No in most cases people making this much are unemployed, underemployed, students, and or retired and none can afford it, in some cases taxing this bracket makes them eligible for a return at the end of the year which is more than the tax..
"The fact that most people who don’t owe federal income tax in a given year do pay substantial amounts of other taxes — and also are net income taxpayers over time — belies the claim that households that do not owe income tax in a given year will form bad policy judgments because they “don’t have any skin in the game.”
Furthermore, although the federal tax system is progressive overall, state and local tax systems are regressive and undo a significant share of that progressivity. There is nothing wrong with having one part of the overall tax system shield low- and moderate-income households, who pay substantial amounts of other taxes and generally pay federal income tax as well in other years.
To substantially increase the share of households that owe federal income tax, policymakers would have to take such steps as: lowering the personal exemption or standard deduction — which would tax many low-income working families into, or deeper into, poverty; weakening the EITC or Child Tax Credit, which would significantly increase child poverty while reducing incentives for work over welfare; or paring back the tax exclusion for Social Security benefits, which would subject more seniors with modest fixed incomes to the income tax."
The fact that some states tax income and others do not, has nothing to do with the federal income tax.
If you tax low wage earners at even 1-5%, then they are paying their fair share. If you want fairness, everyone has to pay. And when approx. 48% do not pay federal income tax, that is not fair.
I agree that everyone should pay something, but only if the tax code is simplified and the loopholes, credits and deductions are eliminated. Our tax system is cryptic, complicated and burdensome. The rich are the only ones who can afford tax attorneys, CPA's, and consultants to navigate the IRS tax code. There should be no reason that everyone doesn't contribute something.
Bud, a "tax consultant" only cost me $258/year. She was able to add things to my itemized deductions that I never thought of and more than paid for her own fee. People claim they can't afford things but I'm willing to bet that they could if they tried. My favorite line is: "Oh, I can't afford to go to the dentist." ...as they puff on a cigarette ($10/day habit) and drink a diet soda (also expensive).
I have to agree that our tax system is difficult to follow and is inefficient. Are you ready for BOcare? Your tax burden is about to get a whole lot more expensive. (In September 2009, during an interview with George Stephanopoulos, President Obama repeatedly insisted that the mandate was absolutely not a tax.)
I fall in that category. I feel a responsibility to pay my "FAIR" share. I'd like to see my contribution adjusted accordingly - and feel the same should be done for those in all bracket.
In my own personal tax history, when my husband was serving this country in the Marine Corp and we had a young family just starting out (before he made higher rank), our income was so low and we were so broke that we qualified for the earned income tax credit. We probably qualified for food stamps but never applied for them, although we did get WIC. We didn't stay perennially below that poverty level, just those early couple of years. All I can say was thank God for that income tax check. It paid for food and clothes and a yearly trip home to WNY to see family.
And now with so many low paying jobs, wages not keeping up with cost of living, high student loan debt, aging society depending on social security, public sector lay offs, very few living wage manufacturing jobs for skilled and semi skilled workers -- what are we left with? Stagnant and declining incomes with more people employed in retail and food service which pays much less than the jobs just a generation back. Putting more people at or below the poverty level.
And while some people have the skills to start a small business, some people just aren't capable and we see many falling between the cracks. Remember we're talking about people who actually are contributing with a job. So, if the solution is tax them more then somewhere along the way they may need a helping hand from another stream.
Actually Lorie, if you lower the over all tax rate together with eliminating loop holes, The rich do pay more in actual dollars.
I too remember as a young Marine many of my married friends struggled until they gained rank, but I also remember back then the pay rates were much, much lower than they are today.
I don't think anyone questions how tough it is for lower incomed people today, the real question underying this poll is what exactly is FAIR, and should FAIR even be part of the equation.
The more money sent to the Federal Government, the less hat the local government has for police officers and firetrucks, I know that is contrary to the campaign dribble, but that is the economic truth.
The real truth is, tax dollars could and in most cases would be spent more efficiently at the local level rather than the fed.
So when you really get down to it, it si the spending, not the taxing.
When I first started out in my career I barely made above minimum wage and I used that earned income credit every year to buy a car to hopefully get me to work for another year. I had some real hoopties back then! Eventually I made enough so that I no longer qualified for earned income credit and probably pay more annually in taxes now than I made in a whole year back then. My point is, sometimes it is worth the investment to help people with lower incomes so that they can be the taxpayers of tomorrow.
