Gary,
I like Ron Paul, but don't blame the "machine" for his not being able to get votes. This is his 4th time running and he's been coming in at the bottom. As we have said here before, people say they want less government, but never really vote for it. They all want their piece of the pie.
I'm still in Newt's corner. I admit that his chances are almost nil, but I have to vote for who I think can best lead the country back to where it belongs.
The backroom deals (pressure, coercion, persuasion) have been made and the establishment Republicans have long since determined that it's Mitt's turn. They have lined up all their key endorsements and yet Mitt still can't garner 50%of the vote in any primary where the remaining candidates are competing. Wisconsin was another example of how this season has gone. The state has 72 counties, Mitt won 27 and Rick Santorum won 45. The key is that Mitt won the counties where the big cities are and thus the money and the political muscle. That has been the trend of most of the Romney wins thus far. Establishment and money will yet again rule the day in a party that is driving me that much closer to leaving.
No John you're wrong. It's about money, Romney threw it around, and had more big money supporting him. That is the machine.
Here's what I'm excited about, young people get Ron Paul, and not just young Republicans; Independents too. We are tired of all the war, crazy spending, and the way this government feels the need to tell everyone how to live. We want change, and our voice is growing! Ron Paul may not be the guy to sit in the Oval Office, but he will be the one credited with getting someone who represents us there!
Phil, I agree with your assessment of Ron Paul. He will not occupy the Oval Office, but his presence in this campaign has been far more influential than his delegate count would indicate. He has forced people to think backwards (in a good way) to the simplicity of the foundations of our government. He has energized young people in a way that others have not been able to. The trend among college students has been towards activism for the sake of activism and when pressed on issues we find out most of them are clueless as to what they are protesting. Ron Paul however has engaged and built a following of educated young people based on common sense ideals and The Constitution. I think our young electorate is better off for having Ron Paul stay in the race.
Patrick, the convention is not over and I am one to hang on to the bitter end with my man Rick Santorum, but unless a picture surfaces of Mitt Romney kissing a Muslim guy wearing an "I love Obama" t-shirt, this one is pretty much over.
When presented with the choice between Mr. Obama and Mr. Romney for POTUS, it amazes me that people continue to think that either party deserves to run this country. A third party candidate will not win this year. However, as more and more people become fed up with business as usual from the duopoly, third party momentum grows. I prefer to continue to have hope for our country. A vote for either of these men is a vote for business as usual.
Phil,
Young people like Ron Paul, and so do others. But after 4 attempts, he just does not seem to be able to get over the finish line. I think down the road his son will do it.
And while young people do not like a lot of what they see, they also want a lot of the freebies being given out.
It will take a debt crises to hit us to wake them all up. They hear about the debt, but it has not really hurt yet the way it will.
John, I don't think that you really have listened to Ron Paul supporters.
What freebies? That's a very blanket statement that has the comfort of providing no fact to be stated. Most Paul supporters, young and old, talk about an impending debt crisis and point to Paul's elimination of full departments to cut $1 Trillion, his return to the Gold Standard and his withdrawl of foreign aide. I'm not really getting where you're coming from with your statement.
I agree Phil. Young people supporting Ron Paul are unique in that even though they grew up in the era of ever increasing entitlements and government nurtured dependency, these young people are overwhelmingly about small government and
less government intrusion into their lives. Ron Paul may never be President but he is paving the road for other like minded candidates. I remain hopeful.
I constantly see the same conversation day in and day out about politics and Govt. The system we have now is barely functional. However all anyone does is refer to the futility of trying to change, how as long as people keep getting their piece of the pie the status quo will go on. Well guess what, the slice is getting smaller people, and the next big crash is just over the horizon. As long as we allow the Govt to roll over us doing as they wish, nothing will ever change. Everyone means well in here but to me it just seems like a bunch of chickens clucking in their crate on the interstate, nothing is gonna happen til trooper picks that crate up, or a semi hits it. Which do you think is most likely to happen? I just hope everyone wakes up as the crap hits the fan and we can effect some change when it can actually be effective.
