On 4-5 vote, city council decides to keep pay raise of $1,500 annually in budget

I personally think this is a load of crap. Why not let the people vote on it if you're so confident.

I serve on a board that has a much larger budget, and we are volunteers. That is what being a community volunteer should be. I agree with those who voted no, and I really think it's time that some of these people leave.

Please tell me why they are voting on a 16% tax decrease? Because of the garbage issue. An issue that is not technically lowering a single cost, but merely repurposing a tax to a fee. What have you really done?

If you really believe that you deserve a paycheck to serve on one of these boards/councils, then you shouldn't be there. Community Service is an obligation of freedom.

Just stupid to me.

So you deserve more money because you proved you can work together? You deserve more money because you can take crap? And you have the audacity to vote yourself raises when we are increasing the number of vacant buildings in the city, when our citizens are losing purchasing power hand over fist, and when you are supposed to be serving your fellow citizens?

Bravo to council members Cipollone, Doeringer, Hawley and Pacino for having the integrity to vote against such an ill-positioned arrogant self-serving proposal.

There should have been only one pay proposal and it should be on the docket every session until it is approved: eliminate pay for council positions.

Serve your community or get out of the way so someone else can.

Robert,
There was a notice in the Daily News that said the local Democrats are looking for candidates for this years Council election. I am sure they would love to speak with you. Phil Ricci is starting up the Libertarian Party locally and he might be interested in talking with you. You could talk with the Conservatives. I don't know if all three Republicans are running again, maybe you can talk with them. There are 3 At Large seats up, so go for it.

John,

Bob is very involved with our group.

Phil,
Just wanted to give your party a bit of publicity. Hope you can run him in November.

If I happened to run and win I would not want pay for serving. And I just put that in writing. If I was "forced" to take pay, I would donate every penny to Justice for Children.

I have to agree with Phil here. The citizens and taxpayers of Batavia should be the ones who decide if council members deserve a raise. Make it a referendum and put it on the ballot. Then the argument and anguish will be settled one way or the other. I'm not saying if they do or do not deserve a raise, again that is for the people to decide, not for council to decide either.

Robert,
Former councilman Sam Barone said the same thing. By law, you have to be paid. What Sam did was donate the money back to the City (I think to the Youth Bureau). As for putting it in writing, I would think your word would be good enough, don't you?

Before everyone gets too carried away with the referendum issue, it in New York State, requires a petition and can not just be randomly called for.

First, one starting that petition would have to contact the board of elections to see if the issue is even permissible under New York's New referendum law

Then the necessary signatures have to be acquired, and only then can the issue be placed on the ballot.

The council can't just put it to a referendum

Mark, what's your point? It's not impossible and the people should decide the issue.

"i personally think this is a load of crap" doesn't sound like the best way to open dialog , maybe in a bar but not in this type of forum...just sayin

If you have to say "Just sayin" you probably don't have a leg to stand on. In this case "this is a load of crap" was right on the money.

jason,when someone makes a statement to me that an issue is a load of crap,all i can hear is that if i voice another opinion, it is falling on deaf ears and there is no sense in me wasting my breath..a true leader would not be so shallow minded....just saying

You never made a point. You never said anything. The only thing you did was attack his choice of phrase. And believing in something passionately is exactly the quality that has made the very best leaders our country has ever seen. I don't see "shallow minded", I see ready for change.

Those who were against the raise can just donated it back to the city..Those who feel they deserve it such as Mr.Canale who was against it and now he's for it because of all the hard work he did all year Can keep it....He will make a good politician.Talks out of both sides of his mouth...I understand paying for costs tied to being on council...Money shouldn't have to come out of ones pocket to do council work..But Mr.Canale lets not use the phrase ..We worked hard all year and we need that raise now,you are the one who voted against last year......Quit playing politics.....So next year if you don't work so hard you will want your pay decreased..

If you don't like the raise, the first in 19 years, then: (1) run for Council (2) vote for somebody else.
It is not hard to figure out.
But the vast majority are not going to run (don't know why since it's so easy and a duty to do).

