There was a time when stealing an animal could end with the thief dancing at the end of a rope. While not to suggest a return to such draconian penalties a bit of time behind bars sounds about right.
Jeff.... That was the most cold and mercenary commentn I have seen in here. I have had pets most of my life. As a child they taught me some compassion and helped me through some rough times that I might not have made it through otherwise. To most couples and others they are like children, and theft or murder of them hits as hard as losing a child. Even now with my current condition that has had me out of work, my two cats havent left my side. Making a crime like this a felony is long overdue. People that would steal or kill or otherwise abduct a pet are completely doin it out of spite trying to hurt the owner in the most direct way possible.
I truly hope your comment was sarcastic, otherwise I feel pity for you not ever knowing the loyalty and friendship of a companion animal. I am totally for this law. Would even like to see it a class higher for particularly despicable acts committed on pet to hurt their owners and families.
I agree Howard, however laws must be objective not subjective. One mans pet is another mans property and nothing more. We all place a value on things both tangible and emotional and those values vary greatly. The article includes strays. Does it include the goldfish that was won at the carnival? That goldfish holds more value to that child than the barn cat that is simply there to keep the mice away. How do you quantify the value of each. I have miniature Dachshunds that I absolutely consider part of our family but again laws have to be void of emotion and the only way to do that is to assign tangible value to pets for the purposes of prosecution. Anything else opens the door to abusive interpretation and adds more legislation to an already over-saturated legal structure.
BS Jeff.....then tell me what tangible value is the law that makes hitting a senior citizen based on? It is a bunch of hogwash so your dachsunds because they are a registered breed and have papers have more of a monetary value than my rescued cat that I have raised since it was a kitten. Its also in how the law is applied, do you really think that someone is gonna call police because a barn cat especially one that is just used for mouse control? I know for a fact from direct expereince w a grandson that the death of a so called "barn cat" was much more devastaing to him than a goldfish these arguments are ridiculous. And very insulting to those who have beloved pets that really in the "official" eyes of the law have no monetary value.
Kyle, you are making my point for me. The value of a pet cannot be quantified in the eyes of an owner since there are individual variables that do not adhere to society as a whole. Laws have to be structured so that they can be applied without regard to intrinsic value. In New York State, felony theft begins with the value of $1000. Society has created this problem. If people argue that you cannot put a monetary value on a pet, how come I can rescue a stray from a shelter for the cost of it's care, yet would have to pay upwards of $1500 far a rare registered pure bred dog. Society has already put values on pets. You have made the pre-assumption that my dachshunds are AKC registered and have value to me based on that. You are incorrect. Two are rescued dogs and we have spent thousands of dollars on their care including major surgery. We love our dogs deeply and they return the affection. However when it comes to legislation, you have to step back and consider how laws necessarily need to be structured in order to be fair and impartial. Creating another felony law and applying it to an emotionally subjective matter cannot be accomplished fairly. Laws in knee jerk reaction to highly charged situations are not always the best solution.
I see you still havent answered the question I posed though....... its very relevant to the opinion that you base your whole point on. Let me ask one more time...
What tangible value is the law that makes it a felony to hit a senior citizen based on?
Seems to me you are avoiding answering that because it takes the wind out of your sails on the whole argument that thw law must be based on monetary value, not emotionally subjective matter.
Kyle, I didn't answer the question because it is completely irrelevant. You are comparing theft and physical assault. There should be no legal difference for assaulting a child, an adult, or a senior citizen. Assaulting a person is wrong and cannot be compared to theft. Theft is monetarily quantifiable. It's apples and oranges.
Well your opinion is there should be no difference between the assault of a child, adult or senior, but thats the problem with opinions, they arent facts. But they are a crime against a person, just like theft. People think oh well because teh animal isnt worth much they can steal it without repercussion. Lawmakers now will elevate it to a felony, its logical and your ow argument shows that even kitten you pick up free are worth thousands of dollars once food and medical costs are factored in. The whole purpose of this law is to 1) Make the theft of pets more serious so that police make more of an effort to look into it. 2)To discourage jerks who think nothing of doing such things a moment to think when they are in court, especially when they could go to jail rather than just paying a fine or getting a slap on a wrist.
I'm sorry that I dont feel the need to categorize and quantify crimes based on what and who they effect, to me wrong is wrong and if you do wrong especially when done with intent then you pay the penalty.
As a dog lover, I feel very strongly about any type of animal abuse, stealing a family pet is animal abuse and anyone who would perpetrate such an act should rot in jail.
Here is the statute from NYS Penal Law. Larceny, a misdemeanor as differentiated from Grand Larceny, a felony:
S 155.30 Grand larceny in the fourth degree.
