The complete secrecy and total lack of accountability to the people of the USA, not to mention disregard for the sanctity of the original 10 amendments to our US Constitution is disgusting and appalling. Thank God for Edward Snowden, he is a brave man, the Patrick Henry of our time. The powers that be in the intelligence gathering area of our government will seek to ruin him or worse for doing this. Note: I use the term "Our government" quite loosely.
"When the American people find out how their government has secretly interpreted the Patriot Act, they are going to be stunned, and they are going to be angry … many members of Congress have no idea how the law is being secretly interpreted by the executive branch, because that interpretation is classified. It's almost as if there were two Patriot Acts, and many members of Congress have not read the one that matters."
Whats the difference of your government going door to door or snooping thru your personal computer..I think he is a great public servant to bring all this to light and show how wide spread the government reach has become...
Having spent most of my Marine Corps Career in Intelligence, I have mixed feelings about this entire affair. As to whether Snowden is a Hero or Traitor, I say he is a little of both.
1) He, even as a civilian contractor took an oath as did I regarding what he can publically say. I hold that oath sacred.
2) There are channels through Congress that are well known to people in the Intelligence community to bring illegalities and such to light through congress.
That said, the data mining of domestic information by the NSA is clearly way out of the scope of the NSA mission as that is specific to foreign communications.
What is clear here, is that the spirit of the Patriot Act has not been followed, even it's author in recent days has stated that this operation goes way beyond the intended scope of the law.
That said, Snowden was fired by the company contracted on June 1st 2010 for a lack of ethics and risky behavior, something that is being left out of this story. He is no saint, and it is apparent that he may not be doing this for such noble reasons as are being portrayed.
To be clear, I am strongly concerned about how the Patriot Act is being misused and have grave concerns about The Prism Project in particular. But I am in no way ready to paint this guy a Hero, and the violation of his oath does in fact, make him a traitor. While he did in fact reveal information that leads me to question the judgment and motives of many officials in the administration, he also is in CHINA right now where he potentially can reveal substantial and legitimate parts of our National Intelligence Infrastructure.. These two do not wash with me.
Mark, I, too, believe that the (gov't) has gone too far. One of the problems is the wording of these (Laws?/Acts?). Sure, the 'author' of the ACT says it goes beyond the idea behind it. Well, then, he wasn't a very good author, was he?
It's like a contract. If you don't put into writing some way to 'control' ALL contingincies, don't cry 'It's not how we wanted it to be".
Somewhere in that document, there SHOULD HAVE BEEN a way to 'control' things.
As for Snowden, I'll leave judgement up to others much more knowledgeble than me.
Again, I am beginning to see this guy more and more as an opportunist.
As I previously stated, he was fired from a contractor that had him working for the CIA on June 1st 2010
He began communicating with the reporter from the guardian in February, strangely he wasn't hired by the company working for the NSA until April. Two months after he first met with the reporter, and two months PRIOR to him having access to the information he has been releasing.
Do you think, Mark that maybe the media at the behest of our esteemed President and the intelligence community could possibly be helping with a smear campaign against this guy? I sure don't trust them. Why else would he have gone to a British news company to begin with? As for your assertion about his violating his security clearance oath, Does that include un-constitutional activities? Saying that there are avenues to report illegalities is kinda disingenuous, you know full well that all government bureaucracies have their own political elements inside them and this would have gone nowhere and he would have been buried and discredited and tossed out. The element of surprise was the only way to get this out in the open. He has also said, if you watch the video interview with Glen Greenwald that he is not disclosing anything that harms national security or puts lives at risk. Contrary to to the bloviations of the NSA, CIA, Obama et al.
Just because he has a security clearence does not mean he had any access to that level of information. I highly doubt his level of clearence would give him access to the info he claims to know, unless he is being fed info by another person.
Not in this case Dave, Hire and fire dates are indisputable.
Trust me when I say I am no fan of our President, especially on matters of constitutional rights. I have a ton of indiscretions I am just dying for to enter the fray here.
