but its our jobs to protect these babys .
Cancelling the rest of the
Cancelling the rest of the season, or cancelling the program, won't teach anybody anything.
What is there to teach?
What is there to teach? Buggering 10 year old little boys in the shower is morally wrong!
As an outside observer that
As an outside observer that has been here virtually the entire life of this "story", I can say my honest oppinion is that if they cancel any more events the student population will go nuts.
The school has been cancelling tailgaiting events, sponsorships and traditions left and right already. Somehow they havent touched 'Paternoville' yet.
Message sent to you safely from The Penn Stater Hotel (which, dont let them fool you on the television, IS very much on campus, and roughly a 30 second drive from Beaver Stadium)
No.......but they will
No.......but they will probably lose 2 out of 3. Nebraska, at Ohio State, at Wisconsin.
It's not the players fault
It's not the players fault Penn State is in this mess! They've worked hard and should be able to play. I am concerned though, that there will be a lot of chaos from the stands. It might get dangerous to be at those games!
The season should go on. The
The season should go on. The current team members had nothing to do with this so why should there be group punishment?
And if any current student acts up and causes problems, throw them out of the college. College admission is and attendance is voluntary.
Penn State probably dresses
Penn State probably dresses 70+ players, most on scholarship. Canceling the season may make a statement, but it punishes the players - the players who were not responsible for buggering 10 year old little boys.
Firing Joe Paterno and removing the university administration who had knowledge of the atrocities yet did nothing about it is appropriate. (Now, if only the Catholic Church did the same...)
This has nothing to do with
This has nothing to do with the University receiving millions in admission fees; parking; concessions; etc. at a time when their head coach and the president of the university are fired; an assistant coach is a key witness to the rape of a child; a district attorney's death is under investigation; the possibility of a massive cover up for the good of the game; and "outraged" students are rioting as they forget, by the grace of good luck, one of those young boys could have been a brother?
Wow, the majority sees nothing wrong with continuing the games.
The next three games should be cancelled. No opportunity for a bowl game bid.
Right now the most important thing this university should focus on is cleaning thier house, their name and making restitution to the young men who were scarred for life.
Bea, That's like kicking a
Bea,
That's like kicking a kid out of school because their parents knocked out the principal 10 years ago, it doesn't make sense.
These students have nothing to do with the incredibly poor handling of criminal information their administration and coach botched. Should the school be fined? Lose it's TV rights or something for a time? Sure. Send a message to their wallets, but don't prevent these young adults from completing their careers.
If it were just a matter of
If it were just a matter of the molestation issue and how it was handled, I would say that has little to do with football on the field. But given the conduct of the students the other night, I have little sympathy for Penn State and wouldn't be bothered at all by seeing this season and next cancelled.
I can't believe I'm going to
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I actually agree with Phil on this, Bea. There are other ways to punish the university and those involved, but to cancel the rest of the season punishes those who were not involved. It seems to me, too, that the leadership that is left needs to take charge of the situation on campus and lead the kids to help them learn about the implications of their behaviors and how to handel life, accept responsibility for their actions.
If there is anyone left on staff that was involved then they need to go; at least be suspended until this is sorted out.
As Howard pointed out the
As Howard pointed out the action of the students leads me to feel that the season should be cancelled as well. Also I find it hard to believe that everyone in the footbal program was ignorant. Already they have proven that there was some level of cover up and hiding of the facts for the sake of the football program, if like any other business or organization there was definately alot of rumored things whispered about by everyone in the staff and faculty as well as the football program. Close it down, clean house and try again next year.
I love Phil's metaphor for this.... He said: "That's like kicking a kid out of school because their parents knocked out the principal 10 years ago, it doesn't make sense."
Well if you think about it,it makes perfect sense... if the parents knocked out the principal to keep their kid in the school and at a passing level then he would be kicked out of school, probably moved somewhere else and re-evaluated for his actual level of learning. Keeping him there where the staff know what his parents are capable of if things dont go their way, just doesnt seem like a smart choice for the child or the rest of the faculty. Poor choice of examples.
In a private conversation
In a private conversation with a school official his reasoning for the Joe Paterno riot the other night was "if you didnt grow up here, werent a four year undergrad, and have never been in Beaver Stadium with 110,000 of your closest friends: YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND" which makes sense to me. they are intensely loyal supporters of their team here. RVs show up a full week early laden with Alumni coming to see games and just be around the Penn State campus.
