Crews under the supervision of Derrick Monument put in place today a total of 21 tons of polished black granite from India to serve as the new Genesee County memorial to the men and women who gave their lives in service to their country.
The dedication ceremony will be at 11 a.m., May 17, corner of Washington and Bank, Batavia.
The construction of the monument today caps a years-long effort by local veterans to replace the memorial that was displaced when UMMC added on its surgical wing.
"I don't even know if I can put it into words," said local veteran leader Jim Neider when asked what it was like to watch the monument being put in place. "We've been working on it for four and half years. We've been collecting donations for four years. It's the culmination of all those donations and all that hard work. To me, it's like Christmas."
The actual monument costs $125,000. With lighting and landscaping and other expenses, there are more expenses, but a total of $150,000 was raised for the project.
The monument contains the names of local U.S. service members who died during World War I, World War II, Korea and Vietnam.
The name plates from the old memorial are buried in a spot in front of the monument, marked by tiles that donors were able to purchase and have engraved with their own message.
Local veterans designed the monument and Derrick Monument helped complete the design and plan the construction. While the granite came from India, all of the diamond-tipped engraving was done in Vermont.
Last Saturday, crews poured 56,000 pounds of concrete to create the monument's base.
Max Rapone and Alex Rood passed by the monument on their way home from school this afternoon and stopped to take a closer look. Asked what they thought, Max gave it a thumbs up and said "awesome."
Neider and Dave Carlsen, president of Derrick Monument, agreed it's a beautiful piece of work.
Carlsen praised the work of his design staff, Jackie Earhardt and Ryan McClurg.
"Hats off to the committee for such a nice selection," Carlsen said. "We're certainly proud to be a part of it."
Top photo: Wayne Devoid, Jim Neider, Dave Carlsen, Rick Devoid, and Cassie Carlsen.
What about the service
What about the service members that that died in the conflicts prior to WWI , and the ones that died in conflicts after Vietnam ? Why are they not being memorialized ? Are they not just as deserving as the others ? Did they not give their lives as well ?
If a brand new memorial was made , why were they not included ?
Can't answer your question
Can't answer your question about war dead predating WWI but I am certainly hoping that it is expandable to include Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan and future conflicts
I wonder why the granite had
I wonder why the granite had to come from India. Couldn't find any in the whole USA? And I do have a concern with it's placement in such close proximity to one of the streets we so often see represented here in police reports. We're seeing so much disrespect in the cemetaries lately. I sure hope it stays nice, but I don't hold out a lot of hope for this beautiful memorial to remain unscathed.
Here's a directory of the
Here's a directory of the world's black granite quarries.
http://www.stonecontact.com/black-granite-quarries
There's one in the US, in PA even, but that tells us nothing of the quality, the size of quality rocks that can be extracted, the type of slabs produced, nor the price.
There are 15 quarries in India, 23 in China ... so it could have been worse, it could have come from China.
I'm no expert on granite, but I imagine there are different grades, and some quarries produce better grades.
I agree Lori and understand
I agree Lori and understand what Howard is saying. However I think this is just another example of outsourcing and going with the cheapest bidder rather than grade and quality. It looks awesome but, what ashame that our heroes names are placed upon a foreign object. I guess "Made in the USA" holds no value anymore.
Who knows Ricky, it is
Who knows Ricky, it is amazing that, they only recognize a selected few. Is the Vietnam Conflict recognized. If so, why not Korean War? What about the Revolutionary War which formed this country? I guess the Honor Roll doesn't considered Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom or Enduring Freedom honorable? Or they just ran out of money to incorporate them.
Korea is there. Got a list of
Korea is there.
Got a list of Genesee County residents who died in Desert Storm? Iraq? Afghanistan? Know of any?
Did you volunteer on the committee to help make this happen before criticizing their decisions?
This is an all volunteer effort by veterans who have given countless hours to this community and to their fellow veterans in this community. They show up for every veterans event in this county no matter what. They're active in their posts and they volunteer for other veterans services. Is that who you want to second-guess and criticize without having participated yourself or having all the facts?