But with regard to Snowden, ask your self two questions,
1) Why is he in China when China is clearly engaged in a sort of cyber skirmish with us now.
Snowden is quoted as saying he chose Hong Kong because it has a "spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent"
Hong Kong is controlled by CHINA, the same CHINA that drove tanks over young protesters a few short years ago.
2) Snowden was said to have worked on IT security for the CIA and by 2007 was stationed with diplomatic cover in Geneva, responsible for maintaining computer network security.
"Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the world," he says. "I realized that I was part of something that was doing far more harm than good."
NEWS FLASH, the CIA office in GENEVA deals solely with foreign intelligence in Europe Yet he was fired for "Ethical Violations" meaning he was poking his nose were it didn't belong in Intelligence Speak.
Frankly Dave, I have serious doubts about him having access to much of what he claims, He said in that video interview, " I can wire tap anyone I want at any time" There is no way a computer geek in the NSA would be granted that kind of access unchecked. No way.
Mark: I would take exception to (only) one part of your reply (after I concede to most of it)
1) There is NO LAW that can be crafted to eliminate murder. - Agreed!
2) There is NO LAW that is perfect and not subject to future amendment and change. - Agreed!
3) It is impossible to craft the perfect law - Agreed! "Perfect" is in the eyes of the perceiver - What one person thinks is 'perfect' may be seen by another as totally screwed-up.
But, I do think that if a law is written with "NO EXCEPTIONS ALLOWED", then it would mean just that.
For example (a dumb example, but it should suffice for this disagreement):
A law is written that says "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are you legally allowed to surpass 50mph on this certain stretch of highway".
Mark, are you able to come up with ANY way that you could surpass 50mph on that stretch of highway, without breaking THAT law? Maybe your accelerator stuck, and you had no way of slowing down. Still, you DID break that law. Maybe a tornado pushed you down that certain stretch at 51+mph. Out of your control? Sure it was. But, you DID STILL break THAT law. You surpassed 50mph.
Now, the cop might not cite you for speeding. And, even if he does, you probably would get the judge or jury to let you off. But, as the law is WRITTEN, you broke it.
I still see it as how the words IN the law are written. That's all I was saying. Now, it's possible that you could change my thinking, but you're gonna have to really work hard at it. I'd like to hear of any way you could surpass 50mph down that fictitous highway without breaking that law.
In my day, yes I agree that some contracted computer geek would not have unfettered access like he says. No possible way. But that was a long time ago and things are much different now. You've been out for a while too, I gather. Technology is far and away nothing like i would even recognize I surmise. And I think we both can relate instances of over-stepping being considered "initiative" if the right brown-noser did it. (That was never me, as you may have guessed)
"Ed there is NO LAW that can be crafted to 100% cover all contingencies."
That's a good argument against creating new laws, as I see it.
I don't find the dates terribly convincing ... people contact me all the time just to contact me ... part of how online news works now. Clearly, Snowden has prior political convictions that mesh well with Greenwald's (I've been more or less following Greenwald since his early blogging days.) So I find reading much into contact dates pretty unconvincing.
He may be overstating his access ... but he is in IT, so depending on network configuration, he could potentially go beyond the typical security clearance protocol of "need to know."
Whether flawed or not, whistle blowers do act as a check against unchecked government power. And if I were in his position, I wouldn't go to Congress. Do you trust Congress? Really? They're the ones that created this situation in the first place.
In the last 10 years or so, I have read much about how much more access and latitude contractors have been allowed. It may be unintentional, but it is happening.
That to me Dave is more of a problem in itself, beyond what info the government should gather and should not. Even very legitimate intelligence info being accessed by anyone without the Preverbal 'Need To Know' is troublesome.
The tail end of my career I worked on the actual transition from paper files and micro fiche to the computer based index, much of what is happening since the Bradley Manning affair and this guy Snowden were our major security concerns at that time.
