Since the entire program has been proven to be complicit in covering up for that lower than dog shit life form that calls himself a man, I say: Absolutely and for a very long time.
Give the kids in the program an extra year of eligibility at another school, done deal.
Well said Chris. What happened at Penn State did not happen in a vacuum it was a conspiracy that covered up for Sandusky, with Paterno, his staff, the administration and we can only guess how many others in an effort to escape justice. The football program needs to be killed until the full extent of the cover-up is exposed with those responsible brought to justice and those who were harmed restored to as near whole as possible.
Unfortunately, shutting down Penn State's football program will not harm the people responsible - they have (for the most part) already been purged from the system. Any remaining with any culpability should also be removed.
Shutting down the entire program will hurt those 50-70(?) kids on scholarship. The perv is going to jail already, Paterno's dead and his reputation appropriately tarnished. But that sophomore linebacker who had no knowledge of what was going on? Shut down the program , and odds are somebody will not finish college (even if that sophomore is able to transfer to another school, he'll take a scholarship away from somebody there).
The point of shutting down the program isn't to punish anybody. It's to send a message that this sort of thing will not be tolerated by the NCAA. To not take such a serious step -- in full recognition to what it will mean for current members of the program -- sends the wrong message.
As with many issues in this country, things like this are not proactive. They are reactive. I'm assuming everyone involved with this has been removed. So now you bring in fresh people to fix the program, and then punish them? This is a reactive approach, and while it may feel like justice to punish a name becuase of what a group of scumbags who worked for that name did, I don't think it is sending any message. What is done from this point on to the people who committed the crime is the messageIt may not be the right thing. But that is where the message needs to be aimed.
The assumption that everyone who was involved has been removed seems premature at best. There are many more questions that have been raised that have not been addressed or answered at this point. Freeh's report is clearly indicates that there was a substantial conspiracy to cover up and obstruct any prosecution of Sandusky as well as statements by the administration that they were concerned that he be treated humanely. Humanely? They have an eyewitness to his buggering a minor in a shower and the concern is treating this pedophile "humanely". The investigation and resolution of what happened, who knew what and what the penalty should be is just starting to truly take shape. During the interim the Penn State football program should be suspended until the investigations are completed and all of those who had any responsibility are brought to justice.
Those with scholarships can stay and get an education or go elsewhere, they just won't play football.
The fact that football and other sports programs are a large source of income for many universities is primarily the reason why incidents like this as well as cheating scandals, rape cover ups and other forms of bad behavior are swept under the rug.
The NCAA punishes schools when things of this nature are revealed not to punish those involved, but also to serve as a consequence for other schools turning a blind eye to improprieties.
Penn State racked in millions of dollars during this period, more so than the majority of schools across the nation, that in essence was the impetus for many in the program to turn a blind eye. If the school is not punished, there is no consequence, and no consequence only minimizes the schools perceived need to maintain an acceptable standard. The old saying, “Follow the Money” applies here in a big way.
With regard to the students and scholarships, I would venture to say that they will be offered scholarship opportunities at other schools, while inconvenient, the talented young men in the football program will surely in the end find placement simply because other schools will seek their talent.
The other effect of suspension is that the recruiting prospects in the future will be severely diminished. This has happened to several schools since the NCAA’s inception. Schools have been suspended for much less.
Penn State is every bit the entity that it’s staff and administrators are, to simple say those involved should be punished not the school, is short cited.
The death penalty is the popular term for the National Collegiate Athletic Association's power to ban a school from competing in a sport for at least one year. It is the harshest penalty that an NCAA member school can receive.
It has been implemented only five times:
1.The University of Kentucky basketball program for the 1952–53 season.
2.The basketball program at the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette) for the 1973–74 and 1974–75 seasons.
3.The Southern Methodist University football program for the 1987 and 1988 seasons.
4.The Division II men's soccer program at Morehouse College for the 2004 and 2005 seasons.
5.The Division III men's tennis program at MacMurray College for the 2005–06 and 2006–07 seasons.
Howard is right shutting down the program would be to set an example other schools that covering up this behavior will have repercussions. If you shut down the program now you will be punishing the students currently enrolled. I say let them finish out the program and in 3 years you shut them down for a few years. This will allow the seniors and juniors to finish out their years without any problems and the sophomores and freshmen should be able to transfer out to different schools.
Mark is dead on in that this was always about money, follow the money. I don't know whether or not the football program should be shut down, but Penn State ought to be directed by the NCAA to pay a substantial amount of the precious dollars toward programs that work against pedophiles. They should also offer extensive training to everyone in their employ about child abuse and endangerment. You've got to hit them where it hurts.