Making football and
Making football and 'tradition' and whatever else more important than the children who were raped by Sandusky is the root of this problem.
Some of you need to spend a minute thinking about that ten-year old boy being anally raped in the locker room. Go ahead, picture it, mull it the f--k over. No, really imagine it, every disgusting detail.
Now tell me that it matters one little bit that the players get to play this weekend or ever again.
From the top down, Penn State engaged in a systemic cover-up of one of the most heinous crimes a human being can commit, not once, not twice, but in MULTIPLE INSTANCES. They should be barred from the NCAA for at least this year. Anything less than that is unacceptable.
...Actually they should
...Actually they should assemble all of the endowments, collateralize the athletic department properties and assets and distribute the combined sum to each of the victims.
By the way, has the report on "pimping out boys" to rich donors been mentioned?
This is a culture of denial desperately in need of a reality check.
"Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?" Gen 18:23.
Jim, with all due
Jim, with all due respect...
""if you didnt grow up here, werent a four year undergrad, and have never been in Beaver Stadium with 110,000 of your closest friends: YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND" "
Oh, but we do understand. We understand that the raping of young boys and the way this was handled is secondary to having 110,000 of your closest friends at a football game.
I've been to College Station (home of Texas A & M) a few days before their big game. I saw the ferver, enthusiasm, and excitement of attending the game with thousands of close friends. I've been to Nebraska where the Interstate (yes, the interstate)is shut down to through traffic so that their football fans could get to the game. Basically, a long, long driveway to the stadium.
Phil and Jen - you both have young children. God forbid this happens to either of you. God forbid you might have to look to the authorities of an institution that felt their football program was far more important than the safety of your children. God forbid that you walk into brick walls when you realize that "you wouldn't understand" that it is more important to continue garnering the millions from a game than working with you and your family as you suffer that trauma.
Taking away three games is a handslap. How many of those current 70 players were out there protesting? You say they aren't involved, if they were out there then they certainly are involved. They made a decision to be with their closest friends and admiring fans and the hell with the plight of these young boys.
The only important thing here
The only important thing here is prosecution of the guilty and I like CM's idea for the victims.
I'm sorry Kyle, I should have
I'm sorry Kyle, I should have added the word "today", or maybe "Not connected" which I thought would be implied and not the contorted correlation that your mind derived from it. So sure, by your standard, it does, but I wasn't creating a dramatic novella for a metaphor, so...good for you.
Bea, I'm sorry, but my having
Bea,
I'm sorry, but my having young children has little to do with this. I do not condone this horrific act, nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action, but I do not see how taking away games from a group of Student-Athletes that have nothing to do with these events satisfies anything.
Bea, you said you were there.
Bea, you said you were there. you were not A PART of the school. The students riot because they ARE the school "We are Penn State, They Aren't" is byfar my favorite sign I have seen on campus thusfar. I deffinetely dont support the accusations or the coverup, but cancelling games would punish the STUDENTS way more than the administration. Yeah the administration is humiliated by the cancellation, and yeah they would stand to lose millions in sponsorships (i have first hand knowledge of this) tv deals concessions parking etc. etc. but the students lose out way more. They lose the single, unifying thing that this campus has right now. Yeah the football program may have meant more to the administration than risking their reputation but the STUDENTS (i keep emphasizing this because they are the reason this school exists, NOT Joe Paterno, NOT the football program) lose out on their pride. I hope they play the game tommorow. I hope Penn State wins. I hope the students act in a responsible manner, and I hope the victims get the justice they deserve.
And Im not just talking about
And Im not just talking about the 80 somethings students on Penn State's roster this weekend. Im talking the 40,000 undergrads on campus, the graduate students, the countless alumni and the overall Penn State family that has never been a part of the football program or school administration.
Well juding from the news
Well juding from the news releases today, The college wont have much choice in losing the sponsorships as the sponsors pull themselves from this and head for the hills. I have to go with Bea on this, the admin put everything else above the welfare and abuse of these children. As far as I'm concerned if the closed the school down and sent everyone to other PA Colleges that would be fine.
I hate the mentality of alumni and college students that if they get enough of them together they think they can do whatever they want with no repercussions for their actions. Maybe a dose of the real world is what they need. I say kill the program and let them read Chris' rant which also hits the nail on the head.