My concern goes way beyond just this issue, here we have a High School Drop out, who failed to complete his initial enlistment in the Army, beginning his career as a security guard at the NSA moving up to be an IT security specialist at the Geneva Embassy under diplomatic cover, moving on to a private security from which he was fired for an ethical violation, which in fact is a security violation then two years later being hired by another contractor and granted another security clearance and in less than three months be privy to the most secret of our national intelligence organizations. He should have never received the second clearance at all, and even the first one was questionable at best.
One thing that really struck me as odd that Snowden said was. " I in my position could secretly wire tap anyone including the President if I had his email address from his laptop."
That is bullshit, While much can be garnered by a single email address, wire taping is not one of them I am very tech savvy, I personally can do a lot of things through my laptop but that is an incredible stretch a high school drop out like him could do what he says.
This guy isn't real, he is talking out his ass, and the scary part is that the little access he probably did have does not match up with the capabilities that he suggest.
Howard, the dates are very significant, I blame not the reporter, but what we used to refer to jokingly in the Corps as my 'Keen Analytical Mind' these dates indicate to me that Snowden was embarking on a glory hunt, not a legitimate whistle blower, but a quest for fame (Or infamy] and fortune
On the converse side, if he had the access he claims, then this administration has totally thrown away any responsible vetting for security clearance which is way more troubling to me than the Data Mining itself.
I agree with you totally, that there are too many laws, most of them simply feel good laws in the first place.
But that does not preclude the need for specific laws to address specific issues, it just means that laws should be well vetted before passing.
The problem we have with laws passed by congress in my opinion is that in the quest to cover every contingency, our legislators create 1200 page monsters that in themselves create more contingencies.
I don't disagree with you Mark. The power and access being given to private contractors is a huge problem. That does not BTW mean I want a bigger security apparatus. As a Libertarian I support the national party's position.
"We are the only party that has called for scrapping the National Defense Authorization Act, the Patriot Act, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and the downsizing of all intelligence agencies," Libertarian Party Executive Director Carla Howell.
I would agree with that even if I wasn't a Libertarian.
Just because Snowden quit high school and got a GED doesn't mean he is incapable of being a computer whiz-bang or whatever. You yourself have lectured on here that education is not an indicator of success. I read that he was discharged from the Army due to breaking both legs in some sort of training evolution, that doesn't make him a problem or a failure. Anyway I really don't intend to be the guy's defender, I don't know hardly anything about him. I'm just saying don't spin things.
You are absolutely correct in that the laws written to cover contingencies usually just create more opportunities for manipulation. That's what is so great about the Original Constitution and the first 10 amendments. The NSA has for years been trying to re-define the 4th amendment, but it endures and is pretty straightforward to me.
Dave, We agree about 98% actually however for clarification;
My statement, in it's entirety was "My concern goes way beyond just this issue, here we have a High School Drop out, who failed to complete his initial enlistment in the Army, beginning his career as a security guard at the NSA moving up to be an IT security specialist at the Geneva Embassy under diplomatic cover, moving on to a private security from which he was fired for an ethical violation, which in fact is a security violation then two years later being hired by another contractor and granted another security clearance and in less than three months be privy to the most secret of our national intelligence organizations. He should have never received the second clearance at all, and even the first one was questionable at best."
It was not a reference to his ability, rather a question as to his eligibility to obtain his second security clearance, His dropping out of the High School and His failure to complete his enlistment in themselves are not extraordinary to me, rather those followed by a succession of events that in them selves should have been flags in his quest for the second clearance and access I find not only questionable but appalling at the least.
When I was a battalion, regimental or division S-2 or G-2 chief, those would have not only been flags for me but clear warnings
"Snowden is only a 'traitor' to people who believe your allegiance as an American should be to the government, not the constitution." -Kirsten Powers via Twitter
Actually what I was referring to was "While much can be garnered by a single email address, wire taping is not one of them I am very tech savvy, I personally can do a lot of things through my laptop but that is an incredible stretch a high school drop out like him could do what he says."