Doug,
The sad thing is that you even had to hire a tax consultant. The code needs to be redone. Get rid of all the deductions, credits and loopholes. Stop using the code for social policy purposes and adjust the rates so everyone pays at lest something.
I like the idea of a flat tax, but at least have everyone pay a little.
And as an example of using the tax code to push social or political agendas. One of my good friends just bought a Chevy Volt. He said he could never have afforded it if it was not for all the tax credits he will get (He said a bit over $10,000). That means all of us who pay federal taxes helped him buy his new car with our money.
Just to be clear Mark, the medal winners receive prize money from the Olympic Committee, i.e. $25000 for gold, $15000 for silver, $10000 for bronze so they are actually being taxed on the prize money, not for the medal. I agree that it shouldn't be taxed at all though.
Chris, three former olympians and Gold/Silver and bronze winners claim that it is in fact true, they also supported that deductions offset that.
Mostly Bullshit, probably, but the starting tax rate for them is in fact at the 35% level. It really doesn't matter that deductions do offset it, what matters is that is that it sends a fine message to those who compete representing us.
I had no idea Batavia was so full of tax experts. Federal income tax generates the revenue required to fund our security, our infrastructure, and our well being. Whether you realize it or not, you benefit from these federal services every day. If you have success- pay your taxes. If you have failure- pay your taxes.The successful should not be held liable for the unsuccessful. If you do not believe you benefit from our federal services then then go elsewhere- and pay your taxes there.
I see no reason why the income tax couldn't be a flat tax just like Social Security is. Everyone should pay their fair share.
If you want a progressive tax structure that makes the rich pay more then eliminate the cap on social security and put taxes back on dividends and capital gains the way they used to be. Most people making under $60,000/yr aren't so worried about capital gains and dividends, and if they are then institute a income limit as to when capital gains and dividends taxes kick in (say $250,000/yr since that seems to be the number everyone uses).
The 15 or 20% rate on cap gains and dividends is how Warren Buffett ends up paying less tax than his secretary. He doesn't make much of a salary--just capital gains and dividends, which have their own rates. Plus he can still deduct all his donations through charity against any salary does have.
I know this all goes against my conservative leanings, but it is the only way we are going to get folks to understand that all these government programs cost something and get the rich to also understand that eventually the double digit trillion hole the US has is going to sink them as well.
I don't think anyone Dave was questioning the fact that we have to pay taxes, I believe the question is whether or not those who are successful should be pauing for those less successful.
Progressive tax structures are part of the Communist Manifesto.
Lorie, why should we feel bad that you and your family when you chose to put yourself in that situation.
"low paying jobs, wages not keeping up with cost of living, high student loan debt, aging society depending on social security, public sector lay offs, very few living wage manufacturing jobs for skilled and semi skilled workers -- what are we left with?"
Low paying jobs are the result of you demanding cheaper goods.
Wages not keeping up? Since when? I have never had that problem in the 15 years I have been working.
High student loan debt was a choice the student made, not our problem, and not one for the government to solve.
depending on SS is also a personal fault, not others responsibility
Public sector layoffs happen, its part of life, make yourself more marketable and move on.
"Living Wage" is a term used by the left to hide the fact that our "poor" are the richest poor people on the planet.
I am only a skilled worker, only a high school degree and some military training that was worth 0 credit at RIT. I haven't had problems keeping my job or finding new work. I make 40k a year now after starting at 29K, made that move over 6 years with the company.
If you want success you have to go out and find it, its not going to come to you and sitting on your ass collecting a government check isn't searching.
There is no reason that the people who make money should be punished for doing so.
No in most cases people
No in most cases people making this much are unemployed, underemployed, students, and or retired and none can afford it, in some cases taxing this bracket makes them eligible for a return at the end of the year which is more than the tax..
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3505
"The fact that most people who don’t owe federal income tax in a given year do pay substantial amounts of other taxes — and also are net income taxpayers over time — belies the claim that households that do not owe income tax in a given year will form bad policy judgments because they “don’t have any skin in the game.”
Furthermore, although the federal tax system is progressive overall, state and local tax systems are regressive and undo a significant share of that progressivity. There is nothing wrong with having one part of the overall tax system shield low- and moderate-income households, who pay substantial amounts of other taxes and generally pay federal income tax as well in other years.