I cant believe the same people who would crucify a parent for spanking a child can be so glib about defending a football program over the coverup and raping of children. Rather sad.
Well I just wandered over to
Well I just wandered over to the Times site to read the article. Interesting to say the least I have to copy and paste one persons comments here just to support the point that Bea Chris and I are trying to make.... Here it is:
"While we are providing our children’s programming as scheduled, The Second Mile has decided, out of respect and compassion for all impacted by the allegations from the Attorney General’s office, to postpone The Second Mile’s Reverse Drawing, which was to be held November 11, 2011. In past years, this has been a fun-filled and exciting evening, and we cannot imagine holding this event in the wake of the recent allegations, which have brought shock, sadness and concern to all associated with The Second Mile organization."
This is from the website of The Second Mile, the organization from which Jerry Sandusky drew his children victims. For the same reasons Second Mile has cited, Penn State should have the decency to cancel Saturday's football game, to cancel the rest of the season.
To those who think this would unfairly punish students and the athletes: let the students and the athletes learn a first-hand lesson in ethics and citizenship: you do not stand by and do nothing in the face of unspeakable harm to a child. If you are part of an institution that does this, you will suffer the consequences visited upon your institution. That's what being a part of any group means. The lesson may hurt. (But think of what those children endured.) This evil cannot be undone but Penn State should begin to atone. Then begin to find ways to help those victims heal."
The best rehabilitation for a
The best rehabilitation for a convicted pedophile and deterrent for a prospective ones is a determinate sentence of a red hot fireplace poker inserted ( use your imagination) until the licentious abomination chokes on it.
For the record, when I lived
For the record, when I lived in Pennsylvania, I did take classes from Penn State at our on site campus in Great Valley. So, you see, I do have a connection to the school.
Anyone who has children has to think long and hard about how they would like this handled if they were suddenly put into this situation.
These young boys waited for someone to protect them. Who better than Paterno to be the hero? He fell short of his responsibility. Those who still stand behind Paterno because he WON games, fail to see the big picture. He looked out for his own best interest. His lack of concern for the safety of those young boys wipes out any good that he may have accomplished. Watching students protest his firing because they idolized him was sickening.
Those who still stand behind Penn State because the school gives them the opportunity to spend a Saturday afternoon with 110,000 friends fail to see the big picture.
Part of Penn State's greatness, as an institution of higher learning, is teaching leadership. In this case, their own leadership failed. That is the reality.
I understand that advertising dollars are dropping. What does that tell you? Even big business doesn't want to be associated with the stench eminating from Penn State right now.
They aren't relating that to what happen 10 years ago. They are in the present time.
Penn State had an opportunity to do the right thing and the mighty dollar got in the way.
There is too much money to be made on a Saturday even if advertising dollars shrink.
Like it or not, those 70 young players will always be associated with this scandal. It will follow them. Their resume' will always be a reminder. They will be known as the men who played for hollow glory and the cheers of fans who prefer not to think about the young boys who's career paths may never be fulfilled because of Sandusky, Paterno, and the leadership at Penn State.
Phil wrote: "I'm sorry, but
Phil wrote:
"I'm sorry, but my having young children has little to do with this. I do not condone this horrific act, nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action, but I do not see how taking away games from a group of Student-Athletes that have nothing to do with these events satisfies anything."
Having young children has EVERYTHING to do with this. They will not always be under your eye and in your care. The people you place your trust when it comes to your children is the essence of this.
"...nor do I berate Penn State for the swift action...."
Swift action. Ten years later is swift action?
Think of the children that could have been saved from Sandusky if Penn State actually did take swift action. Nice of you not to berate them.
Taking the games away from the students-athletes can be considered payment overdue.
Bea I was not saying anything
Bea I was not saying anything about where you did or did not go to school. You clearly refrenced being in Texas for a game and then tried to relate that to being a member of the school or even the community. You were merely an observer. That is completely misguided. So what if you experienced the "fervor"? It is not up for the rest of the nation to dictate what this school does. You are all confusing the media and what they propose, suppose, assume, indicate, or put forth as solutions to be whats best for all the parties involved. Arent we a nation that looks out for the good of as many as possible? Yeah bad things happen, the entire community is in shock about it. The resume's of these players will be MORE affected by cancelling the season. Think about it. Instead of, "Yeah, we had problems, but we pushed through them and became better people/leaders/men/women/students." there will be "Yeah, we had problems, but instead of overcoming those problems we just hung our heads and walked home."