#15 news flash ? what makes you an expert on what goes on in Geneva? I don't care if you worked there for 20 years, things can still go on that you have no idea of....sorry
#22your quote was edited for your argument,i watched a video of it and it had quite a bit more in it.....sorry
Why Mr. Spaulding would a CIA station in Geneva Switzerland be involved in domestic intelligence in the US? No I am not an exert in what goes on in Geneva, I am not even an Intelligence expert of modern time
Also his posting in Geneva was in 2007 -- Why is he in China, Of all places?
And what you gleam from the video is all well and good, I did paraphrase yes
I am not defending the program, not at all... the NSA should not be involved in Domestic intelligence at all, period, my question are Snowden's motives, and although not an expert, several things he has said so far lead me to believe there is quite a bit of exaggerating going on.
Read some place yesterday the observation that if you create a system where people can abuse authority, they will abuse authority. The Patriot Act did that and now it's bearing the fruit critics long predicted it would.
howard, I couldn't agree more....and we keep giving the police more authority, more military trainging , more military hardware, more military weapons.....sad day when in America, I am more afraid of the government and police than any terrorist....
I don't know snowdown but I love the guy.....sometimes the truth hurts....must the government now kill the messenger? you bet they do , just like they killed the Russian friend of the so called boston bombers....
Probably a bit of both.
Probably a bit of both.
Too soon to tell.
Too soon to tell.
The complete secrecy and
The complete secrecy and total lack of accountability to the people of the USA, not to mention disregard for the sanctity of the original 10 amendments to our US Constitution is disgusting and appalling. Thank God for Edward Snowden, he is a brave man, the Patrick Henry of our time. The powers that be in the intelligence gathering area of our government will seek to ruin him or worse for doing this. Note: I use the term "Our government" quite loosely.
"When the American people
"When the American people find out how their government has secretly interpreted the Patriot Act, they are going to be stunned, and they are going to be angry … many members of Congress have no idea how the law is being secretly interpreted by the executive branch, because that interpretation is classified. It's almost as if there were two Patriot Acts, and many members of Congress have not read the one that matters."
Sen. Ron Wyden, (D) Oregon - 2011
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-secu…
Whats the difference of your
Whats the difference of your government going door to door or snooping thru your personal computer..I think he is a great public servant to bring all this to light and show how wide spread the government reach has become...
Having spent most of my
Having spent most of my Marine Corps Career in Intelligence, I have mixed feelings about this entire affair. As to whether Snowden is a Hero or Traitor, I say he is a little of both.
1) He, even as a civilian contractor took an oath as did I regarding what he can publically say. I hold that oath sacred.
2) There are channels through Congress that are well known to people in the Intelligence community to bring illegalities and such to light through congress.
That said, the data mining of domestic information by the NSA is clearly way out of the scope of the NSA mission as that is specific to foreign communications.
What is clear here, is that the spirit of the Patriot Act has not been followed, even it's author in recent days has stated that this operation goes way beyond the intended scope of the law.
That said, Snowden was fired by the company contracted on June 1st 2010 for a lack of ethics and risky behavior, something that is being left out of this story. He is no saint, and it is apparent that he may not be doing this for such noble reasons as are being portrayed.
To be clear, I am strongly concerned about how the Patriot Act is being misused and have grave concerns about The Prism Project in particular. But I am in no way ready to paint this guy a Hero, and the violation of his oath does in fact, make him a traitor. While he did in fact reveal information that leads me to question the judgment and motives of many officials in the administration, he also is in CHINA right now where he potentially can reveal substantial and legitimate parts of our National Intelligence Infrastructure.. These two do not wash with me.
Mark, I, too, believe that
Mark, I, too, believe that the (gov't) has gone too far. One of the problems is the wording of these (Laws?/Acts?). Sure, the 'author' of the ACT says it goes beyond the idea behind it. Well, then, he wasn't a very good author, was he?
It's like a contract. If you don't put into writing some way to 'control' ALL contingincies, don't cry 'It's not how we wanted it to be".
Somewhere in that document, there SHOULD HAVE BEEN a way to 'control' things.