A person is guilty of grand larceny in the fourth degree when he
steals property and when:
1. The value of the property exceeds one thousand dollars; or
2. The property consists of a public record, writing or instrument
kept, filed or deposited according to law with or in the keeping of any
public office or public servant; or
3. The property consists of secret scientific material; or
4. The property consists of a credit card or debit card; or
5. The property, regardless of its nature and value, is taken from the
person of another; or
6. The property, regardless of its nature and value, is obtained by
extortion; or
7. The property consists of one or more firearms, rifles or shotguns,
as such terms are defined in section 265.00 of this chapter; or
8. The value of the property exceeds one hundred dollars and the
property consists of a motor vehicle, as defined in section one hundred
twenty-five of the vehicle and traffic law, other than a motorcycle, as
defined in section one hundred twenty-three of such law; or
9. The property consists of a scroll, religious vestment, a vessel, an
item comprising a display of religious symbols which forms a
representative expression of faith, or other miscellaneous item of
property which:
(a) has a value of at least one hundred dollars; and
(b) is kept for or used in connection with religious worship in any
building, structure or upon the curtilage of such building or structure
used as a place of religious worship by a religious corporation, as
incorporated under the religious corporations law or the education law.
10. The property consists of an access device which the person intends
to use unlawfully to obtain telephone service.
11. The property consists of anhydrous ammonia or liquified ammonia
gas and the actor intends to use, or knows another person intends to
use, such anhydrous ammonia or liquified ammonia gas to manufacture
methamphetamine.
Many states have thresholds of 300, 400 and 500 dollars distinguishing misdemeanor larceny from felonious larceny. A pedigree dog would easily meet that standard- as would the investment of food for pets in the course of a few years. New York's Grand Larceny threshold is $1,000, unless the animal happens to be on the owner's lap when the theft occurs. Granted a goldfish would require significant sentimental value to qualify, but it not so far-fetched to presume a stolen pet would merit a felony charge under existing law.
Just for arguments sake: a Bengal Cat is valued upwards of $3000, a Snow Macaque, $3500; a Squirrel Monkey, $4000; Chinese Crested Hairless, $4000; English Bulldog, up to $5000; Striped Ball Python, $8,000; Albino Pythons, up to $20,000; a Tibetan Mastiff sold for $1.5 million, an Akita sells for up to $4500, Bearded Collies, up to $5000; Rottweilers, up to $8000; Chow Chows, up to $8500; Russian Blue cat, up to $2000; Maine Coon cat, upwards of $2000 and a Manx can sell for as much as $4000.
What an interesting legal
What an interesting legal dilemma might occur during an acrimonious divorce if such a passed bill was not carefully worded.
You can try to steal my
:) You can try to steal my dog....he may have other ideas !!!
There was a time when
There was a time when stealing an animal could end with the thief dancing at the end of a rope. While not to suggest a return to such draconian penalties a bit of time behind bars sounds about right.
Only if the animal has a
Only if the animal has a verifiable value of $1000 or more.
Pets are more than just
Pets are more than just property with some monetary value attached.
Jeff.... That was the most
Jeff.... That was the most cold and mercenary commentn I have seen in here. I have had pets most of my life. As a child they taught me some compassion and helped me through some rough times that I might not have made it through otherwise. To most couples and others they are like children, and theft or murder of them hits as hard as losing a child. Even now with my current condition that has had me out of work, my two cats havent left my side. Making a crime like this a felony is long overdue. People that would steal or kill or otherwise abduct a pet are completely doin it out of spite trying to hurt the owner in the most direct way possible.
I truly hope your comment was sarcastic, otherwise I feel pity for you not ever knowing the loyalty and friendship of a companion animal. I am totally for this law. Would even like to see it a class higher for particularly despicable acts committed on pet to hurt their owners and families.
I agree Howard, however laws
I agree Howard, however laws must be objective not subjective. One mans pet is another mans property and nothing more. We all place a value on things both tangible and emotional and those values vary greatly. The article includes strays. Does it include the goldfish that was won at the carnival? That goldfish holds more value to that child than the barn cat that is simply there to keep the mice away. How do you quantify the value of each. I have miniature Dachshunds that I absolutely consider part of our family but again laws have to be void of emotion and the only way to do that is to assign tangible value to pets for the purposes of prosecution. Anything else opens the door to abusive interpretation and adds more legislation to an already over-saturated legal structure.
BS Jeff.....then tell me what
BS Jeff.....then tell me what tangible value is the law that makes hitting a senior citizen based on? It is a bunch of hogwash so your dachsunds because they are a registered breed and have papers have more of a monetary value than my rescued cat that I have raised since it was a kitten. Its also in how the law is applied, do you really think that someone is gonna call police because a barn cat especially one that is just used for mouse control? I know for a fact from direct expereince w a grandson that the death of a so called "barn cat" was much more devastaing to him than a goldfish these arguments are ridiculous. And very insulting to those who have beloved pets that really in the "official" eyes of the law have no monetary value.