Leaders dont just let the problems they encounter get the best of them. They fix them, and learn from them, move on, then teach others how to avoide those problems.
It occurred to me after I
It occurred to me after I posted earlier that if we were talking about paying players or cheating there would be no question that the season would be over, as well as the next regardless od whether current players were involved or not. Given the truly horrific nature of the act & the systemic over up then it seems to me that at least the same consequences, if not MORE, should apply. I am with you on this, Bea.
Regardless of the flip I have thought that the behavior of those involved & the student body have been disgusting & I excusable.
P.s. Howard, is there a The Batavian app for my iPhone yet?
There was no cover-up in the
There was no cover-up in the true sense of the word. This has been a 3 year investigation, which occured AFTER an internal investigation. This is not news, this is olds. If need be I will take a camera and go interview students myself exclusively for the batavian. McQueary testified over 18 months ago. Last I checked that sort of thing is quite public information. It was even in the Collegian (Penn States student-run daily) over a year ago with lots of details on the case. The cover-up everyone keeps throwing around was more of an aknowledgement of problems that was in a way simply not spoken about outloud.
The riots have nothing to do with the case. They have everything to do with the way the Board of Trustees discarded a man who has dedicated most of his (now-nearing the end) adult life to their school (P.S Joe paterno didnt even go to school here, he graduated from Brown.... THATS how enticing the Penn State way of life is).
Sandusky (if found guilty) is a dispicable person, there is no denying that. McQueary (not facing any criminal charges as far as I know) did what he could but you have to keep in mind the pressure he would be put under. He told JoePa knowing he could have easily lost his job, be blacklisted etc. etc.. I bet before the end of this we find out that half of the B.O.T had knowledge and will subsequently resign/face charges.
So just to be clear...and
So just to be clear...and with the vast assumption that it was the football team acting a fool the other nigh and no one else....you're saying that because the University and its officials made a mistake, the student athletes should be punished?
I need to understand this. A group of young athletes, that in many cases were between the ages of 5 -7 when these events occurred should be held accountable for the actions of adults they didn't know at the time?
I can't stand this. What happened makes me sick inside. People who hurt children are the lowest form of scum there are in my book. Yet this punish all mentality is nothing more than an overreaction of personal anger.
Sorry to hear you switched your mind, Jennifer. You're logic earlier was strong, you're recent comparison is not. "It occurred to me after I posted earlier that if we were talking about paying players or cheating there would be no question that the season would be over, as well as the next regardless od whether current players were involved or not." You're wrong, a season would not be cancelled for this. The school would be fined, they might lose a Bowl spot, and TV rights, but they would not cancel games.
Waffle. Well thanks for the
Waffle. Well thanks for the challenge, Phil. I was going on, apparently poor, memory. I can't find anything to support what I said, but do find information supporting what you said. I also found support for vacating wins. I have to go what is on the "books", so to speak. It seems to me, though, that the entire thing is fishy and the students' response is definitely inappropriate. I really don't care if he is an icon...allowing Sandusky to continue to coach makes those above him (above Sandusky) culpable.
James you are dead wrong on
James you are dead wrong on the cover-up...... there was definately a cover up otherwise why would the administrators be arrested, look at this excerpt from a local newspaper down there...
McQueary told Paterno about the incident the next day, and the coach notified Curley and Schultz, who in turn notified Spanier. Curley and Schultz have been charged with perjury and failure to report the incident to authorities, as required by state law.
So tell me again if there was no cover up how two administrators get arrested for perjury and failure to report an incident? Sounds like a cover up to me especially when even after their knowledge of this Sandusky is still allowed to use the locker-rooms and facilities there at the college. Even the breaking headlines screamed cover up not unlike what the catholic church did with offending priests.
Lets get back to the real world here, it was covered up and swept under the rug hoping it would pass quietly.
Hmmmm Phil lets wait and
Hmmmm Phil lets wait and see....according to news police are in the process of identifying and arresting rioters based on video evidence. Lets see how many turn out to be football players and/or boosters. Then lets see what happens to the footbal program. With all the knowledge of what was happening floating around it seems to me there will be a few more people resigning and or being removed. After all the sin of omission is still a sin just because you dont acknowledge something happening, doesn't make it not happen and if you are responsible to report or do something about the issue, your responsibility isn't alleviated because you choose to ignore it.