The only way it would be acceptable for Penn State's football program to continue is if every penny of revenue received from games, merchandise, television rights etc... were distributed in even shares to Sandusky's victims from now until the day the last one of them dies.
i voted NO....seems like a lot of people in batavia know what is best for everyone else...
the justice system has done it's job....it's over,get on with your life...
seems you holier than thou's have a bath salt problem to deal with.
.
Glad you voted No david, but to be honest, it isnt over obviously.... NCAA decided that with everything that came out in the justice system that some kind of response on their part is necessary. Since it is their job it seems everything is NOT over quite yet. The only holier that thou voice I hear is yours, whats the matter dont like seeing people stand up for something that just isnt right? Well I have a feeling your gonna see alot more of it, maybe this will give Batavia's supposed criminal element a reason to leave. The sleepy lil town is now pissed off. It would be just too bad if the police get busy with citizen tips that lead to arrests and convictions of the riff raff that seem to have thrived on the apathy like yours that is hopefully beginning to wane.
I know that often people who b*^ch about people being nosey and need to get on with their life are the ones that are usually involved in activities that they would rather not have scrutinized. Too f'n bad I say, you want to play you take your chances.
kyle,wake up,snap out of it.....riff raff (your term)has been around since the beginning,it'll be here long after you're gone.....if you think different,let me know when you get it cleaned up..
you're wrong,when you accuse me of not liking to see people stand up for something that isn't right...
tell me kyle,how do you feel about the catholic priests who "prey"(pun intended) on little boys?i think it's still happening..it isn't right kyle.where are all the people who are standing up for something that isn't right?
where are you for all these altar boys,kyle?too f'n bad,right?
So david your saying that it's a waste of time to stand up against the riff raff cause its been here before me and will after me. Sounds like your apathy is shining through. Believe me if I heard of catholic priests victimizing little boys here, I would be sounding off just as loud. Being Christian I hate what some christian sects are doing when it comes to this. I also spoke very strongly against Penn State as well and think the whole program should be banned for a few years from NCAA football.
But its interesting how you hide behind apathy, I imagine if we followed your recommeded way of dealing with public issues we'd still be under British Rule and have the Queen on our currency. I am wide awake and have nothing to snap out of...
Ever hear of Edmund Burke? He made 2 very wise observations that have often been quoted....
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing."
and
"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
So perhaps it is not me that needs to wake up and snap out of it......hmmmmm david?
David, it isnt just Batavia, its the whole f--in state, its like having way too many, Mrs. Kravitz living next door.
Kyle, growing up In Batavia was very interesting, there were at least 20 bars, or taverns concentrated within a few blocks of each other, there were drunks everywhere, and there was plenty of riff raff. Back then, we just ignored them, and then they went away.
Shutting down the football program would be cruel and unusual punishment for those who had nothing to do with
the actions of one very sick, twisted person.Is it time to shut down the churches?
Shut down the moral police, deal with what is on your own plate, and stop trying to ban every pet peeve that comes along, or, do it across the board. If I were a business man looking for a place to set up shop, Batavia would not make my list, for obvious reasons.
LOL Frank thats your take on it. Mine is that the drunks either joined AA or are in jail for their offenses and so the multitude of bars closed from lack of business not from being ignored.
The people who made the decision to ruin Penn State's reputation are more than just one individual, its not cruel and unusual punishment for the players they can go to other football colleges, rememeber though college isnt for just football.
Why close all the churches, are you using generalizations again? Not all churches have abuse going on just like all people that drink arent alcoholics, its easy to make blanket statements when you want to make a point.
Your obviously not a business man, so who cares if you will or wont set up shop here. REAL business men and women who's livelyhood depend on making good decisions do come here and do set up shop, which contradicts your "what if" situation.
By the way my brother in law who is an active member of AA and in recovery has looked at your tirades her as of late. By the very definitions of the program you obviously are not in recovery at all......maybe you should deal with whats on your own plate as well.
It is so easy to state "those players can get scholarships elsewhere". Given Penn State's reputation as a football powerhouse, odds are even the 85th best scholarship player (FBS programs are allowed 85 scholarships on its roster at any given time) can hook up at another school.