I don't know why there aren't pre-WWI names. My guess is there's a good explanation. And before criticizing whether names after Vietnam should be included, perhaps you should know whether there are any names to include. I don't. Do you? I offered some information on why perhaps stone from India was selected, but I really don't know. Do you? What facts to you have to substantiate any criticism? Or are you just taking pot shots? Me, knowing the veterans involved and what dedicated, patriotic Americans they are, I kind of trust their judgment.
Here's what the internet has
Here's what the internet has to say about military deaths from Genesee County post-Vietnam.
According to the Iraq Coalition Casualty Count (http://icasualties.org/Iraq/ByState.aspx), there weren't any deaths in Iraq or Afghanistan from Genesee County.
According to a site on deaths from the Gulf War, there was one casualty from Genesee County: Scott Nolie Vigrass was from Batavia and died in Saudi Arabia on December 9, 1990. (http://gulf-war-casualties.findthebest.com/l/26/Scott-Nolie-Vigrass)
I have absolutely no opinion on where granite came from or where the monument is located, and I make no claims that the websites I checked are reliable.
This was all put together by
This was all put together by a volunteer group of veterans and veterans group. They also accepted help from non veterans They made the decision what would be there.
How many who do not like the result, and are veterans, volunteered to help? How many of you belong to the VFW or American Legion, or VVA?
And there is nothing stopping any of you from putting up monuments to the other wars. Go out raising money, finding a place for it, do the research and build it.
The Revolutionary War
The Revolutionary War predates the establishment of Genesee County by over 20 years. Accurate record keeping from the era probably makes it difficult to geographically place those who died in that war.
I visited this Memorial
I visited this Memorial yesterday. I will just say that I feel very proud to live in a City that recognizes "our own" who gave their lives for us to live in a country and argue with one another, openly criticize our government, disagree with our neighbor and still be friendly with them, pray to one God or another, or not at all, that recognizes all human life to be precious, valuable, and free, and one that stands universally for civil rights and human rights.
In fact, the folks etched into that memorial even died for your right to disagree with the very materials that THEIR memorial would be made of. So if nothing else...be thankful for that.
It's good to remember, honor,
It's good to remember, honor, and learn from the past. And let's hope with those lessons learned, there'll be no need for future additions to this monument.
Thank you Howard I could not
Thank you Howard I could not tell from these pictures that Korea is on there. Saw WWI and WWII clearly. Nor do I doubt the patroitism of those who constructed the idea and assembly the wall. As far as volunteering goes, one would and should have been informed about such, before they can volunteer if, the information was not advertise correctly or not widely distribute then one would not have been able to volunteer. I belong to the American Legion and know many in the VFW but, never held mention about the Genesee County Honor Roll Memorial Wall. I am also, out of the Genesee County 5-6 days a week and do not always hear of local events.
My criticism is visible daily in such things as manufacturing, textiles, etc.... American Veterans Traveling Tribute requires that any t-shirts develop for their memorial is place on a t-shirt "Made in the USA." So, during our search we found some. The average price differences in t-shirts made in the USA or other countries is anywhere from $3-$8 dollars. BTW we went with the higher cost "Made in the USA" t-shirts which also turned out a lot better than the foreign made t-shirts they sent us by accident. Look at our Olympic athletes uniforms, they were not made in America but, China. Why do you thing that was? You been in the military. The government and business go with the cheaper cost. Unfortunately American products seem to carry a higher value due to higher labor and material cost.
Look I am not saying the tribute is bad or horrible. I do think it looks awesome and beautiful but, I am disappointed in the granite being from India and not here. That is my stance and I will proudly stand by it. As far as other wars on the wall go, why should a Genesee County Veteran have to died to be recognized or remembered by Genesee County. Even Wal-Mart has local veterans on their wall. Even if, none had died in a certain conflict, a small dedication for all veterans' contribution should have been.
Hello Marc, no one is agruing
Hello Marc, no one is agruing that, Genesee County is recognizing our own veterans who gave their life defending this country.
There is another comment where someone stated, (Which I find insulting); "It should not matter where the material came from." If, that is the case then why did Americans get upset when we found out that, China made our Olympic Uniforms. Part of our country's downfall is we outsource our industry.