As for Snowden, I'll leave judgement up to others much more knowledgeble than me.
So far he has given no hard
So far he has given no hard proof other than verbal. Be real careful what he claims to know until he shows hard evidence.
Ed there is NO LAW that can
Ed there is NO LAW that can be crafted to 100% cover all contingencies.
There is NO LAW that can be crafted to eliminate murder
There is NO LAW that is perfect and not subject to future amendment and change.
It is impossible to craft the perfect law
Again, I am beginning to see
Again, I am beginning to see this guy more and more as an opportunist.
As I previously stated, he was fired from a contractor that had him working for the CIA on June 1st 2010
He began communicating with the reporter from the guardian in February, strangely he wasn't hired by the company working for the NSA until April. Two months after he first met with the reporter, and two months PRIOR to him having access to the information he has been releasing.
He is NO FRIGGIN HERO
His case might have been
His case might have been better if he had not picked China to run away to.
Do you think, Mark that maybe
Do you think, Mark that maybe the media at the behest of our esteemed President and the intelligence community could possibly be helping with a smear campaign against this guy? I sure don't trust them. Why else would he have gone to a British news company to begin with? As for your assertion about his violating his security clearance oath, Does that include un-constitutional activities? Saying that there are avenues to report illegalities is kinda disingenuous, you know full well that all government bureaucracies have their own political elements inside them and this would have gone nowhere and he would have been buried and discredited and tossed out. The element of surprise was the only way to get this out in the open. He has also said, if you watch the video interview with Glen Greenwald that he is not disclosing anything that harms national security or puts lives at risk. Contrary to to the bloviations of the NSA, CIA, Obama et al.
Just because he has a
Just because he has a security clearence does not mean he had any access to that level of information. I highly doubt his level of clearence would give him access to the info he claims to know, unless he is being fed info by another person.
Not in this case Dave, Hire
Not in this case Dave, Hire and fire dates are indisputable.
Trust me when I say I am no fan of our President, especially on matters of constitutional rights. I have a ton of indiscretions I am just dying for to enter the fray here.
But with regard to Snowden, ask your self two questions,
1) Why is he in China when China is clearly engaged in a sort of cyber skirmish with us now.
Snowden is quoted as saying he chose Hong Kong because it has a "spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent"
Hong Kong is controlled by CHINA, the same CHINA that drove tanks over young protesters a few short years ago.
2) Snowden was said to have worked on IT security for the CIA and by 2007 was stationed with diplomatic cover in Geneva, responsible for maintaining computer network security.
"Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the world," he says. "I realized that I was part of something that was doing far more harm than good."
NEWS FLASH, the CIA office in GENEVA deals solely with foreign intelligence in Europe Yet he was fired for "Ethical Violations" meaning he was poking his nose were it didn't belong in Intelligence Speak.
Frankly Dave, I have serious
Frankly Dave, I have serious doubts about him having access to much of what he claims, He said in that video interview, " I can wire tap anyone I want at any time" There is no way a computer geek in the NSA would be granted that kind of access unchecked. No way.
Mark: I would take exception
Mark: I would take exception to (only) one part of your reply (after I concede to most of it)
1) There is NO LAW that can be crafted to eliminate murder. - Agreed!
2) There is NO LAW that is perfect and not subject to future amendment and change. - Agreed!
3) It is impossible to craft the perfect law - Agreed! "Perfect" is in the eyes of the perceiver - What one person thinks is 'perfect' may be seen by another as totally screwed-up.
But, I do think that if a law is written with "NO EXCEPTIONS ALLOWED", then it would mean just that.
For example (a dumb example, but it should suffice for this disagreement):
A law is written that says "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are you legally allowed to surpass 50mph on this certain stretch of highway".
Mark, are you able to come up with ANY way that you could surpass 50mph on that stretch of highway, without breaking THAT law? Maybe your accelerator stuck, and you had no way of slowing down. Still, you DID break that law. Maybe a tornado pushed you down that certain stretch at 51+mph. Out of your control? Sure it was. But, you DID STILL break THAT law. You surpassed 50mph.