The criminal actions of Jerry
The criminal actions of Jerry Sandusky have been know since the late 90's and were the probably the reason he retired and never had anothe coaching position. What is unfolding is more and more like a conspiracy that included the who's who of the Penn administration and the local D.A.'s office at a minimum. It beggers the imagination that the witness to the criminal acts of sodomizing children did not intervene and go immiediadtly to the police. If Penn State's football program is cancelled it is the direct result of the mis-conduct on the part of Joe Paterno and the those who turned a blind eye to what was going on in there house under their noses. Let those on scholarships remain to finish their degrees but kill the football program for the next several seasons and bring it back after the whole episode and the guilty are totally exposed.
Jim writes: "McQueary (not
Jim writes:
"McQueary (not facing any criminal charges as far as I know) did what he could but you have to keep in mind the pressure he would be put under. He told JoePa knowing he could have easily lost his job, be blacklisted etc. etc.. I bet before the end of this we find out that half of the B.O.T had knowledge and will subsequently resign/face charges."
Most likely he has whistle blower status, which hardly makes him the hero of the day.
He "did what he could"....he walked in on a boy being raped and turned around and left.
We HAVE to keep in mind the PRESSURE he would be under?
We are REMINDED that his lack of action helped destroy a young boy.
Remember him?
No one can argue that Paterno was a great coach. Is that more important than being a caring, concerned human being? His responsibility wasn't to McQueary or Sandusky but to the young boy raped by a member of his staff.
Everyone of them, and, yes, most likely all of the B.O.T. acted in their own best interest and in their perception of what was best for Penn St.'s football team.
Someone mused, "what would Bobby Knight do?". The answer was he would be up for manslaughter charges, because the only way Sandusky could survive was if Knight slipped and missed the final blow. While not condoning taking the law into one's hands, it is exactly what one would expect if one encountered a like situation.
You don't just walk away and ponder your own future. Oh wait, he was a Penn State alumni; a football player and a coach...
it appears that is all that is needed for misplaced sympathy.
Well, sitting in the Penn
Well, sitting in the Penn Stater Hotel lobby I am watching hundreds (literally) hundreds of alumni of both Nebraska and Penn State discuss this whole thing.
Im glad they all have level heads about what happened. Many are indeed quite angry at Sandusky, Mcqueary, the AD and the B.O.T, and to a lesser degree JoePa but they all agree on one thing: Cancelling this season or any other season is a blow that the UNIVERSITY and its STUDENTS would never recover from and is an undue punishment on the student body and alumni associations. They ALL have blue ribbons on supporting the victims, the stadium will be "Blue-Out" instead of the traditional "White-out" that penn state does in order to honor those victims. I watched countless candle light vigils held by STUDENTS last night and the night before, almost every corner had someone giving out blue ribbons and holding candles.
This event is bringing the entire community together, whereas the things proposed by some of you in this comment thread would serve the exact opposite purpose. They would increase anger on the part of the students and contribute to more senselss riotting.
The key event of this whole story will be the students reaction to the final score, how they handle themselves after the game: win or lose.
This is probably one of the very few sporting communities in the nation where visiting teams and their fans are treated with the utmost respect and admiration. If you have ever been to a Bills or Sabres game you probably have stories of visiting team's fans being treated very poorly. That DOESNT happen here, thats the type of community this is. After the storms in Alabama last year Penn State had a game there, they donated thousands of dollars to the clean up, some of which came personally from JoePa and other football supporters. I was here for the Alabama/Penn State game this year and the same thing was true, the Bama fans came in and were treated very nicely: no booing, no "your team sucks" garbage talk. The sportsmanship of this town is something that extends off the field and with the community, THAT is why cancelling these games is unthinkable and should not even be discussed.
Jim, I understand your point
Jim, I understand your point of view.
I hope, in time you will understand mine.
"Cancelling this season or any other season is a blow that the UNIVERSITY and its STUDENTS would never recover from..."
Every time I read how this I can't help but wonder how easy it was for those young boys to recover. Candle vigils and white ribbons do little to make the blow they got go away, those are warm and fuzzy things for the UNIVERSITY and the STUDENTS.