My view is this, why put our defenders' name on an foreign object rather than on an American made product. The last I knew I served to defend and protect "MY COUNTRY and MY FELLOW AMERICANS!" As a 23 years Veteran/Retiree, I rather have my name etched on American Pride rather than a foreign object from a nation who could care less either way.
It is funny how we tend to forget about the slave laborers used by other countries. For those who think it should not matter where the material comes from, maybe you should think again.
MR. Roach, when, where and
MR. Roach, when, where and how often was the request for volunteers put out? I belong to the American Legion and will be joining the VFW. I have heard nothing about this Wall through the Legion nor my friends who are in the VFW. Was it put on the Batavian? If so, was it more than one time? My issues is this not so much what wars are on this wall but, with the place where the material came from. As I stated in the above comment, as a 23 years Veteran/Retiree, I rather have my name etched on an object which was from and produced in the nation I defended and protected for 23 years. I consider this very disrespectful in the sense that, instead of using material from our own nation and we outsource to foreign nation. Which means once again we invested into another nation rather than our own.
I remember them asking a few
I remember them asking a few years ago, when this was first proposed. That was when the hospital announced their expansion. This project did not happen overnight.
As a 32 year veteran/retiree, I don't care where the stone came from. I only want it to be the best
Yes this was a county as far
Yes this was a county as far back as 1683 it just wasnt organized as Genesee County see narrative below.
Colonial and revolutionary era
When counties were established in New York State in 1683, the present Genesee County was part of Albany County. This was an enormous county, including the northern part of New York State as well as all of the present State of Vermont and, in theory, extending westward to the Pacific Ocean. On March 12, 1772, what was left of Albany County was split into three parts, one remaining under the name Albany County. One of the other pieces, Tryon County, contained the western portion (and thus, since no western boundary was specified, theoretically still extended west to the Pacific). In 1784 Tryon County was renamed as Montgomery County. Around this time, the Pennsylvania Colony and the Massachusetts Bay Colony also claimed the territory as their own, but New York did not enforce its territorial claim. In 1789 Ontario County was split off from Montgomery as a result of the Phelps and Gorham Purchase. Again, the county theoretically extended west to the Pacific Ocean.
New York State[edit]
It was not until the Holland Purchase of 1793 that Western New York was officially enforced as the territory of New York State. Land in the region was sold through the Holland Land Company's office in Batavia, starting in 1801. All of the land in Western New York was in the newly created Genesee County, and all of that was in the single town of Batavia.
Genesee County was created by a partition of 7,100 square miles (18,000 km2) of land from Ontario County. The County was not fully organized so it remained under the supervision of Ontario County until it achieved full organization and separation during March 1803.[6]
On April 7, 1806, Genesee’s area was reduced to 5,550 square miles (14,400 km2) due to a partition that created Allegany County.[7] On March 8, 1808, Genesee’s area was again reduced, this time to 1,650 square miles (4,300 km2) due to a partition that created Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, and Niagara Counties.[8] On February 23, 1821, Genesee’s area was again reduced, this time to 1,450 square miles (3,800 km2) due a complex partition that produced Livingston[9] and Monroe Counties.[10] On April 15, 1825, another partition reduced Genesee’s area to 1,030 square miles (2,700 km2) in the creation of Orleans County.[11][12] On May 1, 1826, the Orleans partition was again surveyed, with 10 square miles (26 km2) of land along the western half of the Orleans/Genesee border returned to Genesee.[13] On March 19, 1841, Genesee’s area was again reduced, this time to the 500 square miles (1,300 km2) it remains to this day due to the partitioning to create Wyoming County.[14]
During most of the Revolutionary war the only europeans in the genesee valley were the ones that survived capture by the Seneca Tribes that lived here, and were adopted by them. Ebeneezer Allan and Mary Jemision come to mind in that regard.
The earliest war that anyone could have claimed to be living here in what is now Genesee County is the War of 1812. That however doesn't bar people who were veterans of the Revolutionary War that settled here after Genesee County was established from being recognized by the War Memorial does it?