Kyle, you are making my point
Kyle, you are making my point for me. The value of a pet cannot be quantified in the eyes of an owner since there are individual variables that do not adhere to society as a whole. Laws have to be structured so that they can be applied without regard to intrinsic value. In New York State, felony theft begins with the value of $1000. Society has created this problem. If people argue that you cannot put a monetary value on a pet, how come I can rescue a stray from a shelter for the cost of it's care, yet would have to pay upwards of $1500 far a rare registered pure bred dog. Society has already put values on pets. You have made the pre-assumption that my dachshunds are AKC registered and have value to me based on that. You are incorrect. Two are rescued dogs and we have spent thousands of dollars on their care including major surgery. We love our dogs deeply and they return the affection. However when it comes to legislation, you have to step back and consider how laws necessarily need to be structured in order to be fair and impartial. Creating another felony law and applying it to an emotionally subjective matter cannot be accomplished fairly. Laws in knee jerk reaction to highly charged situations are not always the best solution.
I see you still havent
I see you still havent answered the question I posed though....... its very relevant to the opinion that you base your whole point on. Let me ask one more time...
What tangible value is the law that makes it a felony to hit a senior citizen based on?
Seems to me you are avoiding answering that because it takes the wind out of your sails on the whole argument that thw law must be based on monetary value, not emotionally subjective matter.
Le Yawn... Ennui is alive and
Le Yawn...
Ennui is alive and well.
Kyle, I didn't answer the
Kyle, I didn't answer the question because it is completely irrelevant. You are comparing theft and physical assault. There should be no legal difference for assaulting a child, an adult, or a senior citizen. Assaulting a person is wrong and cannot be compared to theft. Theft is monetarily quantifiable. It's apples and oranges.
Well your opinion is there
Well your opinion is there should be no difference between the assault of a child, adult or senior, but thats the problem with opinions, they arent facts. But they are a crime against a person, just like theft. People think oh well because teh animal isnt worth much they can steal it without repercussion. Lawmakers now will elevate it to a felony, its logical and your ow argument shows that even kitten you pick up free are worth thousands of dollars once food and medical costs are factored in. The whole purpose of this law is to 1) Make the theft of pets more serious so that police make more of an effort to look into it. 2)To discourage jerks who think nothing of doing such things a moment to think when they are in court, especially when they could go to jail rather than just paying a fine or getting a slap on a wrist.
I'm sorry that I dont feel the need to categorize and quantify crimes based on what and who they effect, to me wrong is wrong and if you do wrong especially when done with intent then you pay the penalty.
As a dog lover, I feel very
As a dog lover, I feel very strongly about any type of animal abuse, stealing a family pet is animal abuse and anyone who would perpetrate such an act should rot in jail.
Here is the statute from NYS
Here is the statute from NYS Penal Law. Larceny, a misdemeanor as differentiated from Grand Larceny, a felony:
S 155.30 Grand larceny in the fourth degree.
A person is guilty of grand larceny in the fourth degree when he
steals property and when:
1. The value of the property exceeds one thousand dollars; or
2. The property consists of a public record, writing or instrument
kept, filed or deposited according to law with or in the keeping of any
public office or public servant; or
3. The property consists of secret scientific material; or
4. The property consists of a credit card or debit card; or
5. The property, regardless of its nature and value, is taken from the
person of another; or
6. The property, regardless of its nature and value, is obtained by
extortion; or
7. The property consists of one or more firearms, rifles or shotguns,
as such terms are defined in section 265.00 of this chapter; or
8. The value of the property exceeds one hundred dollars and the
property consists of a motor vehicle, as defined in section one hundred
twenty-five of the vehicle and traffic law, other than a motorcycle, as
defined in section one hundred twenty-three of such law; or
9. The property consists of a scroll, religious vestment, a vessel, an
item comprising a display of religious symbols which forms a
representative expression of faith, or other miscellaneous item of
property which:
(a) has a value of at least one hundred dollars; and
(b) is kept for or used in connection with religious worship in any
building, structure or upon the curtilage of such building or structure
used as a place of religious worship by a religious corporation, as
incorporated under the religious corporations law or the education law.
10. The property consists of an access device which the person intends
to use unlawfully to obtain telephone service.
11. The property consists of anhydrous ammonia or liquified ammonia
gas and the actor intends to use, or knows another person intends to
use, such anhydrous ammonia or liquified ammonia gas to manufacture
methamphetamine.
Many states have thresholds of 300, 400 and 500 dollars distinguishing misdemeanor larceny from felonious larceny. A pedigree dog would easily meet that standard- as would the investment of food for pets in the course of a few years. New York's Grand Larceny threshold is $1,000, unless the animal happens to be on the owner's lap when the theft occurs. Granted a goldfish would require significant sentimental value to qualify, but it not so far-fetched to presume a stolen pet would merit a felony charge under existing law.
Just for arguments sake: a Bengal Cat is valued upwards of $3000, a Snow Macaque, $3500; a Squirrel Monkey, $4000; Chinese Crested Hairless, $4000; English Bulldog, up to $5000; Striped Ball Python, $8,000; Albino Pythons, up to $20,000; a Tibetan Mastiff sold for $1.5 million, an Akita sells for up to $4500, Bearded Collies, up to $5000; Rottweilers, up to $8000; Chow Chows, up to $8500; Russian Blue cat, up to $2000; Maine Coon cat, upwards of $2000 and a Manx can sell for as much as $4000.