Hi Jeff. I was being a bit sarcastic about the convention being over. I just thought it odd the way the poll was worded as if the Romney nomination was a foregone conclusion.
Well, it's a free country and everyone has a choice on whether or not to go to college. Job choices without an education however are very limited.
Young people are really in such a tough spot. With education costs rising so rapidly, many are so burdened with an unbelievable debt load when they are done that it hamper their spending power their entire life. Many parents who haven't seen their incomes go up in years just can't afford to save for their kids education. I see it with my own son. He chose to get his Master's degree out of state and pay the out of state tuition. He's working in his profession (thank God), but pays hundreds of dollars a month in student loans and will be paying that amount for the next 20 years. While he has never shied away from hard work, the burden of the debt has him working three jobs.
If we don't educate the next generation, we will find ourselves falling further and further behind other nations. I believe that the "giveaways" in the form of Pell grants are a direct investment in our future. And if a child is poor, but bright that's an investment worth making.
Patrick, it is litterally impossible for any of the republican candidates to overtake or even stop Romney from getting the nomination.
Ron Paul would have to win 95% of the remaining delegates
Newt Gingrich 84%
Rick Santorum 72%
The math isn't there, therefore, his nomination is a forgone conclusion. Left out also are the super delegates that almost always go with the front runner
Ron Paul is still it for the same reason he always stays in it, he wants a prominant place at the convention and wants to be a key player in establishing the party planks
Newt & Rick are pretty much on egoride right now, they both I will bet know the outcome is set, but it is hard to shut it off.
Frankly, Santorum and Gingrich are hurting the party at this point, I leave out Ron Paul in that statement because he isn't talking down the others, he is staying true to form.
I like Ron Paul on many issues, but not all issues, but the fact is, outside of the libertarian thinkers, Ron Paul will never garner cross ocer votes or for that matter much of the indepents that consider themselves in the center
Jeff, and that is pretty much the same way the Obama/Clinton primary went in 2008. In a 4-way race, it doesn't matter who gets 50% or not in a primary, what matters is who wins the 4-way race.
In 2008, Obama won all the big cities, Clinton won most of the rest, Obama won many races with 40% of the vote against clinton when there were still others in the race'
The reason why many senators and congresspersons are coming on board now is because the race is becoming pretty much Romney's to loose.
Why does no one ever complain that the colleges are to blame for the cost of getting a degree.....Its a system that depends on the government to finance all these degrees....And some think that we the taxpayers should pay for all this..Go after the colleges that charge all these high tuitions...Let them lower their costs..I agree with John..Pell grants are freebies .....Lorie your son bought a product called a masters degree..Now he has to pay for it..We all have debt.You buy a house you have debt,you buy a car you have debt..if you can't afford it you don't buy it..When half your income goes to some kind of tax its no wonder you can't save for college....You shouldn't expect others to pay for it......Many kids are pushed into college ,get no degree and are stuck with debt......College is not the answer for all......I'm sure Ron Paul would agree................................
A third party is unlikely to win in our lifetimes Jim, With your line of thought however, you are right, business as usual is getting at Americans in general, that is what the TEA Party is all about, and frankly, look at the influence it has had on the house of representatives.
Two budgets passed now by republican house, ZERO by Democratically controlled senate (Even though by law they must pass a budget)
This is not a problem that has just appeared, I know many ike to blame Bush for the economic downturn, and some think it was Bush Debt because of the wars. But the fact is that our woes were 50 years in the making.
Medicare was projected to cost 12 Billion by 2000, in fact it cost 20 times that
Politicians since the 70's have tried to push home ownership for people who simply could not afford them (That is actually the underlying cause of the downturn)
The problem is in a nut shell, that since FDR, the federal politicains have steadily eroded states rights, in some cases like school integration they were right to do so, but in many others it has undermined how our republic was intended to work.
I will vote for the Candidate that is for States rights all the time, incidently, that is one of Romney's planks, Government closer to home is always best.