Now, the cop might not cite you for speeding. And, even if he does, you probably would get the judge or jury to let you off. But, as the law is WRITTEN, you broke it.
I still see it as how the words IN the law are written. That's all I was saying. Now, it's possible that you could change my thinking, but you're gonna have to really work hard at it. I'd like to hear of any way you could surpass 50mph down that fictitous highway without breaking that law.
Interesting way of looking at
Interesting way of looking at things Ed,
In my day, yes I agree that
In my day, yes I agree that some contracted computer geek would not have unfettered access like he says. No possible way. But that was a long time ago and things are much different now. You've been out for a while too, I gather. Technology is far and away nothing like i would even recognize I surmise. And I think we both can relate instances of over-stepping being considered "initiative" if the right brown-noser did it. (That was never me, as you may have guessed)
"Ed there is NO LAW that can
"Ed there is NO LAW that can be crafted to 100% cover all contingencies."
That's a good argument against creating new laws, as I see it.
I don't find the dates terribly convincing ... people contact me all the time just to contact me ... part of how online news works now. Clearly, Snowden has prior political convictions that mesh well with Greenwald's (I've been more or less following Greenwald since his early blogging days.) So I find reading much into contact dates pretty unconvincing.
He may be overstating his access ... but he is in IT, so depending on network configuration, he could potentially go beyond the typical security clearance protocol of "need to know."
Whether flawed or not, whistle blowers do act as a check against unchecked government power. And if I were in his position, I wouldn't go to Congress. Do you trust Congress? Really? They're the ones that created this situation in the first place.
In the last 10 years or so, I
In the last 10 years or so, I have read much about how much more access and latitude contractors have been allowed. It may be unintentional, but it is happening.
That to me Dave is more of a
That to me Dave is more of a problem in itself, beyond what info the government should gather and should not. Even very legitimate intelligence info being accessed by anyone without the Preverbal 'Need To Know' is troublesome.
The tail end of my career I worked on the actual transition from paper files and micro fiche to the computer based index, much of what is happening since the Bradley Manning affair and this guy Snowden were our major security concerns at that time.
My concern goes way beyond just this issue, here we have a High School Drop out, who failed to complete his initial enlistment in the Army, beginning his career as a security guard at the NSA moving up to be an IT security specialist at the Geneva Embassy under diplomatic cover, moving on to a private security from which he was fired for an ethical violation, which in fact is a security violation then two years later being hired by another contractor and granted another security clearance and in less than three months be privy to the most secret of our national intelligence organizations. He should have never received the second clearance at all, and even the first one was questionable at best.
One thing that really struck me as odd that Snowden said was. " I in my position could secretly wire tap anyone including the President if I had his email address from his laptop."
That is bullshit, While much can be garnered by a single email address, wire taping is not one of them I am very tech savvy, I personally can do a lot of things through my laptop but that is an incredible stretch a high school drop out like him could do what he says.
This guy isn't real, he is talking out his ass, and the scary part is that the little access he probably did have does not match up with the capabilities that he suggest.
Howard, the dates are very significant, I blame not the reporter, but what we used to refer to jokingly in the Corps as my 'Keen Analytical Mind' these dates indicate to me that Snowden was embarking on a glory hunt, not a legitimate whistle blower, but a quest for fame (Or infamy] and fortune
On the converse side, if he had the access he claims, then this administration has totally thrown away any responsible vetting for security clearance which is way more troubling to me than the Data Mining itself.
I agree with you totally,
I agree with you totally, that there are too many laws, most of them simply feel good laws in the first place.
But that does not preclude the need for specific laws to address specific issues, it just means that laws should be well vetted before passing.
The problem we have with laws passed by congress in my opinion is that in the quest to cover every contingency, our legislators create 1200 page monsters that in themselves create more contingencies.
I don't disagree with you
I don't disagree with you Mark. The power and access being given to private contractors is a huge problem. That does not BTW mean I want a bigger security apparatus. As a Libertarian I support the national party's position.