Four years after Penn State head coach Joe Paterno was told that his longtime defensive coordinator had allegedly sexually abused a child in the team showers, it appeared that the legendary coach still did not think that sexual assault was such a big deal.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/12/joe-paterno-s-troublin…
Enjoy the game, wave your pom poms, wear your white ribbon and for God's sake continue to put university ahead of any meaningful wish for a change in attitude on how sexual abuse cases are dealt with.
Hopeless case Bea.... Like an
Hopeless case Bea.... Like an alcoholic or other type of addict there will always be justifications and excuses why the football program is more important than school, criminal behavior, abuse behavior etc. The only people that recognize that are those outside the circle of dependancy. Pretty sad and all you can do is pray for them to see the light before they hit bottom.
This horrific cover up
This horrific cover up started within the football program, pull the plug on the football program, why should Penn State be allowed to make any revenue from the football program. It is like allowing Charles Manson to write a book about his victims and getting to keep the proceeds.
I love college football, and Joe Paterno was one of my favorite coaches, but after this moral meltdown, I have lost every ounce of respect for him.I hope and pray all involved get punished for allowing this to continue.
Football games should be the last thing on anyones mind at Penn State.
The problem with "punishing"
The problem with "punishing" the Penn State Football Program by banning it for however long is all the other under-funded or non-funded programs at the school that will be effected as well. How do you propose paying for women's lacrosse or getting the 14th century French Impressionist paintings on campus without the primary revenue generator the school has? Even the various curriculums the school offers the student body at large would be adversely impacted, as would be the case at any Division 1 College that has a big name sports program.
Penn State can survive
Penn State can survive without football, the administartion of the program allowed for the foulest of deeds to be committed and then covered up without any thought to the damage that was done to the children who were harmed. Let those who are ther on scholarships stay and finish for their degrees as long as they keep their grades up. As for the footbal program, other universities have had their programs suspended for recruiting violations, paying players under the table, grade alteration to maintain a players eligibility and other bonifide reasons. If this doesn't rise to the level of those violations by the administration then, I can't imagine what would. Penn State is not there to provide big time sports as its main mission or function the argument that it would loose revenue that would effect other programs is just plain BS, the money generated by sports by-in-large remains under the control of the athletic department which pays out million dollar plus salaries to members of the coaching staff and their retinue of hangers-on the like the ones that helped facilitate and cover up this crime.
I dont want to sound like a
I dont want to sound like a homosexual basher but it seems we need to look closer at who is working with our children. They want to be scout leaders and football coaches and the like and sue the hell out of anyone that says they should not be. Its like letting the fox guard the chicken coop.
"The biggest misunderstanding
"The biggest misunderstanding many people have is that pedophilia and homosexuality are one and the same. But to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles, or that all pedophiles are homosexual, is like comparing apples to rat poison. "They certainly are two distinct things," says James Hord, a psychologist in Panama City, Fla. ....
"Hord explains that while some pedophiles may prefer boys over girls, or vice versa, it's not so much about gender as it is about age. For homosexuals, Hord says, sexual preference is "simply not linked to the age." If a man, for instance, is attracted to other adult males, he is a homosexual. <strong>A man who is sexually attracted to male children is not considered a homosexual: He is a pedophile.</strong>"
emphasis added.
Source: http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/explaining-pedophilia
Rex if you don't want to come
Rex if you don't want to come of as a homophobe then knock off the BS trying to make this a gay issue, Jerry Sandusky is a pedophile whose depraved actions were directed toward children, he is not a homosexual. There is a profound difference between the two.
As a society, we have got to
As a society, we have got to find out if there are genetic patterns, or any other wiring that malfunctions within these pedos. It has to go much deeper than just the sexual desires, so deep that those in powerful positions would risk their careers to fulfil these desires.
Rex, pretty big difference.
Rex, pretty big difference. In order for that assumption to be correct hetro-men would be attracted to little girls. I don't think being a scumbag child molester has anything to do with sexual preference.
Well all I can go by is my
Well all I can go by is my personal experances as a young man. I was accosted by more than one person in some form of power over me. I wont name anyone, I have put that behind me. But when it happens to you maybe you start to think thats the way they all are. Not all of this scums targets were little boys some were early teens.
I dont think that all homosexuals are pedifiles just as all straight men are not. Its the men straight or homosexual that want to work with children that need extra scrutiny. I am sorry that we live in a world where this happens but its our jobs to protect these babys .