Just about everything would cost the states and local municipalities less, if not for federal intervention primarily by mandate.
In my opinion, the Fed should be limited to, National defense, foriegn policy, printing money(Only in the sense in one form of curency) and controlling Interstate commerce by assuring that states can not block commerce from businesses in other states,
EVERYTHING ELSE, should be in the hands of state legislatures and Governors
Our federal tax should be flat and the federal government's spending should be limited to revenue, no tax breaks, no scaled tax structure, those are not about revenue, they are about power.
The absolute worst amendment to our constitution was the 17th Amendment which took representation away from the state, Our system was designed so that the house represents the people, the senate represents the states. Once direct election of senators became law, the senate became politicized and government moved from the people to the Fed.
One thing that can't be taken away from Rick Santorum is the unprecedented way in which he efficiently gets his message out against huge spending disadvantages. Taking into consideration the amount spent by each candidate, the most recent cost per vote and cost per delegate counts look like this:
Ron Paul
$496,000 per delegate
$30 per vote
Gingrich
$140,000 per delegate
$9 per vote
Romney
$118,000 per delegate
$17 per vote
Santorum
$50,000 per delegate
$4 per vote
Somehow Santorum's message resonates without having to be shoved down people's throats and plays well across many categories except the rich, moderate Republicans.
Actually Jeff, I like Santorum, it is admirable and a real credit to him that he has come as far as he has, All that I am saying is the writing is on the wall now, and it is time to work together to send the Harvard Professor back to Chicago
Ron Paul all the way, he is
Ron Paul all the way, he is the only candidate with brains for the job!!
(of course the MACHINE won't let that happen)
Gary, I like Ron Paul, but
Gary,
I like Ron Paul, but don't blame the "machine" for his not being able to get votes. This is his 4th time running and he's been coming in at the bottom. As we have said here before, people say they want less government, but never really vote for it. They all want their piece of the pie.
I'm still in Newt's corner. I
I'm still in Newt's corner. I admit that his chances are almost nil, but I have to vote for who I think can best lead the country back to where it belongs.
The backroom deals (pressure,
The backroom deals (pressure, coercion, persuasion) have been made and the establishment Republicans have long since determined that it's Mitt's turn. They have lined up all their key endorsements and yet Mitt still can't garner 50%of the vote in any primary where the remaining candidates are competing. Wisconsin was another example of how this season has gone. The state has 72 counties, Mitt won 27 and Rick Santorum won 45. The key is that Mitt won the counties where the big cities are and thus the money and the political muscle. That has been the trend of most of the Romney wins thus far. Establishment and money will yet again rule the day in a party that is driving me that much closer to leaving.
No John you're wrong. It's
No John you're wrong. It's about money, Romney threw it around, and had more big money supporting him. That is the machine.
Here's what I'm excited about, young people get Ron Paul, and not just young Republicans; Independents too. We are tired of all the war, crazy spending, and the way this government feels the need to tell everyone how to live. We want change, and our voice is growing! Ron Paul may not be the guy to sit in the Oval Office, but he will be the one credited with getting someone who represents us there!
And that's pretty cool.
Phil, I agree with your
Phil, I agree with your assessment of Ron Paul. He will not occupy the Oval Office, but his presence in this campaign has been far more influential than his delegate count would indicate. He has forced people to think backwards (in a good way) to the simplicity of the foundations of our government. He has energized young people in a way that others have not been able to. The trend among college students has been towards activism for the sake of activism and when pressed on issues we find out most of them are clueless as to what they are protesting. Ron Paul however has engaged and built a following of educated young people based on common sense ideals and The Constitution. I think our young electorate is better off for having Ron Paul stay in the race.
I didn't know the Republican
I didn't know the Republican Convention was over. Hmmm.
Patrick, the convention is
Patrick, the convention is not over and I am one to hang on to the bitter end with my man Rick Santorum, but unless a picture surfaces of Mitt Romney kissing a Muslim guy wearing an "I love Obama" t-shirt, this one is pretty much over.