I think I have an answer on
I think I have an answer on why the stone is from India. The Vietnam Wall stone also came from India. The stone for that memorial was chosen from that quarry because it exhibits exceptionally high reflective properties when polished. It is also pure black, with slight marbling. By contrast, the black granite available from PA, the only source of black granite in the USA, is heavy with white marbling, to the point they use it as a selling point of their granite. The one source in Canada is similarly marbled. Simply put, if you want a clean black reflective stone, it simply does not exist in North American quarries.
I don't see anyone stopping
I don't see anyone stopping anyone else from raising money to have a monument to the War of 1812, the Indian Wars, The Mexican War, the Civil War or the Spanish American War. Go do it if you feel that strongly about it.
This monument was the work of a group of private citizens who raised the money and did the work. If they decided they wanted just this, so what?
Well first of all no one has
Well first of all no one has proven that this granite is the best in world just that it is good quality and one of the few places to get it. Did they go to PA to view the quality of granite there? I have been told I am only assuming that cost and hiring the lowest bidder was how this was obtained from India but, no one is denying such either. I am sure that will change after this comment. I do know granite is not cheap here. Second it should matter where comes from and who is the one collecting it. So, just keeping outsourcing and investing in another country rather than your own. (AKA. Liberal State of Mind) Let me ask you this, if the best came from China would you still feel the same? I mean lets face facts, slave laborer is abundant there. Someone being forced and abused to gather your precious granite doesn't bother you? Just so we are clear I am not stating this granite came from China. I am just pointing out that you do not care where the stone came from.
A few years this was annouced? Yet, I still have not heard or been told about it. I have not seen any request for volunteers or meetings to discuss it. Heck John, why haven't you given us Veterans a friendly reminder to help? I mean this is to honor us Veterans. I do not remember seeing any notices at the American Legion asking for suggestion or meeting either.
Like I stated Sir, I am not arguing the Patroitism of the volunteers or organizers. I am not arguing about the dedication of this Memorial. It is a memorial to represent our fallen so, why not ensure that, it was forged from America by American blood? Allowing America Pride to be felt by those Americans who could of collected this granite in Pennsylvania. Just like the steel workers who molded and welded the scrap metal of the Twin Towers to build the USS New York?
Mr Woodworth, My point is
Mr Woodworth,
My point is that you did not put any money into this, you did not work on it or for it. The fact that you did not know about this over the past few years is too bad, but also immaterial. In my opinion only, your complaint is petty. If this had been a publicly funded project or on public land, then you might have a case. But this was all private.
This was all done by a non profit, private group of veterans and placed on private property. Show up at the dedication and ask the organizers in person about the stone if where the stone came from bothers you so much. Take a Personal Day if needed.
John, the fact that you
John, the fact that you didn't know about this is on you. It was well publicized in The Batavian, the Daily and WBTA right from the beginning. We covered it when it was announced, we covered some fundraising milestones, we covered it when the veterans went to the City Council asking for a donation, we covered it when the markers from the former memorial were buried at the new location in a solemn ceremony. It would also be impossible to be active in any of the local veterans organizations and not know about this effort.
Pretty much, as a veteran, you would have to be living under a rock not to know this effort has been ongoing for the past four years.
"Did they go to PA to view the quality of granite there?" Did you offer to pay for such a trip? If not, who should have paid for it? If the professionals who were involved in this process -- and there were a couple of people quite expert in this field involved -- already had the knowledge necessary to make a recommendation on quality, you think there should have been added expense to try and override their expertise?
So we shouldn't buy stuff from India? Should India not buy stuff from us?
"I mean this is to honor us Veterans."
No, it does not honor "us veterans," no more than Memorial Day honors "us veterans." It honors those who gave their life in service to their country. Since you're not dead and I'm not dead, it doesn't recognize or honor or even mention your or my military service.
It's really a slap in the face to a group of fellow veterans whom you REFUSED to help in the project (refused because you have EVERY OPPORTUNITY to know about the project but yet ignored it) and now criticize their decisions after the fact when you don't even have all the information. You have no idea what the decision making process was, the whys or the facts that went into it, yet you feel free to publicly lambast these fine men who volunteered their time and effort to make this project a reality. That really bugs me because I know these guys and I know how much they care about the our fellow veterans and how dedicated they are to recognizing the service and sacrifice of our war dead.