To substantially increase the share of households that owe federal income tax, policymakers would have to take such steps as: lowering the personal exemption or standard deduction — which would tax many low-income working families into, or deeper into, poverty; weakening the EITC or Child Tax Credit, which would significantly increase child poverty while reducing incentives for work over welfare; or paring back the tax exclusion for Social Security benefits, which would subject more seniors with modest fixed incomes to the income tax."
The fact that some states tax
The fact that some states tax income and others do not, has nothing to do with the federal income tax.
If you tax low wage earners at even 1-5%, then they are paying their fair share. If you want fairness, everyone has to pay. And when approx. 48% do not pay federal income tax, that is not fair.
I agree that everyone should
I agree that everyone should pay something, but only if the tax code is simplified and the loopholes, credits and deductions are eliminated. Our tax system is cryptic, complicated and burdensome. The rich are the only ones who can afford tax attorneys, CPA's, and consultants to navigate the IRS tax code. There should be no reason that everyone doesn't contribute something.
Bud, a "tax consultant" only
Bud, a "tax consultant" only cost me $258/year. She was able to add things to my itemized deductions that I never thought of and more than paid for her own fee. People claim they can't afford things but I'm willing to bet that they could if they tried. My favorite line is: "Oh, I can't afford to go to the dentist." ...as they puff on a cigarette ($10/day habit) and drink a diet soda (also expensive).
I have to agree that our tax system is difficult to follow and is inefficient. Are you ready for BOcare? Your tax burden is about to get a whole lot more expensive. (In September 2009, during an interview with George Stephanopoulos, President Obama repeatedly insisted that the mandate was absolutely not a tax.)
I fall in that category. I
I fall in that category. I feel a responsibility to pay my "FAIR" share. I'd like to see my contribution adjusted accordingly - and feel the same should be done for those in all bracket.
I wish I could give you 30
I wish I could give you 30 thumbs up Lisa, as things go, I gave you the only one that I could, ;)
In my own personal tax
In my own personal tax history, when my husband was serving this country in the Marine Corp and we had a young family just starting out (before he made higher rank), our income was so low and we were so broke that we qualified for the earned income tax credit. We probably qualified for food stamps but never applied for them, although we did get WIC. We didn't stay perennially below that poverty level, just those early couple of years. All I can say was thank God for that income tax check. It paid for food and clothes and a yearly trip home to WNY to see family.
And now with so many low paying jobs, wages not keeping up with cost of living, high student loan debt, aging society depending on social security, public sector lay offs, very few living wage manufacturing jobs for skilled and semi skilled workers -- what are we left with? Stagnant and declining incomes with more people employed in retail and food service which pays much less than the jobs just a generation back. Putting more people at or below the poverty level.
And while some people have the skills to start a small business, some people just aren't capable and we see many falling between the cracks. Remember we're talking about people who actually are contributing with a job. So, if the solution is tax them more then somewhere along the way they may need a helping hand from another stream.
Actually Lorie, if you lower
Actually Lorie, if you lower the over all tax rate together with eliminating loop holes, The rich do pay more in actual dollars.
I too remember as a young Marine many of my married friends struggled until they gained rank, but I also remember back then the pay rates were much, much lower than they are today.
I don't think anyone questions how tough it is for lower incomed people today, the real question underying this poll is what exactly is FAIR, and should FAIR even be part of the equation.
The more money sent to the Federal Government, the less hat the local government has for police officers and firetrucks, I know that is contrary to the campaign dribble, but that is the economic truth.
The real truth is, tax dollars could and in most cases would be spent more efficiently at the local level rather than the fed.
So when you really get down to it, it si the spending, not the taxing.
When I first started out in
When I first started out in my career I barely made above minimum wage and I used that earned income credit every year to buy a car to hopefully get me to work for another year. I had some real hoopties back then! Eventually I made enough so that I no longer qualified for earned income credit and probably pay more annually in taxes now than I made in a whole year back then. My point is, sometimes it is worth the investment to help people with lower incomes so that they can be the taxpayers of tomorrow.
Doug, The sad thing is that
Doug,
The sad thing is that you even had to hire a tax consultant. The code needs to be redone. Get rid of all the deductions, credits and loopholes. Stop using the code for social policy purposes and adjust the rates so everyone pays at lest something.
I like the idea of a flat tax, but at least have everyone pay a little.