"We are the only party that has called for scrapping the National Defense Authorization Act, the Patriot Act, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and the downsizing of all intelligence agencies," Libertarian Party Executive Director Carla Howell.
I would agree with that even if I wasn't a Libertarian.
Just because Snowden quit high school and got a GED doesn't mean he is incapable of being a computer whiz-bang or whatever. You yourself have lectured on here that education is not an indicator of success. I read that he was discharged from the Army due to breaking both legs in some sort of training evolution, that doesn't make him a problem or a failure. Anyway I really don't intend to be the guy's defender, I don't know hardly anything about him. I'm just saying don't spin things.
You are absolutely correct in that the laws written to cover contingencies usually just create more opportunities for manipulation. That's what is so great about the Original Constitution and the first 10 amendments. The NSA has for years been trying to re-define the 4th amendment, but it endures and is pretty straightforward to me.
Dave, We agree about 98%
Dave, We agree about 98% actually however for clarification;
My statement, in it's entirety was "My concern goes way beyond just this issue, here we have a High School Drop out, who failed to complete his initial enlistment in the Army, beginning his career as a security guard at the NSA moving up to be an IT security specialist at the Geneva Embassy under diplomatic cover, moving on to a private security from which he was fired for an ethical violation, which in fact is a security violation then two years later being hired by another contractor and granted another security clearance and in less than three months be privy to the most secret of our national intelligence organizations. He should have never received the second clearance at all, and even the first one was questionable at best."
It was not a reference to his ability, rather a question as to his eligibility to obtain his second security clearance, His dropping out of the High School and His failure to complete his enlistment in themselves are not extraordinary to me, rather those followed by a succession of events that in them selves should have been flags in his quest for the second clearance and access I find not only questionable but appalling at the least.
When I was a battalion, regimental or division S-2 or G-2 chief, those would have not only been flags for me but clear warnings
"Snowden is only a 'traitor'
"Snowden is only a 'traitor' to people who believe your allegiance as an American should be to the government, not the constitution." -Kirsten Powers via Twitter
I can't disagree with that.
Actually what I was referring
Actually what I was referring to was "While much can be garnered by a single email address, wire taping is not one of them I am very tech savvy, I personally can do a lot of things through my laptop but that is an incredible stretch a high school drop out like him could do what he says."
But, I'm done with this.
I was overzealous on that
I was overzealous on that statement, you are right, I am done with this aspect of it as well
#15 news flash ? what makes
#15 news flash ? what makes you an expert on what goes on in Geneva? I don't care if you worked there for 20 years, things can still go on that you have no idea of....sorry
#22your quote was edited for your argument,i watched a video of it and it had quite a bit more in it.....sorry
Why Mr. Spaulding would a CIA
Why Mr. Spaulding would a CIA station in Geneva Switzerland be involved in domestic intelligence in the US? No I am not an exert in what goes on in Geneva, I am not even an Intelligence expert of modern time
Also his posting in Geneva was in 2007 -- Why is he in China, Of all places?
And what you gleam from the video is all well and good, I did paraphrase yes
I am not defending the program, not at all... the NSA should not be involved in Domestic intelligence at all, period, my question are Snowden's motives, and although not an expert, several things he has said so far lead me to believe there is quite a bit of exaggerating going on.
That is my opinion, and I am sticking to it.
Nice quote from Kirsten
Nice quote from Kirsten Powers, JoAnne.
Read some place yesterday the observation that if you create a system where people can abuse authority, they will abuse authority. The Patriot Act did that and now it's bearing the fruit critics long predicted it would.
howard, I couldn't agree
howard, I couldn't agree more....and we keep giving the police more authority, more military trainging , more military hardware, more military weapons.....sad day when in America, I am more afraid of the government and police than any terrorist....
I don't know snowdown but I love the guy.....sometimes the truth hurts....must the government now kill the messenger? you bet they do , just like they killed the Russian friend of the so called boston bombers....