::slow clap::
::slow clap::
I don't see where John W.
I don't see where John W. lambasted anyone! Since we don't know how the process went to determine where this marble was purchased, we're all just guessing.
My money is on a bet that a majority of those people listed on the memorial, if given a voice, would rather the marble have come from the USA. It's my opinion, so bashing isn't necessary, thanks.
It's an absolutely beautiful memorial, and it seems that the simple question of why the marble came from India is taking away from that. It honestly was just a question on my part, not a slam.
And it does surprise me Howard, that you of all people don't seem to have even a hint of negativity about the imported marble. You are always quite vocal about how people should buy locally and you support Mom & Pop type stores over the big corporations like Walmart. I would think you would be pro USA products over a product from another country.
Oh, and Jason, your explanation regarding the stone pretty much matching the Vietnam Memorial wall makes perfect sense. And I'll bet you're absolutely right!
Lori, I buy locally whenever
Lori, I buy locally whenever I can, but as we've discussed, the nature of today's economy and our local economy, not everything I need can be acquired locally. There's no local store that sells Nikon DSLRs, for example, so when I need a new camera body or a quality lens, I go to Rowe in Rochester or I buy online (not even Rowe carries everything I need -- they don't, for example, carry (remarkably) the high speed SD cards I use). There's no comparable US manufactured cameras, btw, so to buy cameras I can't shop either locally or domestically.
I always say "shop local first" but I never criticize anybody for going to Walmart (I have to do that sometimes myself) when the local option doesn't exist.
So I get the need to go overseas for some things. I know the people involved in this decision and I trust their dedication, their expertise and their professionalism. I also recognize that the people behind the memorial are volunteers and I believe they're due the respect not being publicly taken to task without any facts to substantiate the criticism.
If you or John did some research and came up with solid facts to refute the decision, I'd listen to that, but in the absence of facts, I find the criticism off base. And I do consider John's ongoing haranguing about it to be lambasting. His position has been repeatedly refuted, yet he keeps coming back to it. That's just piling on criticism of these dedicated volunteers.
If that marble was good
If that marble was good enough for the Vietnam Wall in DC, I am happy with it here.
Personally, I never
Personally, I never criticized anything. I asked a simple question which has since been answered to my satisfaction by Jason.
Everyone has said that the memorial is beautiful, so I don't think that the issue of where the marble was purchased has taken anything away from that.
If you'll only listen to John or I if we "did some research" comes across to me like a child who sticks their fingers in their ears while saying, "la la la la, I'm not listening to you." If a person's opinion can only be validated by research, then this site will go quiet very quickly.
I understand your shop locally viewpoint now, thanks for explaining
I don't think it's
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people who criticize others to have facts to back up their assertions.
That isn't refusing to listen. That's saying opinions not backed by facts are valueless. A person is welcome to express them, but they shouldn't get bent out of shape when confronted with facts or asked to actually substantiate their assertions.
Lori you said... "My money is
Lori you said... "My money is on a bet that a majority of those people listed on the memorial, if given a voice, would rather the marble have come from the USA. It's my opinion, so bashing isn't necessary, thanks."
Well the fact is those people listed cannot and will not voice any opinion at all. They are beyond such concern and any "guesses" as to their opinions seems a bit presumptious and rude. Those that made this decision are their surviving peers and collegues and it seems that they decided it as Memorials are for the living to honor those that died.
China and India are the only places in the world where quanities of black marble exsist to make projects like this. The closest any US marble comes is Georgia where creole marble is found which is white and blue/black like this....
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/hhh.va1298.photos.160207p/
Rude? Oh please.
Rude? Oh please.
Three levels, high up, will
Three levels, high up, will make a great skateboard attraction. Honor roller drops onto wwII speed enhancer and shoot off the WWI into a day of YouTube infamy. PS - does this thing obstruct the view at the intersection? Was any land available on Veterans drive? Next monument will be in Lewis place, dedicated to all those residents there who have rassled with BPD...
I'm aiming for a negative
I'm aiming for a negative ten, so step it up you slackers!
I said negative ten. You
I said negative ten. You can't even hate right, not alone raise decent children. God is great