And as an example of using the tax code to push social or political agendas. One of my good friends just bought a Chevy Volt. He said he could never have afforded it if it was not for all the tax credits he will get (He said a bit over $10,000). That means all of us who pay federal taxes helped him buy his new car with our money.
Our Progressive Tax Structure
Our Progressive Tax Structure At Work
If you are an Olympian this is your part toward Fairness
If you win any of the following medals you will be taxed by the IRS as follows upon your return stateside.
Gold Medal - $8,986 Each Medal
Silver Medal - 5,385 Each Medal
Bronze Medal - $3,502 Each Medal
I love how we reward achievement
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/08/02/us-olympic-medalists-taxed-as-much…
Just to be clear Mark, the
Just to be clear Mark, the medal winners receive prize money from the Olympic Committee, i.e. $25000 for gold, $15000 for silver, $10000 for bronze so they are actually being taxed on the prize money, not for the medal. I agree that it shouldn't be taxed at all though.
Just so you know, Mark,
Just so you know, Mark, that's mostly bullshit:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/01/american…
That is correct Beth, do the
That is correct Beth, do the math that is at the 35% tax rate..
Our reward is too tax our representing atheletes at the highest tax rate that we have, becasue it is classified as winnings NOT regular income.
But hey, why not right? (Sarcasm)
Chris, three former olympians
Chris, three former olympians and Gold/Silver and bronze winners claim that it is in fact true, they also supported that deductions offset that.
Mostly Bullshit, probably, but the starting tax rate for them is in fact at the 35% level. It really doesn't matter that deductions do offset it, what matters is that is that it sends a fine message to those who compete representing us.
I had no idea Batavia was so
I had no idea Batavia was so full of tax experts. Federal income tax generates the revenue required to fund our security, our infrastructure, and our well being. Whether you realize it or not, you benefit from these federal services every day. If you have success- pay your taxes. If you have failure- pay your taxes.The successful should not be held liable for the unsuccessful. If you do not believe you benefit from our federal services then then go elsewhere- and pay your taxes there.
I see no reason why the
I see no reason why the income tax couldn't be a flat tax just like Social Security is. Everyone should pay their fair share.
If you want a progressive tax structure that makes the rich pay more then eliminate the cap on social security and put taxes back on dividends and capital gains the way they used to be. Most people making under $60,000/yr aren't so worried about capital gains and dividends, and if they are then institute a income limit as to when capital gains and dividends taxes kick in (say $250,000/yr since that seems to be the number everyone uses).
The 15 or 20% rate on cap gains and dividends is how Warren Buffett ends up paying less tax than his secretary. He doesn't make much of a salary--just capital gains and dividends, which have their own rates. Plus he can still deduct all his donations through charity against any salary does have.
I know this all goes against my conservative leanings, but it is the only way we are going to get folks to understand that all these government programs cost something and get the rich to also understand that eventually the double digit trillion hole the US has is going to sink them as well.
I don't think anyone Dave was
I don't think anyone Dave was questioning the fact that we have to pay taxes, I believe the question is whether or not those who are successful should be pauing for those less successful.
Lets start by making Churches
Lets start by making Churches pay taxes.
Progressive tax structures
Progressive tax structures are part of the Communist Manifesto.
Lorie, why should we feel bad that you and your family when you chose to put yourself in that situation.
"low paying jobs, wages not keeping up with cost of living, high student loan debt, aging society depending on social security, public sector lay offs, very few living wage manufacturing jobs for skilled and semi skilled workers -- what are we left with?"
Low paying jobs are the result of you demanding cheaper goods.
Wages not keeping up? Since when? I have never had that problem in the 15 years I have been working.
High student loan debt was a choice the student made, not our problem, and not one for the government to solve.
depending on SS is also a personal fault, not others responsibility
Public sector layoffs happen, its part of life, make yourself more marketable and move on.
"Living Wage" is a term used by the left to hide the fact that our "poor" are the richest poor people on the planet.
I am only a skilled worker, only a high school degree and some military training that was worth 0 credit at RIT. I haven't had problems keeping my job or finding new work. I make 40k a year now after starting at 29K, made that move over 6 years with the company.
If you want success you have to go out and find it, its not going to come to you and sitting on your ass collecting a government check isn't searching.
There is no reason that the people who make money should be punished for doing so.
BRING ON THE FAIR TAX