When presented with the
When presented with the choice between Mr. Obama and Mr. Romney for POTUS, it amazes me that people continue to think that either party deserves to run this country. A third party candidate will not win this year. However, as more and more people become fed up with business as usual from the duopoly, third party momentum grows. I prefer to continue to have hope for our country. A vote for either of these men is a vote for business as usual.
Phil, Young people like Ron
Phil,
Young people like Ron Paul, and so do others. But after 4 attempts, he just does not seem to be able to get over the finish line. I think down the road his son will do it.
And while young people do not like a lot of what they see, they also want a lot of the freebies being given out.
It will take a debt crises to hit us to wake them all up. They hear about the debt, but it has not really hurt yet the way it will.
John, I don't think that you
John, I don't think that you really have listened to Ron Paul supporters.
What freebies? That's a very blanket statement that has the comfort of providing no fact to be stated. Most Paul supporters, young and old, talk about an impending debt crisis and point to Paul's elimination of full departments to cut $1 Trillion, his return to the Gold Standard and his withdrawl of foreign aide. I'm not really getting where you're coming from with your statement.
I agree Phil. Young people
I agree Phil. Young people supporting Ron Paul are unique in that even though they grew up in the era of ever increasing entitlements and government nurtured dependency, these young people are overwhelmingly about small government and
less government intrusion into their lives. Ron Paul may never be President but he is paving the road for other like minded candidates. I remain hopeful.
Freebies like Pell grants? I
Freebies like Pell grants? I don't know what freebies are getting handed out to young people. Please explain, John.
I constantly see the same
I constantly see the same conversation day in and day out about politics and Govt. The system we have now is barely functional. However all anyone does is refer to the futility of trying to change, how as long as people keep getting their piece of the pie the status quo will go on. Well guess what, the slice is getting smaller people, and the next big crash is just over the horizon. As long as we allow the Govt to roll over us doing as they wish, nothing will ever change. Everyone means well in here but to me it just seems like a bunch of chickens clucking in their crate on the interstate, nothing is gonna happen til trooper picks that crate up, or a semi hits it. Which do you think is most likely to happen? I just hope everyone wakes up as the crap hits the fan and we can effect some change when it can actually be effective.
Hi Jeff. I was being a bit
Hi Jeff. I was being a bit sarcastic about the convention being over. I just thought it odd the way the poll was worded as if the Romney nomination was a foregone conclusion.
Lorie, Subsidized college
Lorie,
Subsidized college loans and Pell Grants are what I had in mind.
Well, it's a free country and
Well, it's a free country and everyone has a choice on whether or not to go to college. Job choices without an education however are very limited.
Young people are really in such a tough spot. With education costs rising so rapidly, many are so burdened with an unbelievable debt load when they are done that it hamper their spending power their entire life. Many parents who haven't seen their incomes go up in years just can't afford to save for their kids education. I see it with my own son. He chose to get his Master's degree out of state and pay the out of state tuition. He's working in his profession (thank God), but pays hundreds of dollars a month in student loans and will be paying that amount for the next 20 years. While he has never shied away from hard work, the burden of the debt has him working three jobs.
If we don't educate the next generation, we will find ourselves falling further and further behind other nations. I believe that the "giveaways" in the form of Pell grants are a direct investment in our future. And if a child is poor, but bright that's an investment worth making.
Patrick, it is litterally
Patrick, it is litterally impossible for any of the republican candidates to overtake or even stop Romney from getting the nomination.
Ron Paul would have to win 95% of the remaining delegates
Newt Gingrich 84%
Rick Santorum 72%
The math isn't there, therefore, his nomination is a forgone conclusion. Left out also are the super delegates that almost always go with the front runner
Ron Paul is still it for the same reason he always stays in it, he wants a prominant place at the convention and wants to be a key player in establishing the party planks
Newt & Rick are pretty much on egoride right now, they both I will bet know the outcome is set, but it is hard to shut it off.
Frankly, Santorum and Gingrich are hurting the party at this point, I leave out Ron Paul in that statement because he isn't talking down the others, he is staying true to form.