However, that means there are 85 students at other colleges who will NOT get scholarships and be SOL. A couple of years ago two Mormon missionaries stopped at my neighbor's place. During the conversation they stated only 144,000 will make it to heaven - she responded "If I get in, which of you two won't?" That sophomore linebacker from Penn State transferring to Va Tech will take a scholarship some other kid would have had.
However, if @Mark (#11) is correct, this becomes a lesser point, as some of the players will remain at PS.
Kill the program for a year or two, maybe, but allow the kids to keep the scholarships. Definitely keep them from any bowls for a few years.
I might also point out, there is a wide array of punishments the NCAA can dish out
- Forbid Penn State any television coverage of games fopr a year or two
- No Bowl Games for a year or two
- A revenue Levy
- Probation which limits recruiting
All of which would cost Penn State Millions of dollars. It is presumptious at this p[oint to predict exactly what punishment the NCAA will hand down, but rest assurred, they will hand down something.
When the SMU program was suspended 87-88 The players were still aloowed to work out {No Pads though) and study playbook packages. The scholarships were maintained.
Kyle, tell your inlaw to worry about his/her own inventory, whatever program I am working, it has kept me sober for 11+ years, that is all that is important to me.
One other thought to chew Kyle, look at all the BS that was directed at the yogurt plant, Batavia will always over scrutinize everything that comes its way, and then bitch when they get what they asked for.
Again, my argument isn't about the drug of peoples choice, whatever that drug may be, my argument is about personal freedoms, and equal use of law for all drugs, not just the ones some dislike.
Most of the bars were torn down as part of urban renewal, not for lack of willing customers.
Don't misinterperate my opinion with a tirade, read slower if it helps.
Kudos to whoever (whomever?) came up with and/or is enacting "Football players are also allowed to quit the football team and keep their scholarships while continuing to attend the university in pursuit of a degree." (Thanks Mark#11 for stating this in your comment)
Since the entire program has
Since the entire program has been proven to be complicit in covering up for that lower than dog shit life form that calls himself a man, I say: Absolutely and for a very long time.
Give the kids in the program an extra year of eligibility at another school, done deal.
Well said Chris. What
Well said Chris. What happened at Penn State did not happen in a vacuum it was a conspiracy that covered up for Sandusky, with Paterno, his staff, the administration and we can only guess how many others in an effort to escape justice. The football program needs to be killed until the full extent of the cover-up is exposed with those responsible brought to justice and those who were harmed restored to as near whole as possible.
Unfortunately, shutting down
Unfortunately, shutting down Penn State's football program will not harm the people responsible - they have (for the most part) already been purged from the system. Any remaining with any culpability should also be removed.
Shutting down the entire program will hurt those 50-70(?) kids on scholarship. The perv is going to jail already, Paterno's dead and his reputation appropriately tarnished. But that sophomore linebacker who had no knowledge of what was going on? Shut down the program , and odds are somebody will not finish college (even if that sophomore is able to transfer to another school, he'll take a scholarship away from somebody there).
The point of shutting down
The point of shutting down the program isn't to punish anybody. It's to send a message that this sort of thing will not be tolerated by the NCAA. To not take such a serious step -- in full recognition to what it will mean for current members of the program -- sends the wrong message.
As with many issues in this
As with many issues in this country, things like this are not proactive. They are reactive. I'm assuming everyone involved with this has been removed. So now you bring in fresh people to fix the program, and then punish them? This is a reactive approach, and while it may feel like justice to punish a name becuase of what a group of scumbags who worked for that name did, I don't think it is sending any message. What is done from this point on to the people who committed the crime is the messageIt may not be the right thing. But that is where the message needs to be aimed.
If the scholarships are your
If the scholarships are your problem, then simply add that in and make Penn State responsible for paying the kids' ride at another school.
Anyone who cares even a little bit about Penn State's football program right now has a serious problem with priorities.
The assumption that everyone
The assumption that everyone who was involved has been removed seems premature at best. There are many more questions that have been raised that have not been addressed or answered at this point. Freeh's report is clearly indicates that there was a substantial conspiracy to cover up and obstruct any prosecution of Sandusky as well as statements by the administration that they were concerned that he be treated humanely. Humanely? They have an eyewitness to his buggering a minor in a shower and the concern is treating this pedophile "humanely". The investigation and resolution of what happened, who knew what and what the penalty should be is just starting to truly take shape. During the interim the Penn State football program should be suspended until the investigations are completed and all of those who had any responsibility are brought to justice.
Those with scholarships can stay and get an education or go elsewhere, they just won't play football.
Shutting down the football
Shutting down the football program is the American way, punish all for the actions of few, or is that called political correctness.