And running is not all that hard. Finding money to advertise is not easy, unless backed by a major party. But running is easy to do as an individual. You just have to put in a lot of time (for free).

It should probably be changed from "pay" to "reimbursement" because that's all this really is. Our councilpersons spend quite a bit of time in their roles, use gas to get to and from meetings, etc., and are basically on-call every day. I consider what they do for us is volunteer work, but it's costly for them to do so. I have no problem with upping their reimbursement. I wouldn't want their roles for anything!

My point was Dave, that since 2011, in NY, if a constituency disagrees with a vote by elected officials, They can petition to place the item on a referendum ballot, there are limitations to this, if someone feels strongly about this they can initiate it by going to the board of elections and starting a petition.

The council as a matter of law votes under this issue as a budgetary matter. the citizen can initiate a petition in some cases to have a referendum vote, It was not a negative as you perceived it

I'll confess, Mark to a bit of over-reaction. Impulse control is not one of my strong points. LOL. I do feel strongly, although about the common person having a say in his/her government. Since I don't live in Batavia, I can't most likely initiate a petition concerning this, and I'm not saying I would. I don't know if they should receive a raise or not, just that it should not be decided by the council themselves.

In perspective.

1) City council people are usually available to their constituents 24/7/365

2) They use their own personal vehicles, phones and such conducting business on their constituents behalf. Including their own gas.

3) In addition to regular council meetings they attend meetings from different organizations through out the city, and various other not so well known activities.

@ $2000/year this equals $38.46/ week or $5.48/day $0.12 per city resident per year
@ $3500/year this equals $67.31/week or $9.59/day $0.21 per city resident per year

Now, should the constituents decide on the pay? In a perfect world yes.

Could one consider this a job? Maybe in West New Guinea.

To me this sounds much more like reimbursement than salary, unfortunately some of the commentary by council members both for and against in my opinion made this much more of an issue than it needed to be.

Honestly, are there not more pressing issues facing the city?

There is very little that is more pressing than allowing taxpayers to set the parameters of an elected body.

ok jason,name me five of these passionate leaders.....

Sorry you dislike my choice of phrase, Dave, but I wasn't saying it to impress you or anyone else, just how I feel.

Mark and Lori,

I flatly refuse to believe that they should reimbursed at all for this. If being available to your constituents is too much work, then don't run for office. I know that in the long the amount means nothing, but I think it's an ridiculous that they voted themselves a raise. That indicates that they are their own bosses, and that is not reality. Reality is that the people are their bosses, and they should have the say.

Also Mark, you are incorrect. Council voted to place a referendum on whether they should receive a raise about 8 years ago. It was rejected by the people. It would not set precedent to do it again, and they did not need a petition.

Thank you for correcting me Phil, however, petition to put on a referendum is still an option in NY State as of 2011.

With regard to your position as to whether there should be compensation for council members, that is your opinion, I respect that, just don't share it.

There are however, far more pressing and costly issues in my opinion that face the city. I suppose we just are picking different battles.

I agree, Mark. There are FAR more important and costly issues than this. Issues that have not been addressed.

I am not picking this battle, just commenting on something that they brought forward. I value you opinion though, so thanks!

Council people should be drafted into service for one year terms. Pull two names out of a fish bowl and put them on the ballot.

Then I wonder who would be against reimbursing them for their expenses.

Knowing how much time and money Charlie spent just running around meeting people who wanted to talk with him, the number he had over to his home to talk with him, the meetings he went to, he makes a great point.

"Doeringer said increasing council pay is moving service on the council into a career, not community service."

Getting paid $3,500 rather than $2,000 makes the job A CAREER?!? If that is the case, I would want Doeringer and his entire family on my payroll! If I could get away with paying my employees that kind of "career" pay, my income would jump tens of thousands of dollars extra annually.*

Look - folks who serve on these types of boards or commissions do not do so for the money. However, the time spent doing work for the boards and commissions is not without cost. The sentiment of "reimbursement" is spot-on, but for legal reasons it's called "pay" - Ms. Silvernail describes it very well.

*if I actually had a business and employees, rather than working for somebody else.