I like Ron Paul on many issues, but not all issues, but the fact is, outside of the libertarian thinkers, Ron Paul will never garner cross ocer votes or for that matter much of the indepents that consider themselves in the center
Jeff, and that is pretty much
Jeff, and that is pretty much the same way the Obama/Clinton primary went in 2008. In a 4-way race, it doesn't matter who gets 50% or not in a primary, what matters is who wins the 4-way race.
In 2008, Obama won all the big cities, Clinton won most of the rest, Obama won many races with 40% of the vote against clinton when there were still others in the race'
The reason why many senators and congresspersons are coming on board now is because the race is becoming pretty much Romney's to loose.
Why does no one ever complain
Why does no one ever complain that the colleges are to blame for the cost of getting a degree.....Its a system that depends on the government to finance all these degrees....And some think that we the taxpayers should pay for all this..Go after the colleges that charge all these high tuitions...Let them lower their costs..I agree with John..Pell grants are freebies .....Lorie your son bought a product called a masters degree..Now he has to pay for it..We all have debt.You buy a house you have debt,you buy a car you have debt..if you can't afford it you don't buy it..When half your income goes to some kind of tax its no wonder you can't save for college....You shouldn't expect others to pay for it......Many kids are pushed into college ,get no degree and are stuck with debt......College is not the answer for all......I'm sure Ron Paul would agree................................
A third party is unlikely to
A third party is unlikely to win in our lifetimes Jim, With your line of thought however, you are right, business as usual is getting at Americans in general, that is what the TEA Party is all about, and frankly, look at the influence it has had on the house of representatives.
Two budgets passed now by republican house, ZERO by Democratically controlled senate (Even though by law they must pass a budget)
This is not a problem that has just appeared, I know many ike to blame Bush for the economic downturn, and some think it was Bush Debt because of the wars. But the fact is that our woes were 50 years in the making.
Medicare was projected to cost 12 Billion by 2000, in fact it cost 20 times that
Politicians since the 70's have tried to push home ownership for people who simply could not afford them (That is actually the underlying cause of the downturn)
The problem is in a nut shell, that since FDR, the federal politicains have steadily eroded states rights, in some cases like school integration they were right to do so, but in many others it has undermined how our republic was intended to work.
I will vote for the Candidate that is for States rights all the time, incidently, that is one of Romney's planks, Government closer to home is always best.
Just about everything would cost the states and local municipalities less, if not for federal intervention primarily by mandate.
In my opinion, the Fed should be limited to, National defense, foriegn policy, printing money(Only in the sense in one form of curency) and controlling Interstate commerce by assuring that states can not block commerce from businesses in other states,
EVERYTHING ELSE, should be in the hands of state legislatures and Governors
Our federal tax should be flat and the federal government's spending should be limited to revenue, no tax breaks, no scaled tax structure, those are not about revenue, they are about power.
The absolute worst amendment to our constitution was the 17th Amendment which took representation away from the state, Our system was designed so that the house represents the people, the senate represents the states. Once direct election of senators became law, the senate became politicized and government moved from the people to the Fed.
One thing that can't be taken
One thing that can't be taken away from Rick Santorum is the unprecedented way in which he efficiently gets his message out against huge spending disadvantages. Taking into consideration the amount spent by each candidate, the most recent cost per vote and cost per delegate counts look like this:
Ron Paul
$496,000 per delegate
$30 per vote
Gingrich
$140,000 per delegate
$9 per vote
Romney
$118,000 per delegate
$17 per vote
Santorum
$50,000 per delegate
$4 per vote
Somehow Santorum's message resonates without having to be shoved down people's throats and plays well across many categories except the rich, moderate Republicans.
Actually Jeff, I like
Actually Jeff, I like Santorum, it is admirable and a real credit to him that he has come as far as he has, All that I am saying is the writing is on the wall now, and it is time to work together to send the Harvard Professor back to Chicago
Run the poll again in August
Run the poll again in August when the nominees (including third parties) have been locked in.