The fact that football and
The fact that football and other sports programs are a large source of income for many universities is primarily the reason why incidents like this as well as cheating scandals, rape cover ups and other forms of bad behavior are swept under the rug.
The NCAA punishes schools when things of this nature are revealed not to punish those involved, but also to serve as a consequence for other schools turning a blind eye to improprieties.
Penn State racked in millions of dollars during this period, more so than the majority of schools across the nation, that in essence was the impetus for many in the program to turn a blind eye. If the school is not punished, there is no consequence, and no consequence only minimizes the schools perceived need to maintain an acceptable standard. The old saying, “Follow the Money” applies here in a big way.
With regard to the students and scholarships, I would venture to say that they will be offered scholarship opportunities at other schools, while inconvenient, the talented young men in the football program will surely in the end find placement simply because other schools will seek their talent.
The other effect of suspension is that the recruiting prospects in the future will be severely diminished. This has happened to several schools since the NCAA’s inception. Schools have been suspended for much less.
Penn State is every bit the entity that it’s staff and administrators are, to simple say those involved should be punished not the school, is short cited.
The death penalty is the popular term for the National Collegiate Athletic Association's power to ban a school from competing in a sport for at least one year. It is the harshest penalty that an NCAA member school can receive.
It has been implemented only five times:
1.The University of Kentucky basketball program for the 1952–53 season.
2.The basketball program at the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette) for the 1973–74 and 1974–75 seasons.
3.The Southern Methodist University football program for the 1987 and 1988 seasons.
4.The Division II men's soccer program at Morehouse College for the 2004 and 2005 seasons.
5.The Division III men's tennis program at MacMurray College for the 2005–06 and 2006–07 seasons.
If the schools program is
If the schools program is suspended, it is still obligated to pay the scholarships previously awarded.
Howard is right shutting down
Howard is right shutting down the program would be to set an example other schools that covering up this behavior will have repercussions. If you shut down the program now you will be punishing the students currently enrolled. I say let them finish out the program and in 3 years you shut them down for a few years. This will allow the seniors and juniors to finish out their years without any problems and the sophomores and freshmen should be able to transfer out to different schools.
Mark is dead on in that this
Mark is dead on in that this was always about money, follow the money. I don't know whether or not the football program should be shut down, but Penn State ought to be directed by the NCAA to pay a substantial amount of the precious dollars toward programs that work against pedophiles. They should also offer extensive training to everyone in their employ about child abuse and endangerment. You've got to hit them where it hurts.
The only way it would be
The only way it would be acceptable for Penn State's football program to continue is if every penny of revenue received from games, merchandise, television rights etc... were distributed in even shares to Sandusky's victims from now until the day the last one of them dies.
i voted NO....seems like a
i voted NO....seems like a lot of people in batavia know what is best for everyone else...
the justice system has done it's job....it's over,get on with your life...
seems you holier than thou's have a bath salt problem to deal with.
.
Glad you voted No david, but
Glad you voted No david, but to be honest, it isnt over obviously.... NCAA decided that with everything that came out in the justice system that some kind of response on their part is necessary. Since it is their job it seems everything is NOT over quite yet. The only holier that thou voice I hear is yours, whats the matter dont like seeing people stand up for something that just isnt right? Well I have a feeling your gonna see alot more of it, maybe this will give Batavia's supposed criminal element a reason to leave. The sleepy lil town is now pissed off. It would be just too bad if the police get busy with citizen tips that lead to arrests and convictions of the riff raff that seem to have thrived on the apathy like yours that is hopefully beginning to wane.
I know that often people who b*^ch about people being nosey and need to get on with their life are the ones that are usually involved in activities that they would rather not have scrutinized. Too f'n bad I say, you want to play you take your chances.
kyle,wake up,snap out of
kyle,wake up,snap out of it.....riff raff (your term)has been around since the beginning,it'll be here long after you're gone.....if you think different,let me know when you get it cleaned up..
you're wrong,when you accuse me of not liking to see people stand up for something that isn't right...
tell me kyle,how do you feel about the catholic priests who "prey"(pun intended) on little boys?i think it's still happening..it isn't right kyle.where are all the people who are standing up for something that isn't right?
where are you for all these altar boys,kyle?too f'n bad,right?
So david your saying that
So david your saying that it's a waste of time to stand up against the riff raff cause its been here before me and will after me. Sounds like your apathy is shining through. Believe me if I heard of catholic priests victimizing little boys here, I would be sounding off just as loud. Being Christian I hate what some christian sects are doing when it comes to this. I also spoke very strongly against Penn State as well and think the whole program should be banned for a few years from NCAA football.
But its interesting how you hide behind apathy, I imagine if we followed your recommeded way of dealing with public issues we'd still be under British Rule and have the Queen on our currency. I am wide awake and have nothing to snap out of...
Ever hear of Edmund Burke? He made 2 very wise observations that have often been quoted....
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing."
and
"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
So perhaps it is not me that needs to wake up and snap out of it......hmmmmm david?
David, it isnt just Batavia,
David, it isnt just Batavia, its the whole f--in state, its like having way too many, Mrs. Kravitz living next door.
Kyle, growing up In Batavia was very interesting, there were at least 20 bars, or taverns concentrated within a few blocks of each other, there were drunks everywhere, and there was plenty of riff raff. Back then, we just ignored them, and then they went away.
Shutting down the football program would be cruel and unusual punishment for those who had nothing to do with
the actions of one very sick, twisted person.Is it time to shut down the churches?
Shut down the moral police, deal with what is on your own plate, and stop trying to ban every pet peeve that comes along, or, do it across the board. If I were a business man looking for a place to set up shop, Batavia would not make my list, for obvious reasons.
LOL Frank thats your take on
LOL Frank thats your take on it. Mine is that the drunks either joined AA or are in jail for their offenses and so the multitude of bars closed from lack of business not from being ignored.
The people who made the decision to ruin Penn State's reputation are more than just one individual, its not cruel and unusual punishment for the players they can go to other football colleges, rememeber though college isnt for just football.
Why close all the churches, are you using generalizations again? Not all churches have abuse going on just like all people that drink arent alcoholics, its easy to make blanket statements when you want to make a point.
Your obviously not a business man, so who cares if you will or wont set up shop here. REAL business men and women who's livelyhood depend on making good decisions do come here and do set up shop, which contradicts your "what if" situation.
By the way my brother in law who is an active member of AA and in recovery has looked at your tirades her as of late. By the very definitions of the program you obviously are not in recovery at all......maybe you should deal with whats on your own plate as well.
It is so easy to state "those
It is so easy to state "those players can get scholarships elsewhere". Given Penn State's reputation as a football powerhouse, odds are even the 85th best scholarship player (FBS programs are allowed 85 scholarships on its roster at any given time) can hook up at another school.
However, that means there are 85 students at other colleges who will NOT get scholarships and be SOL. A couple of years ago two Mormon missionaries stopped at my neighbor's place. During the conversation they stated only 144,000 will make it to heaven - she responded "If I get in, which of you two won't?" That sophomore linebacker from Penn State transferring to Va Tech will take a scholarship some other kid would have had.
However, if @Mark (#11) is correct, this becomes a lesser point, as some of the players will remain at PS.
Kill the program for a year or two, maybe, but allow the kids to keep the scholarships. Definitely keep them from any bowls for a few years.
I might also point out, there
I might also point out, there is a wide array of punishments the NCAA can dish out
- Forbid Penn State any television coverage of games fopr a year or two
- No Bowl Games for a year or two
- A revenue Levy
- Probation which limits recruiting
All of which would cost Penn State Millions of dollars. It is presumptious at this p[oint to predict exactly what punishment the NCAA will hand down, but rest assurred, they will hand down something.
When the SMU program was suspended 87-88 The players were still aloowed to work out {No Pads though) and study playbook packages. The scholarships were maintained.
Kyle, tell your inlaw to
Kyle, tell your inlaw to worry about his/her own inventory, whatever program I am working, it has kept me sober for 11+ years, that is all that is important to me.
One other thought to chew Kyle, look at all the BS that was directed at the yogurt plant, Batavia will always over scrutinize everything that comes its way, and then bitch when they get what they asked for.
Again, my argument isn't about the drug of peoples choice, whatever that drug may be, my argument is about personal freedoms, and equal use of law for all drugs, not just the ones some dislike.
Most of the bars were torn down as part of urban renewal, not for lack of willing customers.
Don't misinterperate my opinion with a tirade, read slower if it helps.
The punishment is listed in
The punishment is listed in this article. http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/2012/07/this-is-what-happens-when-… (site may be NSFW)
Kudos to whoever (whomever?) came up with and/or is enacting "Football players are also allowed to quit the football team and keep their scholarships while continuing to attend the university in pursuit of a degree." (Thanks Mark#11 for stating this in your comment)